GDT: 2018 Free Agency: Jay Beagle 4 x 3M, Antoine Roussel 4 x 3.25M, both w/ limited NTCs

[y2kcanucks]

You cant.

All you have to do is look objectively around the league and you will see that for July 1st, the contracts around the league are quite reasonable except for Benning.

2 of the worst 3 contracts signed today are by the Canucks.

I’d say the top worse contracts were given out by the Canucks. Can’t think of one that’s worse.

 

[Cupless44]

Beagle has been a pretty average 4th line replaceable veteran for most of his career. A few good games in a Stanley Cup run and the legend is more than a bit carried away...and vastly over paid.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Relevant tweet.

JMHO as a Caps fan, but Beagle really is good on the PK. He is good along the boards and he will eat up time just battling. If he gets the puck in the offensive zone he will take it to the corner and waste away the opponent's PP that way. It will take 2-3 guys to get the puck back.

He is also excellent in the face-off dot. Caps deployed him late in games if they had a lead, defensive zone draws. He is an asset there. The Caps do not have an adequate replacement for Beagle's specialties.

He is a good dude and a heart and soul guy. Team player. Winner. Good locker room guy. Will earn respect.

That said, we were all shocked someone would give him $3M x 4 well into his 30's. That is not a good contract. Caps had him for $1.75M and those were his prime years. We all thought we could get him for 2y x $1.5M.

 

[VancouverJagger]

No, #1 was no more Eriksson contracts. That reads like “no large contracts”. #5 was about filling up on junk on July 1. You said you expected July 1 to be quiet and that we were all making a big deal for nothing.

If you count the contracts Benning signed today as similar to Eriksson's I dunno......I guess we have to disagree........And the rest I was pretty bang on wasn't I? The board continues to make a big deal about nothing...........so that was pretty bang on I would say.......

 

[VancouverJagger]

Nobody has called them bums. They’ve been referred to 4th liners because that’s what they are. Jim Benning gave $3M per year long-term with NTC’s to a pair of 4th liners.

Actually yes - they were referenced as "bums" and worse on several occasions in this thread...........I'm sure by super successful work-out demons who are fully qualified to call NHL players "bums".............

Full NTC''s? Wow that's insane............

 

[VancouverJagger]

JMHO as a Caps fan, but Beagle really is good on the PK. He is good along the boards and he will eat up time just battling. If he gets the puck in the offensive zone he will take it to the corner and waste away the opponent's PP that way. It will take 2-3 guys to get the puck back.

He is also excellent in the face-off dot. Caps deployed him late in games if they had a lead, defensive zone draws. He is an asset there. The Caps do not have an adequate replacement for Beagle's specialties.

He is a good dude and a heart and soul guy. Team player. Winner. Good locker room guy. Will earn respect.

That said, we were all shocked someone would give him $3M x 4 well into his 30's. That is not a good contract. Caps had him for $1.75M and those were his prime years. We all thought we could get him for 2y x $1.5M.

Thanks for the honest assessment............Yeah this is undoubtedly an overpayment........sounds as if there were a lot of teams bidding for his services though........I would have preferred three years or less however Benning seems to have locked in on this guy as being someone they wanted in the locker room. Really hoping he ages well and doesn't end up being an anchor in his third or fourth year......

 

[MikeK]

I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me April fools... only it's July and the jokes on us.

 

[Cupless44]

We need to be able to have two conversations:
1. The players signed will help the team in the short term (1-2 years).
2. The signings, both $$$ and term, will hurt the team in the long term (3 to 4 years).

Both of these can be true.

In the case of the last 2 seasons worth of UFA signings like Gagner and Eriksson #1 does not apply. They both sucked from the get go. Need convincing this will be different given the pro scouting track record of Benning's group.

 

[Lindgren]

We need to be able to have two conversations:
1. The players signed will help the team in the short term (1-2 years).
2. The signings, both $$$ and term, will hurt the team in the long term (3 to 4 years).

Both of these can be true.

For the sake of argument, if I accept both of these as true, I think that the second outweighs the first. Being better in the short term isn't important for the Canucks, but the long term is.

But I actually don't believe #1 is true. That's not to say that the players are bad, but, rather, that they're not what the team needs. Beagle in particular, as analysts on CanucksArmy and Pass it to Bulis argued, is a redundant asset; the team already has a centre whose only effective role is strictly defensive. With those players in the line-up, the scoring problems are going to worsen.

