World Cup: 2016 World Cup — Team Canada (Part II)

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Meh I'm not surprised. Too many defensive misreads that end up in the back of the net. Can't have that in tight checking games.

People always forget teams often win game 3-2, 2-1 in these tourneys. It's playoff style Hockey. That's why Canada generally takes its best defensive forwards. Guys like Bergeron, Carter, Getzlaf, Toews who maybe aren't elite talents offensively like Giroux or Hall, but they NEVER make bad reads. Put a team of 13 forwards and 7 D that do that and it's no wonder Canada is almost impossible to score on.

Guys like Hall and Giroux are more valuable to their NHL teams because the offense they provide is so essential. But Canada first and foremost wants to be basically perfect defensively. That's why team guys like Carter, Bergeron, Crosby, Toews, Getzlaf are there. That's Canada's M.O., I know HF doesn't like it, but it's not surprising.

Good luck scoring on Holtby/Price when Canada throw out the vast majority of the best two-way players in the world. That's their philosophy.

But Giroux IS a very good defensive player. And one of the best playoff performers amongst active NHLers. And has an excellent international record.

His CF% rel since 2013-14 would be the 2nd best on this team. (after Bergeron)
He has played arguably the 2nd toughest minutes of any of the forwards selected in that time. (after Bergeron... though Getzlaf has played similar to Giroux too.)
He is an excellent PKer.

He is not some offense only guy... in fact his defense is arguably better than all but ~2-3 of the guys selected so far!
 
Armstrong straight up said its going to be 3 RD, 3 LD and then obviously one extra which is either.

That means IMO, guys like Burns, Letang, Seabrook have no chance at making the team. All of them are RD and none beat out Subban or Pietrangelo.

For the LD, I don't see realistically anyone else having a chance bar Giordano or Brodie.
 
I have no problem with the defense. Those four players were the best four defensemen at Sochi and haven't lost a step. Best part is if one starts to falter, one of the remaining three defensemen left to be named can step up in their place.

Weber has most definitely lost a step.
 
But Giroux IS a very good defensive player. And one of the best playoff performers amongst active NHLers. And has an excellent international record.

His CF% rel since 2013-14 would be the 2nd best on this team. (after Bergeron)
He has played arguably the 2nd toughest minutes of any of the forwards selected in that time. (after Bergeron... though Getzlaf has played similar to Giroux too.)
He is an excellent PKer.

He is not some offense only guy... in fact his defense is arguably better than all but ~2-3 of the guys selected so far!

I'm not slighting Giroux. He's great. I still think he'll be the 13th forward in case of an injury to the top 6 guys.

The reason Giroux doesn't make it over Carter is the same reason TJ Brodie doesn't make it over Vlasic. TJ has more of an impact in NHL games because he has such a high skill level (he's 5th or 6th in ES assists of all players, forward included) yet Vlasic is probably the better pick because he plays that no mistake game.
In no way am I saying TJ isn't a great defensive defensemen. He is. Advanced stats guys paint him as a virtual God on skates. But he makes a few more mistakes then Vlasic. No mistakes D. That's this teams M.O., has been for decades.
 
Weber has most definitely lost a step.
Yeah, Subban's better at this point.

However, there is no chance they were going to leave Weber off the initial 16 and he'll have that first pairing spot just on his international pedigree alone.

Keith-Weber
Doughty-Vlasic
Brodie-Subban
Burns

Would be what I'd go with if that top-4 is set.
 
I'm not slighting Giroux. He's great. I still think he'll be the 13th forward in case of an injury to the top 6 guys.

The reason Giroux doesn't make it over Carter is the same reason TJ Brodie doesn't make it over Vlasic. TJ has more of an impact in NHL games because he has such a high skill level (he's 5th or 6th in ES assists of all players, forward included) yet Vlasic is probably the better pick because he plays that no mistake game.
In no way am I saying TJ isn't a great defensive defensemen. He is. Advanced stats guys paint him as a virtual God on skates. But he makes a few more mistakes then Vlasic. No mistakes D. That's this teams M.O., has been for decades.

so Giroux wasn't selected on the team so far because he doesn't play mistake free hockey yet Tavares-Seguin-Stamkos-Getzlaf do?

