Speculation: 2017-18 Roster Discussion - Part 2

[DFC]

I'd rather not bring Boyle back now. I'd rather use that spot to break in a young C.

 

[DFC]

Hamonic to the Flames.

 

[Todd1a]

Hamonic to the Flames.

Lost out on another will be interesting to see what the flames gave up

 

[Cmac66]

would have had thought that we were priced out for getting Hamonic, Didn't there GM want 2 1st for him at least. Most likely settled for a 1st next year + Prospect.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Harmonic for a 1st and 2x 2nds

 

[CupsOverCash]

Saw that they wanted more than what they got from an Eastern conference team. Don't see SY parting with more than a 1st and 2 2nds.

 

[DFC]

Saw that they wanted more than what they got from an Eastern conference team. Don't see SY parting with more than a 1st and 2 2nds.

Assuming Calgary's prospect pool is strong, it's probably a good deal for both sides.

I think our management just slightly over-values draft picks. I don't think we should be spending them all willy nilly or anything, but if we'd paid that price for Hamonic, it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

 

[The Macho King]

Assuming Calgary's prospect pool is strong, it's probably a good deal for both sides.

I think our management just slightly over-values draft picks. I don't think we should be spending them all willy nilly or anything, but if we'd paid that price for Hamonic, it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

A couple of things:

1 - I don't think we'd get that price. Snow supposedly did not want to trade him in the East, so price would have been higher.

2 - Calgary has a much better chance of re-signing him after his contract is up than we do, so they're not getting a few years of Hamonic - they may be getting 5-8. Makes the payment a lot easier to swallow than if we're just getting him as basically a long-term rental.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Assuming Calgary's prospect pool is strong, it's probably a good deal for both sides.

I think our management just slightly over-values draft picks. I don't think we should be spending them all willy nilly or anything, but if we'd paid that price for Hamonic, it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

Yzerman likes to restock the prospect pool yearly. I don't necessarily disagree with you but Yzerman doesn't like getting rid of his precious picks. Hamonic is good but he hasn't played great lately. I don't see Yzerman giving up picks unless it's something where he thinks he's getting a sure thing.

 

[The Macho King]

Yzerman likes to restock the prospect pool yearly. I don't necessarily disagree with you but Yzerman doesn't like getting rid of his precious picks. Hamonic is good but he hasn't played great lately. I don't see Yzerman giving up picks unless it's something where he thinks he's getting a sure thing.

Like Lindback.

 

[DFC]

A couple of things:

1 - I don't think we'd get that price. Snow supposedly did not want to trade him in the East, so price would have been higher.

2 - Calgary has a much better chance of re-signing him after his contract is up than we do, so they're not getting a few years of Hamonic - they may be getting 5-8. Makes the payment a lot easier to swallow than if we're just getting him as basically a long-term rental.

Agreed, although Calgary didn't pay a whole lot less than two first. Definitely less, but they still paid a big price.

I just mean, in general, I think our team, specifically, values draft picks as if they're all sure-bets. EDIT: I should clarify. Our board (I have no idea what management discussions look like) occasionally values picks as if they're all sure bets.

Yzerman likes to restock the prospect pool yearly. I don't necessarily disagree with you but Yzerman doesn't like getting rid of his precious picks. Hamonic is good but he hasn't played great lately. I don't see Yzerman giving up picks unless it's something where he thinks he's getting a sure thing.

Yeah, I just think there's a certain point where that mindset comes at the expense of the team currently on the ice. I'm not even saying we should have brought in Hamonic. (I was lukewarm on Hamonic.) I just mean, in general, there's a point where hoarding prospects comes at a price. It's hard to say if we cross that line occasionally, because you never know what's going on in GM to GM conversations.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Like Lindback.

Yea the exception. That's a time where we were desperate for a goalie. We're not desperate for Hamonic.

 

[Rschmitz]

Hamonics cap hit would have been excellent, but he would have been far from an ideal pickup.

Yzerman continues to look for a reasonable deal for a top 4

 

[Todd1a]

Yea the exception. That's a time where we were desperate for a goalie. We're not desperate for Hamonic.

Yzerman also sold every thing at that deadline he had tons of teams draft picks

 

[Leonardo87]

I'd rather not bring Boyle back now. I'd rather use that spot to break in a young C.

As much as I would love to see Boyle back in Tampa , there really is no need other than the like of the player and him returning would be cool. But more of personal nostalgia for me. But he is going to likely ask anywhere between 2.5 and 3 million and think that money can help be used to entice that top 9 forward or Top 4 D, which is more needed. I think Marleau would be good and a guy like Cam Fowler or Brandon Smith. I still think he will re-sign in NY but with the acquisition of DeAngelo he may not. Some people are upset with this team roster, but look at the Rangers they have serious holes to fill, Tampa just needs to pave a few cracks. I think this current roster with a couple of medium size additions will be in excellent shape.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Yeah, I just think there's a certain point where that mindset comes at the expense of the team currently on the ice. I'm not even saying we should have brought in Hamonic. (I was lukewarm on Hamonic.) I just mean, in general, there's a point where hoarding prospects comes at a price. It's hard to say if we cross that line occasionally, because you never know what's going on in GM to GM conversations.

This is my opinion on why Yzerman does this. I think he finds the prospects are more valuable than the picks. If we develop a lot of good players and have an abundance of them it gives us an advantage in not only a cap place but also from a trade standpoint. Now you have to actually draft well and have to develop them well but if you do then this is what can happen.

