2017 Draft discussion- Sabres pick 8th. Part 2

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NotABadPeriod

ForFriendshipDikembe
Oct 28, 2006
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The hit rate for goalies is still not great in the early rounds when compared to skaters. While investing a higher pick in a goaltender improves your chances of finding a quality tender, the opportunity cost is high.

That's why I like to mid-to-late round flier every year, because the opportunity cost is much less--most skaters picked in those rounds won't end up being NHLers either. Chances are you won't get a legit prospect, but if you do that's huge because unlike other positions, all you really need are a couple legit guys developing. But whenever the pipeline starts to dry up (picks in successive years miss, guys graduate or leave the system, etc.), that's when you need to use a higher round pick to shore it up. Depending on what happens with Ullmark in the expansion draft and with the uncertainty surrounding Petersen, we could be looking at a very dry pipeline. The fact that Murray really did not address it in his past few drafts means we have fewer lottery tickets to hit on as well.

That's why I'd like to see us grab one earlier (quality) and one later (quantity) to see if we can't help shore that pipeline up. I suppose if Ullmark stays it might make grabbing an earlier one less of a need, but it may still not be a bad idea, especially given that we have some extra picks to work with.

The other thing is that the development curve for goalies is much longer, meaning you cannot wait until it's a dire need to address it. You have to start before it gets to that point.
 

Ace

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Murray brought in a goalie under 25 for every year he was here while having two good prospects drafted just beforehand.

Not sure you can lay an expansion draft and Peterson wanting to play in Chicago on him.

But I'm sure you will.
 

NotABadPeriod

ForFriendshipDikembe
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Murray brought in a goalie under 25 for every year he was here while having two good prospects drafted just beforehand.

Not sure you can lay an expansion draft and Peterson wanting to play in Chicago on him.

But I'm sure you will.

While he did trade for Lehner and Kasdorf and draft Johansson, because he traded away/let go in UFA a bunch of goalies in our revolving door the sheer number in the pipeline was still very low. Even if he had just drafted one more goalie we'd be in better shape organizationally.

Which is why I think we're playing catch up and should grab 2 prospects in this draft.

Even if Ullmark is not taken AND Petersen signs with us (which would make that whole "can't plan for expansion/UFA" comment moot), we STILL need more bodies in net. We need more guys developing at lower levels so 2-3 years (when guys like Ullmark/Petersen are hopefully in the NHL) from now we're not screwed. With goalies, you simply cannot wait until the prospect situation gets dire to address it because of the long development time goalie prospects usually require.
 

Yultron

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Apr 18, 2017
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I'm fully expecting the Sabres to select Liljegren if Makar is off the board with all indications he is going to Arizona. I think there's a chance the Sabres take Tippett but Liljegren is what this team really needs.

I really wanted Tippett but we really need a defenseman no doubt about it and his work ethic is no doubt a question mark make no mistake . Liljegren can be this years Chychrun
 

truthbluth

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Feb 2, 2011
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I'm fully expecting the Sabres to select Liljegren if Makar is off the board with all indications he is going to Arizona. I think there's a chance the Sabres take Tippett but Liljegren is what this team really needs.

I really wanted Tippett but we really need a defenseman no doubt about it and his work ethic is no doubt a question mark make no mistake . Liljegren can be this years Chychrun

I agree with this in the sense that Liljegren has a shot at stepping into the NHL day one. Not a great shot, but probably better than any other D prospect in the draft.

I still prefer Erik Brannstrom though, but sub 5'10" (I don't believe his listed height at all) defensemen tend to fall in the draft, so maybe he's there for us in round 2.
 

OkimLom

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May 3, 2010
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I'm fully expecting the Sabres to select Liljegren if Makar is off the board with all indications he is going to Arizona. I think there's a chance the Sabres take Tippett but Liljegren is what this team really needs.

I really wanted Tippett but we really need a defenseman no doubt about it and his work ethic is no doubt a question mark make no mistake . Liljegren can be this years Chychrun

Why do people think Arizona is going Defense this year?
 

Ace

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Oct 29, 2015
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Why do people think Arizona is going Defense this year?

I think just because when people are filling out there mock there are 5 Cs and 2 Ds they have going ahead of our pick and the 5 C are already gone by then.
 

Chainshot

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Early meeting with the Sabres for Safin:

IMG_3391.jpg
 

Rasmus CacOlainen

The end of the Tank
Sep 24, 2015
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Lias Andersson or bust.

The next Henrik Zetterberg, believe me.

Would love to trade down for him or Valimaki in the 13-14 range as Im sure at least of them is still there. I hope theres a team out there that can give up a solid add for that if they like someone particularly at 8 that they are afraid may be gone in the early teens. Worst case get Suzuki - there is no way all 3 of them are gone by 14 IMO based on the current rankings available.

Good trade partners potentially Carolina(maybe as part of bigger trade with D coming our way), Islanders, Tampa. Im sure Islanders can do with a top10 pick as their roster is rather mediocre overall.
 

Reddawg

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I'd be ok with Andersson. If GMJB traded Kane for a 1st, I'd be good with him as the pick. Safest pick in the draft.