JG is one of the top 2 way forwards in the game and it's a disgrace he keeps getting treated this way .
 
I'm not slighting Giroux. He's great. I still think he'll be the 13th forward in case of an injury to the top 6 guys.

The reason Giroux doesn't make it over Carter is the same reason TJ Brodie doesn't make it over Vlasic. TJ has more of an impact in NHL games because he has such a high skill level (he's 5th or 6th in ES assists of all players, forward included) yet Vlasic is probably the better pick because he plays that no mistake game.
In no way am I saying TJ isn't a great defensive defensemen. He is. Advanced stats guys paint him as a virtual God on skates. But he makes a few more mistakes then Vlasic. No mistakes D. That's this teams M.O., has been for decades.

Tavares and Carter play 'mistake-free' hockey?
 
This tournament is garbage, just another terrible idea from the NHL. But as for the player selection, Weber is on the team for his shot, chemistry, experience, and defensive reliability. He'll play with Brodie or Keith, players who can move the puck, not that Weber can't, but he usually passes the puck out of the zone rather than pushing it up. Keith and Vlasic, top LHDs, both great defensively and can transition the puck. Doughty fits the same description except RHD. I think a dangerous OFD could be used on this team either Burns/Subban/Letang, and then Pietrangelo for defensive depth. The LD should be Brodie, an offensive D.

Some underrated qualities like faceoff are not being talked about. Seguin, Tavares, Getzlaf, Toews, Bergeron, Crosby, Carter, Stamkos. All very good at faceoffs. I'm not surprised to see Carter there, what a valuable player he is. 6'4, can skate, shoot, plays a solid two-way game, he's basically a energy player for a international tournament. Perfect with someone like Toews. I think this team lacks a little bit of speed, they got size, defence, skill, but some speed could be used and that is where I think Duchene, Marchand could find themselves in the line-up.

4 spots left upfront. It's between Perry, O'Reilly, Duchene, Marchand, Giroux, Hall, Stone. I am going with Giroux, Marchand, Perry, and O'Reilly. On defence, 3 spots between Brodie, Pietrangelo, Subban, Letang, Burns, Giordano. The 3 for me are Brodie, Pietrangelo, and Subban.

Canada's depth is as strong as ever in my opinion, a lot of players of different variety.
 
I'm not slighting Giroux. He's great. I still think he'll be the 13th forward in case of an injury to the top 6 guys.

The reason Giroux doesn't make it over Carter is the same reason TJ Brodie doesn't make it over Vlasic. TJ has more of an impact in NHL games because he has such a high skill level (he's 5th or 6th in ES assists of all players, forward included) yet Vlasic is probably the better pick because he plays that no mistake game.
In no way am I saying TJ isn't a great defensive defensemen. He is. Advanced stats guys paint him as a virtual God on skates. But he makes a few more mistakes then Vlasic. No mistakes D. That's this teams M.O., has been for decades.

Giroux was used as the shut down center at the WC for Canada, was named MVP of the gold medal game and was something like a +12 in the tournament. Not to shabby for a guy who is solely an "offensive" player.
 
This tournament is garbage, just another terrible idea from the NHL. But as for the player selection, Weber is on the team for his shot, chemistry, experience, and defensive reliability. He'll play with Brodie or Keith, players who can move the puck, not that Weber can't, but he usually passes the puck out of the zone rather than pushing it up. Keith and Vlasic, top LHDs, both great defensively and can transition the puck. Doughty fits the same description except RHD. I think a dangerous OFD could be used on this team either Burns/Subban/Letang, and then Pietrangelo for defensive depth. The LD should be Brodie, an offensive D.