Now despite everyone thinking that our window is small I think it's actually pretty good but I actually think this season has the most uncertainty we have had in quite a while. That doesn't mean I don't think our team will be good. I think they can be very good but after the season we had, the Stamkos and Johnson injuries, trading away Drouin I couldn't tell you what I think about this current team. I personally wouldn't sell much to make this current team better because of that uncertainty.

We have a lot of talent coming in the next few seasons. I think our best years to win are in the few years after this one. Again that doesn't mean that this one won't be good and won't be our best chance to. I'm just not one to go all in on this year. Think it's not our best year to do it. Now if we have a good offseason and get some players without having to give up futures and also play well in the first half of the season limiting injuries, we could sell futures at the deadline because a lot of that uncertainty is gone for now.

I realize that there's more uncertainty in the future but when there's uncertainty now and the future looks promising I don't think that you want to risk long term future for a uncertain short term future. I really think Yzerman is all about building an overall valuable team. Current and future. There's a time to go all in. I'm not so sure now is that time.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Yzerman also sold every thing at that deadline he had tons of teams draft picks

Yzerman sold at the deadline because at that time it looked like our team was going to be a lottery team. If he would have known what happened afterwards I don't think he would have traded Boyle. Getting rid of Filppula was a no brainer though.

 

[Todd1a]

DAN GIRARDI ? i'd take a flyer on him I think he will be cheap a good bottom pair defenseman! we need a vet with so many kids coming in.

 

[DFC]

This is my opinion on why Yzerman does this. I think he finds the prospects are more valuable than the picks. If we develop a lot of good players and have an abundance of them it gives us an advantage in not only a cap place but also from a trade standpoint. Now you have to actually draft well and have to develop them well but if you do then this is what can happen.

Now despite everyone thinking that our window is small I think it's actually pretty good but I actually think this season has the most uncertainty we have had in quite a while. That doesn't mean I don't think our team will be good. I think they can be very good but after the season we had, the Stamkos and Johnson injuries, trading away Drouin I couldn't tell you what I think about this current team. I personally wouldn't sell much to make this current team better because of that uncertainty.

We have a lot of talent coming in the next few seasons. I think our best years to win are in the few years after this one. Again that doesn't mean that this one won't be good and won't be our best chance to. I'm just not one to go all in on this year. Think it's not our best year to do it. Now if we have a good offseason and get some players without having to give up futures and also play well in the first half of the season limiting injuries, we could sell futures at the deadline because a lot of that uncertainty is gone for now.

I realize that there's more uncertainty in the future but when there's uncertainty now and the future looks promising I don't think that you want to risk long term future for a uncertain short term future. I really think Yzerman is all about building an overall valuable team. Current and future. There's a time to go all in. I'm not so sure now is that time.

I don't even really believe in going "all in." Seems to backfire a whole lot more than it works.

I just mean, yeah, we value picks/prospects a lot... but there's a Phase 2 to that plan that we don't really seem to execute on. We're rarely, if ever, trading those prospects to fill a current team need. In the case of both Drouin and DeAngelo, we traded them for yet more prospects/picks.

 

[HoseEmDown]

DAN GIRARDI ? i'd take a flyer on him I think he will be cheap a good bottom pair defenseman! we need a vet with so many kids coming in.

Are you talking for Syracuse? Where do we have many kids coming in on the main roster?

 

[CupsOverCash]

I don't even really believe in going "all in." Seems to backfire a whole lot more than it works.

I just mean, yeah, we value picks/prospects a lot... but there's a Phase 2 to that plan that we don't really seem to execute on. We're rarely, if ever, trading those prospects to fill a current team need. In the case of both Drouin and DeAngelo, we traded them for yet more prospects/picks.

I think we will see more trades involving our futures when we get a clearer idea of where we are currently. I just think we need to see this team succeed again.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

DAN GIRARDI ? i'd take a flyer on him I think he will be cheap a good bottom pair defenseman! we need a vet with so many kids coming in.

Hrmmm yes, I will take one (1) player that was bought out last season by a defensively poorly stocked team plz.

 

[Todd1a]

I don't even really believe in going "all in." Seems to backfire a whole lot more than it works.

I just mean, yeah, we value picks/prospects a lot... but there's a Phase 2 to that plan that we don't really seem to execute on. We're rarely, if ever, trading those prospects to fill a current team need. In the case of both Drouin and DeAngelo, we traded them for yet more prospects/picks.

Yes I totally agree and see your point DFC. I think people misunderstand me I'm not saying going all in also! In 2012 it was ok for yzerman to do what he was doing he was rebuilding the farm which was needed. I agree we never go into the 2nd phase to truly become a cup contender and it frustrates me. I think we can all agree we are not far away from winning a cup. But we need to make 2-3 moves to get there. Drouin and Deangelo's trades set us back from that instead of getting guys that can help right now. Right now we clearly don't have the trade assets to get any defenseman or a top 9 forward or at least yzerman is not willing to part with any prospects or draft picks at this time. With players in there prime in tampa right now yzerman has to understand the window has arrived and is here yet it seems like he keeps rebuilding ?

 

[Todd1a]

Hrmmm yes, I will take one (1) player that was bought out last season by a defensively poorly stocked team plz.

sure he is not worth 5.5 but for 1 million i'd take him rather then pay sustr 1.5 million lol

 

[Todd1a]

Are you talking for Syracuse? Where do we have many kids coming in on the main roster?

Dotchin and slater and the russian d we got coming to the lightning roster