2017 Draft & UDFA Thread - Part III

[bigdog16]

What about Yamamoto?

 

[offdacrossbar]

I would be very happy if we land Tolvanen. I think there is a chance he may still be around at 21...a small one but a chance (and more than a .01% )

he has that sniper mentality that i like. he's a shoot first kid with a rocket shot. and he can do it all with speed off the rush. he's impressive in his ability to shoot the puck with purpose on the fly. goat one timer too.

not really sure what he's doing away from the puck and doesnt play much defense, but im on board due to his ability to shoot it. when I've watched him, he looks disinterested in playing any defense or back checking at times.

but, we havent had a shooter like him here in a long time.

if he's there, i have no problem taking him even with his doggy 2 way play. he won't be though .

im still hoping for a dropper or 2. klim kostin or juuso valimaki please.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Love Yamamoto, there's a decent chance he's available too, depends how scared teams are about his size, clocked in at under 150lbs at the combine

He's one of my top (realistic) targets at #21.

Also, i really can't see Tolvanen dropping, he's the best goalscorer in this draft class, he'll go top 10. Tippett has the better shot but Tolvanen is the more complete player.

Välimäki crushed the combine and was already looking like a top 10-13 pick, he might go really early, depends when teams start picking D-men.

 

[Trxjw]

RLR is always a good read. Kyle always has a couple off the wall positions, but historically he's been very good.

 

[Trxjw]

Valimaki is just so solid. Has the real potential to be a monster #3 who can anchor the 2nd pairing and be a big PP contributor.

 

[offdacrossbar]

this draft is so all over the place there's a real chance someone wlll drop into our lap.

im good as long as its the best hockey player still on the board who has the best skating, puck smarts and offensive upside.

so many possibilities.

still like these 2 guys as targets after round 1 and if we move down and grab another pick or 2.

josh brook

pavel koltygin

 

[Ranger Ric]

I don't follow prospects the way many of you do but I enjoy the discussion. I did fine a spreadsheet someone put together of the rankings of 10 of the top organizations that do rankings to come up with a consensus ranking . So if you believe in the wisdom of crowds this spreadsheet should be of interest to you. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

What is shows is that there are 10 players that all of the rankings had going before 21: Patrick, Hirschler, Velardi, Heiskanen, Middlestat, Tippet, Glass, Maker, Necas and Peterson. Hard to believe any of these fall to 21. There are four players who 9 of the 10 ranked as higher than 21: Tolvanen, Valamaki, Veselainan and Anderson. There are four players who 8 of the 10 ranked higher than to 21: Lillegran, Rasmussen, Kostin, and Suzuki. There are 3 players who 4 of the 10 ranked higher than 21: Brannstrom, Yamamoto and Hague. It will be interesting to see if one or more players in these 3 groups start falling. Foote comes in at a combined rank of 21 and 5 of the ten ranked him higher than 21. After that you get Poehling, Thomas, Vaakanainen, Ratcliffe and Pierre Olivier.

 

[Ranger Ric]

If you look at the consensus ranking I just posted you would agree with ManUtdTobbe that Tolvanen is not likely to be there and Shane Bowers would be way to high at 21. Only Poehling would be somewhat consistent with the consensus. Would be interested in one of the 11-20 group who falls to 21.

I think there's a 0.01% chance Tolvanen drops to us, tops... I love him though, he's great. Not a fan at all of Bowers, wouldn't pick him top 45, let alone at #21. And Poehling i just don't see the upside at all, don't want

 

[Joey Bones]

I think there's a 0.01% chance Tolvanen drops to us, tops... I love him though, he's great. Not a fan at all of Bowers, wouldn't pick him top 45, let alone at #21. And Poehling i just don't see the upside at all, don't want

There could be a chance. There are fallers every year. I think, especially in this draft class, there will be a lot of movement. These rankings are very scattered. Could see Mittelstadt falling, as well as Necas.

 

[Joey Bones]

Valimaki is just so solid. Has the real potential to be a monster #3 who can anchor the 2nd pairing and be a big PP contributor.

Agreed.

 

[Joey Bones]

I see your points but i don't really agree that Robertson is "easily" the better option, i like Gadjovich better right now, hit shot generation is amazing. I would also very much classify Gadjovich as a Power Forward and i think the comparison between him and Robertson is pretty OK.

I'm fine that someone thinks Robertson is the better prospect though, that's not my beef, my beef is that someone can look at Robertson and Gadjovich and have one in the top 10 while saying the others skating means he won't make the NHL, i don't think much separates their skating at all, i'd give Robertson an edge in top speed but that's about it, his first few strides are just plain ugly.