Some underrated qualities like faceoff are not being talked about. Seguin, Tavares, Getzlaf, Toews, Bergeron, Crosby, Carter, Stamkos. All very good at faceoffs. I'm not surprised to see Carter there, what a valuable player he is. 6'4, can skate, shoot, plays a solid two-way game, he's basically a energy player for a international tournament. Perfect with someone like Toews. I think this team lacks a little bit of speed, they got size, defence, skill, but some speed could be used and that is where I think Duchene, Marchand could find themselves in the line-up.

4 spots left upfront. It's between Perry, O'Reilly, Duchene, Marchand, Giroux, Hall, Stone. I am going with Giroux, Marchand, Perry, and O'Reilly. On defence, 3 spots between Brodie, Pietrangelo, Subban, Letang, Burns, Giordano. The 3 for me are Brodie, Pietrangelo, and Subban.

Canada's depth is as strong as ever in my opinion, a lot of players of different variety.

[table="head,sort1d,2,3,4,5;autonumtitle=rank;width=25em"]|FO%|Attempts|DZFO%|Attempts
Toews|58.8|1238|52.1|330
Duchene|58.2|567|55.1|156
Bergeron|57.0|1544|54.4|583
O'Reilly|57.0|1489|53.0|558
Giroux|56.9|1413|63.9|463
Tavares|55.3|1034|55.4|186
Crosby|52.4|1445|56.8|391
Stamkos|49.5|743|49.0|249
Getzlaf|49.2|899|51.7|232
Carter|48.8|953|47.7|281

[/table]

So much so that even Team Canada overlooked them.
 
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If you read the last few pages of this thread you would think Carter is a top Selke-tier player.

No, but he is responsible defensively and plays a strong 2-way game. Again, this was all on display in 2014. He can plug in at wing or center, so his versatility is a plus too.
 
I wish I could say I was surprised Subban was left off, but I'm not. Even though he's better than any RHD Canada has to offer, there is this weird stigma around him that he's this high risk player when the opposite is true.

Oh well. Another uphill battle for P.K. that he'll overcome. Then something else will come up and he'll overcome that as well. The story of his career.
 
[table="head,sort1d,2,3,4,5;autonumtitle=rank;width=25em"]|GFO%|Attempts|DFO%|Attempts
Toews|58.8|1238|52.1|330
Duchene|58.2|567|55.1|156
Bergeron|57.0|1544|54.4|583
O'Reilly|57.0|1489|53.0|558
Giroux|56.9|1413|63.9|463
Tavares|55.3|1034|55.4|186
Crosby|52.4|1445|56.8|391
Stamkos|49.5|743|49.0|249
Getzlaf|49.2|899|51.7|232
Carter|48.8|953|47.7|281

[/table]

So much so that even Team Canada overlooked them.
Only so much room for certain type of players and centres. He's not competing with centres, he's competing with smaller, quicker, skilled players.
 
If I'm Armstrong, I'm taking 8 D-men.

Canada will have at least 13 forwards. If something were to happen and 2 got injured, it shouldn't be an issue to dress 11 F and 7 D with the level of talent Canada has up front. Having to rotate someone through the line-up when the 4th line goes out shouldn't be an issue for a team with forwards of this caliber.

Now that we know 16 out of 23, here's my picks for the rest of Team Canada, including lines:

Benn - Crosby - Stamkos
Tavares - Toews - Carter
Hall - Getzlaf - Perry
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin

Extra: O'Reilly

Keith - Weber
Vlasic - Doughty
Giordano - Pietrangelo

Extras: Brodie, Subban

Price
Holtby
Crawford
 
Aside from Weber, who I believe has lost a step, this roster is great. I would like to see Subban round out the next round of selections to make up for it.

Aside from that, nothing much for a Canucks fan to cheer for but that't he way it goes these days. Might cheer for Sweden, honestly.
 
