World Cup: 2016 World Cup — Team Sweden

[mjlee]

Looking at that roster, especiallly if we include Klingberg, our forwards will be more defensively responsible than our backline? Seriously.

 

[Tomas W]

Looking at that roster, especiallly if we include Klingberg, our forwards will be more defensively responsible than our backline? Seriously.

Thats Swedens way. Do it backwards. Offense from the defense and defense from the offense.

 

[Willy Stylez]

Looking at that roster, especiallly if we include Klingberg, our forwards will be more defensively responsible than our backline? Seriously.

Hehe its bit crazy. How many more D's are they selecting btw, two? How many can we have on the bench? 3 D Pairs total like in the NHL?

With the D's now i feel with the type of balance we got on the backend, i would like Lindholm (definitely) and Klingberg/Larsson to be the last two. Ekholm been good to.

OEL - Karlsson
Hedman - Strålman
Lindholm - Hjalmarsson
Kronwall - Klingberg/Larsson (Depending later on what type we need)

or

OEL - Karlsson
Hedman - Strålman
Hjalmarsson - Klingberg

I do like Lindholm - Hjalmarsson much choice more do, I like the balance it makes troughout the backend. OEL/Karlsson PPTime & Lindholm/Hjalmarsson first BPPair with Heds/Strawls as second BPPair.

 

[ulvvf]

And Klingberg has nothing on Hjalmarsson defensively. As for turnovers, I've never given 2 cents about the giveaway stat in my 11 years of following the NHL closely. I base turnovers purely on watching players play, as all turnovers are far from equal. The bottom line is Hjalmarsson almost never makes mistakes and for a defensive defenseman he does have a good outlet pass. In a vacum he isn't better than Klingberg, but he is Sweden's best defensive defenseman and penalty killer. He has been a key component on 3 Stanley Cup winning teams.

Anyone complaining that Hjalmarsson made the team over Klingberg might as well complain about a forward or a goalie making the team over him. Klingberg and Hjalmarsson are so far from eachother in terms of playing styles that they aren't competing against eachother for a roster spot.

Many want to label players, he scores a lot, so he must be bad defensivly. But that is rarly the case.

What you missing is roles. Most defensive d-men in NHL are failed offensive d-men this days (murray type of d-men are rare). So is it with Hjalmarsson, Larsson and expically Strålman as well. Who would have had Strålman as a shutdown d-men before Tortorella gave him that role? Did he magically become better defensivly over a night or is it just about roles? It is easy to mix up roles and actually abilities, and think that a player that has a more defensive role is better defensivly, when that most often is not the case, it is usually just a result of that their offensive is not good enough for this level.

You usually put your best player at the offensive, not defense, not becuase they can not play defense, but because being constructive is always harder then being destructive. If we want solid defense, we can create that with allsvenskan players, all it takes is a good system and good work ethic.

If you give a player the role of staying in his own zone the whole time and never take any risk, he will look better defensivly, but is he better defensivly then the one that join the rushes and try to be creative? Would not the later player also be able to stand in his own zone the whole time and never do anything risky? A player that is suppose to be creative is off course more prone to do mistake, but that do not mean he is not as good defensivly. I would say consider their role players like Klingberg and Karlsson do very few mistakes, but still their mistake are always more highligted than when players like Larsson, Hjalmarsson do it, and that players like Hjalmarsson and Larsson do many mistakes consider their role, both statswise and by eye test. You say that you do not care about giveaways, but still you do. Sure not all giveaways are the same, not all good passes results in goals, while a none so special passes can results in a goal, but in the end it usually evens out and become a fair represetation. Hjalmarssoin and Larsson and strålman do many bad giveaways as well, I see them pretty much everytime I watch them. But their mistake is ignored as they are label as defense d-men.

Plus as I have mention, most of their offensive skills they have use for even in the defense. You have use of mobility, speed, hockey iq, passing skills, etc in the defense as well, and those do not disapear when they play defense, unless they have bad work ethic. So often are the player that are better offensivly also the better defensivly.