The team has replaced Daniel, Henrik, and Vanek with Roussel, Beagle, and Schaller, none of whom has the skill to play with and help develop any of the incoming younger players. In the short term, the Canucks would have been better off doing absolutely nothing.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Thanks for the honest assessment............Yeah this is undoubtedly an overpayment........sounds as if there were a lot of teams bidding for his services though........I would have preferred three years or less however Benning seems to have locked in on this guy as being someone they wanted in the locker room. Really hoping he ages well and doesn't end up being an anchor in his third or fourth year......

IMO Beagle is a good candidate to age well.

He seemingly takes good care of himself. He doesn't have ultra high minutes played. He doesn't play a crazy physical game. He's stayed relatively healthy over the years, and he doesn't seem to have lost a step yet.

 

[racerjoe]

So if I can parse the steaming pile that is our roster, it seems to look something like this:

Line 1 aka “the elite kids”

Baertschi Horvat Boeser

Line 2 aka “the learners + the Franchise”

Leipsic Sutter Pettersson

Line 3 aka “the garbage we can’t trade away”

Granlund Gagner Eriksson

Line 4 aka “the elite mentorpede”

Roussel Beagle Schaller



The leftovers:

Goldobin - can’t go to Utica
Virtanen - can’t really go to Utica
Motte - can go to Utica
Gaunce - can’t go to Utica

Also assumes Gaudette and Dahlen head down to Utica for the upcoming season.

Am I forgetting anyone? Seems like we need to trade at least 2 players or else block Goldobin and Virtanen for the upcoming year. Most likely candidates seem to be Granlund and probably Goldobin to be shipped out.

Don’t forget we are supposedly in the process of re-upping Archie... or the logjam of crap on d, but that somehow is a lesser issue, as is our goaltending.

 

[iceburg]

For the sake of argument, if I accept both of these as true, I think that the second outweighs the first. Being better in the short term isn't important for the Canucks, but the long term is.

But I actually don't believe #1 is true. That's not to say that the players are bad, but, rather, that they're not what the team needs. Beagle in particular, as analysts on CanucksArmy and Pass it to Bulis argued, is a redundant asset; the team already has a centre whose only effective role is strictly defensive. With those players in the line-up, the scoring problems are going to worsen.

The team has replaced Daniel, Henrik, and Vanek with Roussel, Beagle, and Schaller, none of whom has the skill to play with and help develop any of the incoming younger players. In the short term, the Canucks would have been better off doing absolutely nothing.

This is one area where I think I agree with Benning (almost typed Gillis!!). If he's to be believed, Gaudette will be given more of an offensive C role while he learns the nuances of the best league in the world. As such, bringing in an offensive center would stunt his growth. In order to have this flexibility Benning needed to have two defensive centres he could rely on - Sutter and Beagle. Horvat is great but he is still learning the 200 ft game and will be counted on to be anchor the scoring line with Boeser, at least for this year.
What could derail this in a hurry is if Green doesn't think Gaudette is ready and Sutter gets a bunch of O-zone starts.
Let's face it, the team is going to struggle to score goals this year, regardless. They will get a top 10 pick in the 2019 draft. This year should be all about giving the young guys opportunities to build confidence so that they are ready to take on bigger roles in 2019/20. In this context, I don't mind Beagle and Sutter in the line-up. Beyond that is a different discussion.

 

[Lindgren]

This is one area where I think I agree with Benning (almost typed Gillis!!). If he's to be believed, Gaudette will be given more of an offensive C role while he learns the nuances of the best league in the world. As such, bringing in an offensive center would stunt his growth. In order to have this flexibility Benning needed to have two defensive centres he could rely on - Sutter and Beagle. Horvat is great but he is still learning the 200 ft game and will be counted on to be anchor the scoring line with Boeser, at least for this year.
What could derail this in a hurry is if Green doesn't think Gaudette is ready and Sutter gets a bunch of O-zone starts.
Let's face it, the team is going to struggle to score goals this year, regardless. They will get a top 10 pick in the 2019 draft. This year should be all about giving the young guys opportunities to build confidence so that they are ready to take on bigger roles in 2019/20. In this context, I don't mind Beagle and Sutter in the line-up. Beyond that is a different discussion.

I don't think it will accomplish what you hope it will, though I certainly hope I'm wrong. I can't see Gaudette making the opening day line-up, unless there are trades coming, and I can't see a line-up that makes sense for Pettersson's development. Playing on the wing with Gagner or Sutter at centre? Centring a line with ...?

I think it's noteworthy that you refer to "the" scoring line. I agree that the Canucks will only have one line that can score.