I agree that he's a safe pick and will be a good player, but with Larsson already on the roster and Asplund waiting in the wings, I worry that Andersson won't have a spot to land for a good long time. Seems as though there are far bigger holes in our lineup that need filling.
 

Der Jaeger

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Feb 14, 2009
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I agree that he's a safe pick and will be a good player, but with Larsson already on the roster and Asplund waiting in the wings, I worry that Andersson won't have a spot to land for a good long time. Seems as though there are far bigger holes in our lineup that need filling.

There are bigger holes. I wouldn't pick him at 8. Assume the Sabres get back into the 1st round, and I'm ok with Andersson. He can also play LW and RW, so having Larsson, who is strictly a center, shouldn't prevent GMJB from taking Andersson or a player like him.
 

Reddawg

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There are bigger holes. I wouldn't pick him at 8. Assume the Sabres get back into the 1st round, and I'm ok with Andersson. He can also play LW and RW, so having Larsson, who is strictly a center, shouldn't prevent GMJB from taking Andersson or a player like him.

I didn't know that, makes him a lot more appealing but I agree...not at #8. If we can somehow get our hands on another second, then by all means. I think it would ultimately be a similar situation to 2012 when we swung for the fences with Grigorenko and then went super-safe with Girgensons. If only Forsberg had fallen one more spot...giggedy.
 

truthbluth

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edit: This is a ramble about Nick Suzuki and then more general about PoN vs BPA.


Thinking about players that i wouldn't be excited for the Sabres to draft, and I though of Nick Suzuki, but digging into scouting reports, particularly spread out over time, he seems to be a player that is just rounding into form.

Is he at a position of need? Absolutely not, but the reality is, unless you are at the very top of the draft, you should be drafting for need 3-5 years out. Which is to say, draft BPA, since you don't really know what you'll need 3-5 years out.

If Suzuki spends 2 more years in junior, and then a year in the AHL, he'd be debuting as a full time Sabre in the 20-21 season. O'Reilly and Okposo are the only Sabres under contract that far out. You can assume Sam and Jack, and probably also Nylander and Asplund. Everybody else is a pretty big question mark. So adding a top 6 forward, if he's your BPA is possibly a wise move, especially if that player has some elite facet to his game, e.g. Suzuki with IQ/skill, Tippett with speed/shot, Pettersson with skill, Rasmussen with grit (kidding).

That said, if it's close you have to address organizational depth with a Defenseman. I'm just saying, I would be ok with grabbing skill early, since you simply cannot find players like that, in this draft, in later rounds, whereas projecting defenseman is so hard to do, you may as well just keeping throwing darts. So, BPA at 8, followed by 5 straight defenseman. Maybe a goalie.
 

Ace

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Oct 29, 2015
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"If I'm the gm I'm trading the pick for a estabilised nhl defenseman"

-Baker

Amen. Trade the pick. Makar won't be there? Trade the pick
 

Butt Ox

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Oct 24, 2006
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Bakes on Instigators right now: "No chance Makar is there at 8."

Can you imagine taking all the things you hated about Housley during his tenure here, and coaching that (straight from the source) to the Liljegren that scouts picked apart 2016/2017?

Philjegren would be awesome :laugh:
 

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
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"If I'm the gm I'm trading the pick for a estabilised nhl defenseman"

-Baker

Amen. Trade the pick. Makar won't be there? Trade the pick

Because Makar is the only option to address our defense...:shakehead
 

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
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edit: This is a ramble about Nick Suzuki and then more general about PoN vs BPA.


Thinking about players that i wouldn't be excited for the Sabres to draft, and I though of Nick Suzuki, but digging into scouting reports, particularly spread out over time, he seems to be a player that is just rounding into form.

Is he at a position of need? Absolutely not, but the reality is, unless you are at the very top of the draft, you should be drafting for need 3-5 years out. Which is to say, draft BPA, since you don't really know what you'll need 3-5 years out.

If Suzuki spends 2 more years in junior, and then a year in the AHL, he'd be debuting as a full time Sabre in the 20-21 season. O'Reilly and Okposo are the only Sabres under contract that far out. You can assume Sam and Jack, and probably also Nylander and Asplund. Everybody else is a pretty big question mark. So adding a top 6 forward, if he's your BPA is possibly a wise move, especially if that player has some elite facet to his game, e.g. Suzuki with IQ/skill, Tippett with speed/shot, Pettersson with skill, Rasmussen with grit (kidding).

That said, if it's close you have to address organizational depth with a Defenseman. I'm just saying, I would be ok with grabbing skill early, since you simply cannot find players like that, in this draft, in later rounds, whereas projecting defenseman is so hard to do, you may as well just keeping throwing darts. So, BPA at 8, followed by 5 straight defenseman. Maybe a goalie.

So players that are already in the development process are question marks, but the guy who hasn't even been drafted isn't?
 

Ace

Registered User
Oct 29, 2015
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I mean Jesus Christ the post you are shaking your head at INCLUDES AN ALTERNATE WAY TO ADDRESS OUR DEFENSE
 
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