Robertson's shot generation is equally as impressive, though. He has a better offensive awareness with the puck than Gadjovich. Gadjovich is more solid on the defensive side of the game, which is why I think the separation between power forward and two-way forward is more relevant.

But I agree that their skating is similar and not that impressive.

 

[Bluenote13]

Robertson's shot generation is equally as impressive, though. He has a better offensive awareness with the puck than Gadjovich. Gadjovich is more solid on the defensive side of the game, which is why I think the separation between power forward and two-way forward is more relevant.

But I agree that their skating is similar and not that impressive.

I agree, though Robertson could easily improve his defensive game and be way better offensively than the Gadj. I like Robertson.

 

[Joey Bones]

Tried to muster up as many combine interviews as I could. Here's who I found....

Nick Henry
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--nick-henry/t-277437442/c-52137303
*Dind't realize this until today, but his first season in the WHL was this past year and he was above PPG with Regina. That is impressive. Nothing really note worthy out of this interview

Lias Andersson
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--lias-andersson/t-277437442/c-52141403
*Interviwed with 30 NHL teams. Kings were not one, only because his dad works for the them

Nick Suzuki
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--nick-suzuki/t-277437442/c-52141303
*Said he likes to try and model his game to that of Bergeron

Nicolas Hague
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--nicolas-hague/t-277437442/c-52141203
*Notes that he loves putting the puck on net. Reassuring seeing he's a 6'6" mobile defender.

Owen Tippet
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--owen-tippett/t-277437442/c-52139703
*Likes to model his game after Phil Kessel

Ryan Poehling
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--ryan-poehling/t-277437442/c-52139403
*Thinks he's a 200-foot player both offensively and defensively. A bit naïve if he thinks that. Noted that consistency is an issue and that it is a priority on his off-season agenda

Dan Marr (Director of NHL CSS)
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--dan-marr/t-277437442/c-52138303
*Best interview out of all listed. Thinks a lot of overagers are going to be picked this year

Gabriel Vilardi
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--gabriel-vilardi/t-277437442/c-52137403
*Wants to work on his speed in the off-season, which I agree with

Cody Glass
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--cody-glass/t-277437442/c-52136003
*Considers himself as a two-way playmaker, which is interesting

Callan Foote
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--callan-foote/t-277437442/c-52135903
*Touches on how he does not play like his dad

Cale Makar
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--cale-makar/t-277437442/c-52135403
*Noted that Quinnipiac, Bemidji, Vermont and Denver were other colleges interested in him. Chose Amherst

Juuso Valimaki
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--juuso-valimaki/t-277437442/c-52135203
*Noted he wouldn't mind jumping right into the NHL to help out his team right away

Josh Brook
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--josh-brook/t-277437442/c-52135103
*Considers himself an all-around, two-way defender

Kristian Vesalainen
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--kristian-vesalainen/t-277437442/c-52134203
*Noted that his season was rough on him mentally and that he is better prepared for a move to the NHL. Also noted that the only team that didn't interview him was the Islanders.

Miro Heiskanen
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--miro-heiskanen/t-277437442/c-52134003
*Not much of a talker, but I'm not sure if that is his personality or if he needs to learn the English language

Nico Hischier
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--nico-hischier/t-277437442/c-52129803
*Noted that coming over to the CHL was for his own development on becoming a better player

Nolan Patrick
https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/combine--nolan-patrick/t-277437442/c-52129703
*Couldn't really hear much as the mic kept going in and out

 

[Joey Bones]

I agree, though Robertson could easily improve his defensive game and be way better offensively than the Gadj. I like Robertson.

For sure, but the offense compared to Gadjovich is superior, IMO.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

There could be a chance. There are fallers every year. I think, especially in this draft class, there will be a lot of movement. These rankings are very scattered. Could see Mittelstadt falling, as well as Necas.

I agree, i just can't see a scenario where Tolvanen is one of the fallers, he's the best sniper in this draft class and he has no real offensive weaknesses, unlike Tippett who has some questionmark. I really can't see how Tolvanens iffy two-way game is going to make him fall in this draft, there's very limited snipers here, i think both Tolvanen and Tippett are locks in the top 12 for this reason.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Robertson's shot generation is equally as impressive, though. He has a better offensive awareness with the puck than Gadjovich. Gadjovich is more solid on the defensive side of the game, which is why I think the separation between power forward and two-way forward is more relevant.

But I agree that their skating is similar and not that impressive.

Gadjovich is at 3.4 shots/game while Robertson is at 3.1 shots/game, important to note is that Robertson plays over 18 minutes a game while Gadjovich plays under 16 minutes a game, so Gadjovich has a much higher shots/60.

