GDT: 2018 Free Agency: Jay Beagle 4 x 3M, Antoine Roussel 4 x 3.25M, both w/ limited NTCs

[iceburg]

We need to be able to have two conversations:
1. The players signed will help the team in the short term (1-2 years).
2. The signings, both $$$ and term, will hurt the team in the long term (3 to 4 years).

Both of these can be true.

 

[mossey3535]

Like I've said before, it's even worse that Benning will make a decent signing like Schaller for the right money and term and then turn around and overpay two guys.

For me it would almost be better if he was 100% terrible. Right now he's probably 80% terrible but that 20% ok gives me hope sometimes.

 

[VancouverJagger]

But it was on your list of 5 improvements. You said you expected July 1 to be quiet. Clearly that’s not the case. Can you give me a new #5 to replace it?

I said no large contracts..........I guess if we want to get up in arms over the fact he overpayed 2 fourth line bums (as soo many of this board put our new acquisitions - wait - these are our fans right?) then sure - plenty to freak out about........I said I expected them to be well under the cap heading into the season............I also meant that I didn't expect us to go and chase Bozak for 5 years............This is a tiny bit more than expected but not nearly as egregious as you would like to make it out to be......

 

[VancouverJagger]

Beautiful.

It's a skill thanks.......

 

[y2kcanucks]

Yeah but didn't you know nobody will dare make body contract with a canuck player for the entire season because we have Jay Beagle on the team!!!

I don't wish for anyone to get injured, but you better believe these people will be called out the first time someone takes a run at Boeser or Horvat.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Relevant tweet.

It means he's played on the PK before, and Jim Benning said he's good so some people are going to just believe it.

Jim Benning could trade Boeser for Ryan Reaves and people would praise him for it.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I said no large contracts..........I guess if we want to get up in arms over the fact he overpayed 2 fourth line bums (as soo many of this board put our new acquisitions - wait - these are our fans right?) then sure - plenty to freak out about........I said I expected them to be well under the cap heading into the season............I also meant that I didn't expect us to go and chase Bozak for 5 years............This is a tiny bit more than expected but not nearly as egregious as you would like to make it out to be......

You do understand that in order to be a fan you don't have to fawn over everything the idiot GM does, right? Fans are allowed to be critical when their GM's do stupid things.

 

[VancouverJagger]

You do understand that in order to be a fan you don't have to fawn over everything the idiot GM does, right? Fans are allowed to be critical when their GM's do stupid things.

But of course..........hate on the GM then.........don't call some solid players bums because the GM gave them too much money.........Like half the guys on this thread can't probably do more than 2 chin ups yet they wanna call a gym rat like Beagle (who just won a Stanley Cup btw) a bum...........Is that being a fan too? Still not quite clear but I'm hopeful you can enlighten me.

 

[Zombotron]

 

[CanaFan]

I said no large contracts..........I guess if we want to get up in arms over the fact he overpayed 2 fourth line bums (as soo many of this board put our new acquisitions - wait - these are our fans right?) then sure - plenty to freak out about........I said I expected them to be well under the cap heading into the season............I also meant that I didn't expect us to go and chase Bozak for 5 years............This is a tiny bit more than expected but not nearly as egregious as you would like to make it out to be......

No, #1 was no more Eriksson contracts. That reads like “no large contracts”. #5 was about filling up on junk on July 1. You said you expected July 1 to be quiet and that we were all making a big deal for nothing.

 

[y2kcanucks]

But of course..........hate on the GM then.........don't call some solid players bums because the GM gave them too much money.........Like half the guys on this thread can't probably do more than 2 chin ups yet they wanna call a gym rat like Beagle (who just won a Stanley Cup btw) a bum...........Is that being a fan too? Still not quite clear but I'm hopeful you can enlighten me.

Nobody has called them bums. They’ve been referred to 4th liners because that’s what they are. Jim Benning gave $3M per year long-term with NTC’s to a pair of 4th liners.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Jesus, I’m guessing St Louis is cleaning their farm

 

[TruKnyte]

But of course..........hate on the GM then.........don't call some solid players bums because the GM gave them too much money.........Like half the guys on this thread can't probably do more than 2 chin ups yet they wanna call a gym rat like Beagle (who just won a Stanley Cup btw) a bum...........Is that being a fan too? Still not quite clear but I'm hopeful you can enlighten me.