I do not really get how swedes can question players like karlssons defense after the olympics? Wasnt it very obvious there that he is many levels above the rest even defensivly.

 

[ulvvf]

Looking at that roster, especiallly if we include Klingberg, our forwards will be more defensively responsible than our backline? Seriously.

Have you forget the olympics? Which pair was best defensivly there, Hjalmarsson or Karlsson? Still the same talk now as before the olympics? Execpt for Klingberg, what this team maybe is missing on the defensive side is size. I would have prefer Larsson or Edler instead of Kronwall.

 

[ulvvf]

Hehe its bit crazy. How many more D's are they selecting btw, two? How many can we have on the bench? 3 D Pairs total like in the NHL?

With the D's now i feel with the type of balance we got on the backend, i would like Lindholm (definitely) and Klingberg/Larsson to be the last two. Ekholm been good to.

OEL - Karlsson
Hedman - Strålman
Lindholm - Hjalmarsson
Kronwall - Klingberg/Larsson (Depending later on what type we need)

or

OEL - Karlsson
Hedman - Strålman
Hjalmarsson - Klingberg

I do like Lindholm - Hjalmarsson much choice more do, I like the balance it makes troughout the backend. OEL/Karlsson PPTime & Lindholm/Hjalmarsson first BPPair with Heds/Strawls as second BPPair.

He can choose 6 more if he so want to. But since the team will be in the end 23 players (3 goalies a must), and he have already 6 d-men in the team, I would guess he will pick just 1 more d-men, to make it 3+7+13.

 

[jfc64]

Well, Swedish team is pretty aged.

First we surround Z with speedy players like Landeskog and Nyquist.

Kronwall (only old d-man) and Hjalle are warriors who will work fine together. Think rich man's Hjalmarsson - Oduya.

The Sedins?? - They are beyond fast and slow. The can play boccia and still get into offensive zone. And Ol' Lumquest? - at least he has some quick reflexes. And the sideways icescraping is impressive.

Biggest problem with 30+ players is they occupy space otherwise reserved for developing players. But too many Rakells, Lindholms, Zibanejad, Klingbergs and we risk having players on the team that are simply not good enough.

Btw, are 29-32 year olds Steen, Loui, Söderberg, Hjalmarsson, Strålman (WC 2008) too old?

But I guess you marvel at having Barkov, Ristolainen, TT-svinga, possibly Puljujärvi (box play ?!) and Olli Määättää on the team.

Or, we could create a GUBBE-L(a)INEN with Sedins, Z, Kronwall and a backchecker who doesn't grasp for air and diminish their time on ice.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

delete

 

[jfc64]

Nice progress on some players:

First Söderberg is good over a period, then Hörnqvist and finally Forsberg. Johansson has been stable whole season and Zibanejad and Silfverberg have been responsible defensively. Are we set now when it comes to forwards?

Sedin - Sedin - Zetterberg
Forsberg - Bäckström - Hörnqvist
Landeskog - Söderberg - Eriksson (kombi-lina)
Steen - Zibanejad - Silfverberg
Johansson


Or:

a) who is the ideal third- and fourth line centre?

b) are forwards too slow?


goody bag:

Victor Rask (C) Carolina Hurricanes 66 15 25 40 0.61 20 -1
Rickard Rakell (C/W) Anaheim Ducks 63 17 19 36 0.57 19 2
Gustav Nyquist (RW/LW) Detroit Red Wings 67 16 21 37 0.55 24 -1
Alexander Wennberg (C/W) Columbus Blue Jackets 55 6 23 29 0.53 0 -5
Mikael Backlund (C) Calgary Flames 67 14 21 35 0.52 22 7
André Burakovsky (W/C) Washington Capitals 64 14 19 33 0.52 10 8
Elias Lindholm (C/RW) Carolina Hurricanes 68 9 24 33 0.49 18 -16
Patrik Berglund (C/W) St. Louis Blues 28 6 5 11 0.39 8 2
Carl Hagelin (LW) Pittsburgh Penguins 64 7 18 25 0.39 20 -4
Jesper Fast (RW/LW) New York Rangers 64 10 14 24 0.38 12 6
Jacob Josefson (C) New Jersey Devils 54 3 10 13 0.24 20 -17
Marcus Krüger (C) Chicago Blackhawks 33 0 1 1 0.03 20 -5

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Many want to label players, he scores a lot, so he must be bad defensivly. But that is rarly the case.