I'm not trying to talk Robertson down here, i'm just arguing that a scout who is super high on Robertson and super low on Gadjovich is being very hypocritical imho.

They both have similar strengths and similar weaknesses, i'm fine ranking Robertson higher because he's younger but not to that extent.

 

[Ori]

Thanks for the update in this summer draft @Joey - it will be interesting to see who Rangers will land with our #21 st. pick - or will Gorton use it to sign J. Trouba or a similar defensive trade this summer?

Nico Hischier a great new prospect from Switcherland - it has been while since that country had such a high profile player.

 

[Megustaelhockey]

Post real names in here, or don't post.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Whatever happened to Khodorenko? He was in a lot of 1st round mocks a year ago, but he seems to have dropped off the face of the earth for some reason.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Don't shoot me when I ask this, but what's the knock on Cal Foote? Not from the perspective of who most people want to draft at 21, i.e., Brannstrom, Yamamoto, etc., but why don't people like the kid? Kelowna cranks out some great defensemen.

 

[Trxjw]

Don't shoot me when I ask this, but what's the knock on Cal Foote? Not from the perspective of who most people want to draft at 21, i.e., Brannstrom, Yamamoto, etc., but why don't people like the kid? Kelowna cranks out some great defensemen.

I think it's two things: Lack of a 'wow' factor, and his footwork. Honestly at 21, depending on who is left on the board, he's an excellent pick. I think a lot of scouts look at him and can't separate him from his Dad. They want to see that snarl that Adam brought, but Cal is just a steady two-way presence.

Note that the footwork part is my own opinion. I know a lot of outlets think it's just fine. I just see a little heaviness in his feet sometimes, but that could just be a kid growing into his fame.

I'm pretty sure he'll go in the 10-15 range though. It's a crazy draft and he's about as close to a "can't miss" prospect as I see in the class. He has the pedigree, size, ability, and he's a righty. It's just a question of whether or not scouts see top-pairing potential or not.

 

[Trxjw]

Like someone mentioned before, Sam Bennett had a big ol' goose egg at the combine, but is still a good player. Mittelstadt is still a good player, despite the lack of preparation. To me, the lack of preparation is something to be concerning, though.

I wouldn't say size and weight is something to calculate as a 1st rounder, 2nd rounder or whatever the case. Talent is talent. If a player is 5'8/156lbs., but has nearly 100 point season (*cough *cough... Yamamoto) and still plays physical, grinding game, that gives more of a motive for a pro game than that of a player who isn't gritty enough to gain possession to turn the play the other way.

Didn't Bennett miss the season with a shoulder injury though? I still think Mittlestadt is a very good prospect, but that lack of upper body strength is a little disappointing. Certainly something that can be easily fixed though.

 

[MarkMessyay11]

I think it's two things: Lack of a 'wow' factor, and his footwork. Honestly at 21, depending on who is left on the board, he's an excellent pick. I think a lot of scouts look at him and can't separate him from his Dad. They want to see that snarl that Adam brought, but Cal is just a steady two-way presence.

Note that the footwork part is my own opinion. I know a lot of outlets think it's just fine. I just see a little heaviness in his feet sometimes, but that could just be a kid growing into his fame.

I'm pretty sure he'll go in the 10-15 range though. It's a crazy draft and he's about as close to a "can't miss" prospect as I see in the class. He has the pedigree, size, ability, and he's a righty. It's just a question of whether or not scouts see top-pairing potential or not.

This is pretty spot on with everything I've seen about Foote too. Not that he would be a "bad" pick at 21, but I think there's hope that one of the big name Europeans fall outside the top 20 and we can steal a potential top-line/top-pair player.

Foote is a prototypical 2nd pair defenseman IMO. Not too much flash or excitement in his game, but he's got all the savvy and tools to be a solid NHL Dman. But if you have the choice between him and say one of Liljegren, Brannstrom, Kostin, Vesalainen, etc...I think the choice is easy. Take the risk that one of these kids will reach their full potential and become a high-impact player.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Didn't Bennett miss the season with a shoulder injury though? I still think Mittlestadt is a very good prospect, but that lack of upper body strength is a little disappointing. Certainly something that can be easily fixed though.

Cool, let him drop then.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Also, this is a complete shot in the dark, but does anyone remember the name of the scouting service RangerBoy posted in here once that had an analytics-based approach to rating their prospects. They had Charlie McAvoy as the 4th best prospect in the draft, and I'm curious if any of their info is available for this draft?

Edit: found it:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...aft-process/OHG4wKD0Q8HBpYTG4ZeFkN/story.html

Michael Schuckers' draft model. I'll try to find data available for this season.