I'm sorry, but what does one have to do with the other? This was a shit signing no matter how you slice it, and it has nothing to do with whether or not Beagle is a useful player. It's all about how much value does he bring relative to the term and capspace for the team. At four years and 3mil a year for a fourth line forward that has no history of point producing and who is already 32 years old you have to question the rationale of management.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

WOW
At first I read Thomas and thought that’s cheaper than I thought

Now it’s Thompson...holy shit Buffalo got rob

 

[JuniorNelson]

These signings sound like Green is being heard. This will be a functional team to start the season even if they are done.

It's kind of embarrassing that they couldn't spend to cap because nobody wanted their money.

 

[TruKnyte]

Nobody has called them bums. They’ve been referred to 4th liners because that’s what they are. Jim Benning gave $3M per year long-term with NTC’s to a pair of 4th liners.

Did they really get NTC's too? Like what in the actual f***. I thought the signings were bad enough without that.

 

[Zombotron]

WOW
that’s cheaper than I thought

They now have ROR and Bozak down the middle

 

[Shareefruck]

They're not competing with the likes of Pettersson and Dahlin (when he gets called up). Departure of Sedins and Vanek frees up some primo soft minutes and PP which Beagle and Roussel will NOT be getting. Granted Motte and Gaunce--he of the longest goal drought in the league--will be in tough. As will Gaudette but spending a year in Utica will not be a tragedy unless your estimation of this player is up there with M2B.

I'd be worried for the kids if we signed legit top 6 guys. As it stands I can't see the worthy ones being denied, e.g., Boeser.

This point seems either completely contradictory or irrelevant to the sentiment that I originally quoted, doesn't it?

This statement specifically is what I took exception to:

I'm sorry but if you can't beat out the likes of (past their prime) Roussel and Beagle...

If they're not competing with them for the same spots like you're now arguing, then why would it reflect poorly on them if they can't "beat them out"?

Whether or not it's a big loss for Gaunce/Gaudette/Motte/whoever to be left off the team is completely beside the point, and not something that I argued against-- To re-iterate my point, it baffles me that anyone can still think that signing guys like this brings healthy and meaningful competition that can be fairly and reasonably overcome by other players through meritocracy (which your statement suggests). They've been signed to big contracts, so they'll most likely get those spots regardless of how their performance compares with other players on the team.

There's precedence to think that Beagle is not going to be released or become a healthy scratch even if Gaunce or Gaudette clearly out-perform him in preseason. Like always, contract status will by the primary dictator of who gets that spot. It is not a matter of anyone beating out anyone else for a spot. And even if it were possible to do so, the player in question wouldn't just need to simply outplay them, they would need to completely dwarf their performance just to get the discussion started, and even then it's doubtful.

Whether you think this is warranted, acceptable, concerning, or harmful is another story that doesn't affect this contention at all.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

They now have ROR and Bozak down the middle

I think you are forgetting Brayden Schenn why played like a legit 1C last season

 

[Zombotron]

I think you are forgetting Brayden Schenn why played like a legit 1C last season

Just talking about who they acquired today, but yes, Schenn - ROR - Bozak as their top three centres

 

[opendoor]

It's funny seeing all these other reasonable short term contracts for depth players. Riley Nash gets $2.75M over 3 years, Rieder gets $2M for 1 year, Brodziak gets $1.15M for 2 years, and Derek Ryan gets $3.125M for 3 years.

Meanwhile the Canucks hand out more expensive 4 year deals with NTCs for two guys who have one 30 point season between them in their entire careers.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Did they really get NTC's too? Like what in the actual ****. I thought the signings were bad enough without that.

Yup. Limited NTC’s but still. These contracts were so bad that’s just excessive.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

It's funny seeing all these other reasonable short term contracts for depth players. Riley Nash gets $2.75M over 3 years, Rieder gets $2M for 1 year, Brodziak gets $1.15M for 2 years, and Derek Ryan gets $3.125M for 3 years.

Meanwhile the Canucks hand out more expensive 4 year deals with NTCs for two guys who have one 30 point season between them in their entire careers.

Like I can tell players aren’t coming here unless they get overpaid...
Then why the f*** even sign those established players, get some younger less famous players FFS

 

[Jack Burton]

Nobody has called them bums. They’ve been referred to 4th liners because that’s what they are. Jim Benning gave $3M per year long-term with NTC’s to a pair of 4th liners.

Look at the line up and who their going to be playing with. Good chance their point totals will be cut in half which makes these signings even worse.

 

[Cupless44]

How can you honestly look at these contracts, compare them to what other players signed for, and suggest these are good contracts?

You cant.

All you have to do is look objectively around the league and you will see that for July 1st, the contracts around the league are quite reasonable except for Benning.

2 of the worst 3 contracts signed today are by the Canucks.