What you missing is roles. Most defensive d-men in NHL are failed offensive d-men this days (murray type of d-men are rare). So is it with Hjalmarsson, Larsson and expically Strålman as well. Who would have had Strålman as a shutdown d-men before Tortorella gave him that role? Did he magically become better defensivly over a night or is it just about roles? It is easy to mix up roles and actually abilities, and think that a player that has a more defensive role is better defensivly, when that most often is not the case, it is usually just a result of that their offensive is not good enough for this level.

You usually put your best player at the offensive, not defense, not becuase they can not play defense, but because being constructive is always harder then being destructive. If we want solid defense, we can create that with allsvenskan players, all it takes is a good system and good work ethic.

If you give a player the role of staying in his own zone the whole time and never take any risk, he will look better defensivly, but is he better defensivly then the one that join the rushes and try to be creative? Would not the later player also be able to stand in his own zone the whole time and never do anything risky? A player that is suppose to be creative is off course more prone to do mistake, but that do not mean he is not as good defensivly. I would say consider their role players like Klingberg and Karlsson do very few mistakes, but still their mistake are always more highligted than when players like Larsson, Hjalmarsson do it, and that players like Hjalmarsson and Larsson do many mistakes consider their role, both statswise and by eye test. You say that you do not care about giveaways, but still you do. Sure not all giveaways are the same, not all good passes results in goals, while a none so special passes can results in a goal, but in the end it usually evens out and become a fair represetation. Hjalmarssoin and Larsson and strålman do many bad giveaways as well, I see them pretty much everytime I watch them. But their mistake is ignored as they are label as defense d-men.

Plus as I have mention, most of their offensive skills they have use for even in the defense. You have use of mobility, speed, hockey iq, passing skills, etc in the defense as well, and those do not disapear when they play defense, unless they have bad work ethic. So often are the player that are better offensivly also the better defensivly.

I do not really get how swedes can question players like karlssons defense after the olympics? Wasnt it very obvious there that he is many levels above the rest even defensivly.

This is wrong in many ways in my opinion, especially with Stralman.

Literally, all followers of analytics loved Stralman and had Stralman as the poster boy-player for what a great d-man should be. He was already considered a shutdown-D, that could skate and contribute in any which way possible. Before Cooper even threw Stralman on the 1st pairing, stats people were literally going on rants on how Torts should be playing Stralman top pairing. I highly doubt you watch Tampas games if you think Stralman can't contribute other than defensively. He literally skates his way out of trouble or makes the perfect play. I have Stralman in my top-10 D.

OEL - Karlsson
Hedman - Stralman

That should be a locked top-4. That top-4 IMO would rival Canada's.

 

[Slimmy]

Going with balance in D pairings and want to even out talent over all three lines. Fourth line is energy line.

Alexander Steen - Henrik Zetterberg - *Gustav Nyquist
Niklas Kronwall - Erik Karlsson

Daniel Sedin - Henrik Sedin - Loui Eriksson
Victor Hedman - Anton Strålman

Filip Forsberg - Nicklas Bäckström - *Carl Söderberg
Oliver Ekman-Larsson - Niklas Hjalmarsson

Gabriel Landeskog- *Patrick Berglund - *Joel Lundqvist

Henrik Lundqvist
Jakob Markström
*Robin Lehner


*Alexander Edler
*Jacob Silfverberg

 

[Willy Stylez]

Going with balance in D pairings and want to even out talent over all three lines. Fourth line is energy line.