If you read the last few pages of this thread you would think Carter is a top Selke-tier player.

The real question is why do you dislike him so much that you keep posting about Carter?

At some point, you have to wonder why Canada keeps inviting him and accept the reasoning instead of trying to crap on a player you don't understand...it helps if you TRY to understand.
 
Only so much room for certain type of players and centres. He's not competing with centres, he's competing with smaller, quicker, skilled players.

I agree. Giroux is not going to beat out Bergeron, Crosby, Getzlaf, and or Toews at Center on this team. These are the 4 that Centered the most dominating Gold medal team since NHL players were allowed to play in the tournament.

The team scored 17 GF and allowed only 3 GA the entire tournament. It was simply a team that was dominating. Absolutely no reason to mess with the chemistry of this team's core.

IMO Giroux is competing for a bottom 3 role on this team. He will perhaps get St Louis' spot on this team this time around.

Really there is little to critique Armstrong for in his roster decisions at this point. Carter has always represented Canada extremely well, he is a terrific winger/center, he has a history of winning while being a key contributor with multiple Golds for his country, and 2 Cup to his credit. He recently led all fwds in points at Sochi. He's earned his spot in the top 16.

There is no reason why Giroux should be picked in front of him.
 
But Giroux IS a very good defensive player. And one of the best playoff performers amongst active NHLers. And has an excellent international record.

His CF% rel since 2013-14 would be the 2nd best on this team. (after Bergeron)
He has played arguably the 2nd toughest minutes of any of the forwards selected in that time. (after Bergeron... though Getzlaf has played similar to Giroux too.)
He is an excellent PKer.

He is not some offense only guy... in fact his defense is arguably better than all but ~2-3 of the guys selected so far!

Couldnt agree more, putting him in the same league as Hall is insulting. Doesnt make sense why they keep taking him off the team.

Cant believe Carter made it over Corey Perry either.
 
I agree. Giroux is not going to beat out Bergeron, Crosby, Getzlaf, and or Toews at Center on this team. These are the 4 that Centered the most dominating Gold medal team since NHL players were allowed to play in the tournament.

The team scored 17 GF and allowed only 3 GA the entire tournament. It was simply a team that was dominating. Absolutely no reason to mess with the chemistry of this team's core.

IMO Giroux is competing for a bottom 3 role on this team. He will perhaps get St Louis' spot on this team this time around.

Really there is little to critique Armstrong for in his roster decisions at this point. Carter has always represented Canada extremely well, he is a terrific winger/center, he has a history of winning while being a key contributor with multiple Golds for his country, and 2 Cup to his credit. He recently led all fwds in points at Sochi. He's earned his spot in the top 16.

There is no reason why Giroux should be picked in front of him.

Dont dissagree with your Carter breakdown but common NO reason?...
 
Dont dissagree with your Carter breakdown but common NO reason?...

With Perry not on the core 16. He too has been part of the back to back gold medal teams. I would have to say there are others that are ahead of Giroux at this time also.

For full disclosure, I would have Carter ahead of Perry also.

If you take into account last year's Worlds team. Taylor Hall may be another choice. 7 goals to finish 2nd on the team to Seguin's 9. Duchene and Eberle(who is another that always does very well for Canada Internationally) also were 2nd and 3rd in points on this team.

There are plenty of choices for Canada, almost an embarrassment of riches.
 
wow they really dont like Hall and Giroux do they? It's criminal they're left off the roster.

If O'Reilly and/or Marchand are selected it's an absolute farce. Hall an Crosby are gray together and Giroux with Seguin at the worlds was dynamite

I'm down for this lineup

Tavares-Toews-Stamkos
Hall-Crosby-Bergeron
Benn-Seguin-Giroux
Duchene-Getzlaf-Perry
Carter

Keith-Weber
Vlasic-Doughty
Brodie-Subban
Burns

Price
Holtby
Crawford
 
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