 

[member 290103]

JMHO as a Caps fan, but Beagle really is good on the PK. He is good along the boards and he will eat up time just battling. If he gets the puck in the offensive zone he will take it to the corner and waste away the opponent's PP that way. It will take 2-3 guys to get the puck back.

He is also excellent in the face-off dot. Caps deployed him late in games if they had a lead, defensive zone draws. He is an asset there. The Caps do not have an adequate replacement for Beagle's specialties.

He is a good dude and a heart and soul guy. Team player. Winner. Good locker room guy. Will earn respect.

That said, we were all shocked someone would give him $3M x 4 well into his 30's. That is not a good contract. Caps had him for $1.75M and those were his prime years. We all thought we could get him for 2y x $1.5M.

Luka Sbisa was also a good locker room guy, a team player, a guy others will respect. Problem was he was not very good and being paid as though he was.

 

[Nick Lang]

Actually yes - they were referenced as "bums" and worse on several occasions in this thread...........I'm sure by super successful work-out demons who are fully qualified to call NHL players "bums".............

Full NTC''s? Wow that's insane............

For the sake of argument, if I accept both of these as true, I think that the second outweighs the first. Being better in the short term isn't important for the Canucks, but the long term is.

But I actually don't believe #1 is true. That's not to say that the players are bad, but, rather, that they're not what the team needs. Beagle in particular, as analysts on CanucksArmy and Pass it to Bulis argued, is a redundant asset; the team already has a centre whose only effective role is strictly defensive. With those players in the line-up, the scoring problems are going to worsen.

The team has replaced Daniel, Henrik, and Vanek with Roussel, Beagle, and Schaller, none of whom has the skill to play with and help develop any of the incoming younger players. In the short term, the Canucks would have been better off doing absolutely nothing.

Thankfully Pass it to Bulis spends way to much time buried in stats while having zero experience actually playing hockey. Thinking Sutter makes Beagle redondant just shows how lacking they are in practical application.

 

[CanaFan]

If you count the contracts Benning signed today as similar to Eriksson's I dunno......I guess we have to disagree........And the rest I was pretty bang on wasn't I? The board continues to make a big deal about nothing...........so that was pretty bang on I would say.......

Read my post slower. I didn’t compare them to Eriksson’s contract (that was your #1). I said they are a bunch of junk signed on July 1 (that was your #5).

 

[Superlative Soup]

I swear we have 15 forwards competing for bottom 9 spots.

 

[pgj98m3]

Beagle has been a pretty average 4th line replaceable veteran for most of his career. A few good games in a Stanley Cup run and the legend is more than a bit carried away...and vastly over paid.

If we were contending for a Cup this might be okay. I understand even Lindenning acknowledges we are rebuilding and then this makes no sense.

 

[The Rainman]

If Roussel can help prevent Hughes and Pettersson from being run over time and time again he'll have earned his contract.

 

[pgj98m3]

This forum is a toxic cesspool of dramatic cry babies and Chicken Littles. These signings are nowhere near as bad as most on this site would have you believe.

Says someone who obviously isn't aware we have been bottom dwellers for the last 3 years

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Ryan O'Reilly to the Blues

Ryan O'Reilly - St Louis Blues - 2018 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

 

[Lindgren]

Thankfully Pass it to Bulis spends way to much time buried in stats while having zero experience actually playing hockey. Thinking Sutter makes Beagle redondant just shows how lacking they are in practical application.

Do you think that one of Beagle and Sutter will produce significant offence in the coming year? Neither has ever had twenty assists in a season. Do you think one of them is likely to break that mark in 2018/19?

Beagle is redundant because, like Sutter, he brings very little offence. You don't need to be "buried in stats" to see that. Can you name a team that started two centres last year that produced as few points as Sutter and Beagle?

 

[pgj98m3]

If you count the contracts Benning signed today as similar to Eriksson's I dunno......I guess we have to disagree........And the rest I was pretty bang on wasn't I? The board continues to make a big deal about nothing...........so that was pretty bang on I would say.......

Which would make them close to all time bad!!!!!!!!!!

Benning continues to be Benning and his apologists keep saying "He's getting better" or "It will be different in the future"

Nothing will change until the management is changed.

 

[nowhereman]

Says someone who obviously isn't aware we have been bottom dwellers for the last 3 years

And is that a result of signing bottom six forwards to these kind of contracts or is it because we were left with a barren wasteland for a prospect pool and a bunch of ageing veterans who were impossible to ship out of town?

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Virtanen and Stecher still need to be signed. We'll get close to the cap ceiling yet.

I told ya we'd get there today fellas