Alexander Steen - Henrik Zetterberg - *Gustav Nyquist
Niklas Kronwall - Erik Karlsson

Daniel Sedin - Henrik Sedin - Loui Eriksson
Victor Hedman - Anton Strålman

Filip Forsberg - Nicklas Bäckström - *Carl Söderberg
Oliver Ekman-Larsson - Niklas Hjalmarsson

Gabriel Landeskog- *Patrick Berglund - *Joel Lundqvist

Henrik Lundqvist
Jakob Markström
*Robin Lehner


*Alexander Edler
*Jacob Silfverberg

Hehe Lundqvist? Frölunda fan? I would go something like this:

FW
Forsberg Backstrom Hörnqvist
Sedin Sedin Eriksson
Steen Zetterberg Rakell
Landeskog Söderberg Zibanejad

DF
Hedman Karlsson
OEL Strålman
Hjalmarsson Larsson or Lindholm(Hjalmarsson play RD with Lindholm)
Kronwall

G
Lundqvist
Markström
Lehner


Special teams.
5 vs 4
Forsberg Backström Landeskog Zetterberg
Karlsson

Sedin Sedin Hörnqvist
Hedman OEL

4 vs 5
Steen Zibanejad or Eriksson
Hjalmarsson Larsson

Forsberg Backström
Hedman Strålman

Landeskog Söderberg

 

[Eye of Ra]

Nyquist should not be on this team.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Sedin - Sedin - Loui
Forsberg - Bäckström - Steen
Landeskog - Söderberg - Zetterberg
Hagelin - Berglund - Hörnqvist

 

[ulvvf]

A good net presence yes.

I want Hörnqvist, Rakell, Söderberg aaand either Nyquist or Joe Hanson or maybe Hagelin. Geez tough the last ones there.

Hörnqvist and Rakell for sure and then it's pretty tough to say, lots of equal options...

If Grönborg & co are seeking role players rather than just the best players available, then maybe Kruger or Silverberg also have a chance, the latter also beeing a shootout specialist. Or some SHL player, but I dont want any SHLers, more fun with an 100% NHL team.

But we have a very good center depth, maybe not the best top since Zetterberg and Sedin is declining, but a very good depth. If we then go with a 4th liner, that is beyond bad. We have better players than him in europe.

Silfverberg I would be more ok with, he can be pretty domiant from time to time. But for me he have to have a good playoff or whc for being in the team.

Joe Hansson? Who? Do you mean Johansson?

For me there are no real locks among the forwards other then the ones that are already there. We have a good depth, there are many players that should be in the race. We have many 40-50pish players, and many young players that started off slow that are having a much better second half of the season.

 

[Tomas W]

But we have a very good center depth, maybe not the best top since Zetterberg and Sedin is declining, but a very good depth. If we then go with a 4th liner, that is beyond bad. We have better players than him in europe.

Silfverberg I would be more ok with, he can be pretty domiant from time to time. But for me he have to have a good playoff or whc for being in the team.

Joe Hansson? Who? Do you mean Johansson?

For me there are no real locks among the forwards other then the ones that are already there. We have a good depth, there are many players that should be in the race. We have many 40-50pish players, and many young players that started off slow that are having a much better second half of the season.

Joe Hanson for the extra grit. Got a few games in suspension after beeing a bit too gritty earlier in the season, but things like that just build up respect!

 

[VictorLustig]

Hampus Lindholm needs to be on this team. One of the best Swedes in the NHL right now.

 

[Tomas W]

Hampus Lindholm needs to be on this team. One of the best Swedes in the NHL right now.

Yeah but that would be on the expence of Klingberg...

Only one D spot left...

But I actually do agree, even if I think Lindholms lack of senior play with tre kronor will put him out of the team. I actually think Klingberg is going to get that last spot.

Lindholm is developing really well BOTH defensively and offensively. He's more complete than Klingberg. Klingberg obvioulsy a really good skater, he use his strong skate tecnique to dance around in the offensive zone. But the thing is, we already have good PP "quarterbacks", we dont need another. We got Lindholm instead who is good in both ends.

 

[ulvvf]

This is wrong in many ways in my opinion, especially with Stralman.

Literally, all followers of analytics loved Stralman and had Stralman as the poster boy-player for what a great d-man should be. He was already considered a shutdown-D, that could skate and contribute in any which way possible. Before Cooper even threw Stralman on the 1st pairing, stats people were literally going on rants on how Torts should be playing Stralman top pairing. I highly doubt you watch Tampas games if you think Stralman can't contribute other than defensively. He literally skates his way out of trouble or makes the perfect play. I have Stralman in my top-10 D.

OEL - Karlsson
Hedman - Stralman

That should be a locked top-4. That top-4 IMO would rival Canada's.

When did I say he can not contribute offensivly?

The point is that people are mixing up roles with actually abilities. The player that are label as offensive player are usually the best defensvily, just that it would be a waste of talent to play them in a more defensive role. Karlsson and Klingbergs is elite defensivly. I would say Karlsson absolutly is the best defensivly d-men in the world. But he has a offensive role, and people can not see pass the role (it would probably have help if he was canadian though), just like Strålman had a offensive role before Rangers. He is not a better player now, he just have a different role and have adapt to that.

If we had 6 Karlsson and OEL I would be ok with having OEL and Karlsson togehter, but now it would be a waste of talent. Let them shine in 2 different pairs instead.

 

[ulvvf]

Joe Hanson for the extra grit. Got a few games in suspension after beeing a bit too gritty earlier in the season, but things like that just build up respect!

Right now Burakovsky is hotter than Johansson, almost have as much point despite a horrible start of the season, if he has a good playoff as well he should be very close to making the team, a real goalscorer. Btw, hopefully Burakovsky will be traded next season, even if I do not think so.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

When did I say he can not contribute offensivly?

The point is that people are mixing up roles with actually abilities. The player that are label as offensive player are usually the best defensvily, just that it would be a waste of talent to play them in a more defensive role. Karlsson and Klingbergs is elite defensivly. I would say Karlsson absolutly is the best defensivly d-men in the world. But he has a offensive role, and people can not see pass the role (it would probably have help if he was canadian though), just like Strålman had a offensive role before Rangers. He is not a better player now, he just have a different role and have adapt to that.

If we had 6 Karlsson and OEL I would be ok with having OEL and Karlsson togehter, but now it would be a waste of talent. Let them shine in 2 different pairs instead.

Oh well, you said Stralman is labelled a 'defensive Dman' but is only that because he's a failed offensive Dman, or along the lines of that. Stralman is perhaps the most underrated Dman in the game, his game play reminds me of Lidstrom except without the huge frame and long stretch passes.

I agree with you, that yes the best offensive Dmen are often the greatest defensively. I would easily take both Karlsson and Subban defensively over Weber, Suter right now. But Klingberg actually isn't great defensively. He's pure offensive talent. Just like how Hjarmlsson isn't great defensively, and is pure defensive talent.

I don't see any other way possible to make the pairings work. Hedman-Stralman is a lock to play together. Stralman makes Hedman immensely better. Thus, leaving Karlsson-OEL. Unless you want to split one of them to a LOT lower minutes on the 3rd pairing.

 

[jfc64]

jimmie ericsson

 

[Nordic*]

Robert Prytz

 

[Tomas W]

Robert Prytz

Prytz?? You cant be serious....isnt he like...dead of old age?? And even if he isnt, HE'S NOT A HOCKEY PLAYER FFS!

Lets get reality, Robert Prytz, just doesnt belong on this team. Fan boy.

 

[joe89]

I don't see any other way possible to make the pairings work. Hedman-Stralman is a lock to play together. Stralman makes Hedman immensely better. Thus, leaving Karlsson-OEL. Unless you want to split one of them to a LOT lower minutes on the 3rd pairing.

Let's be honest, this tournament is likely to be played at an insane pace, so you're gonna need your third pair. And the 7th guy won't hurt, either.. I see EVS minutes rolled out rather evenly for three forward lines and three defensive pairs, the discrepancies in icetime will probably come late in the games and at special teams. If OEL is on the third pair to create a better balance, so be it. Doesn't matter too much what we label the pairs.

I agree Hedman and Strålman should stay together, though.