Speculation: 2016 NHL Entry Draft Discussion (Part III)

[Aavco Cup]

https://www.nhl.com/news/pierre-luc-dubois-2016-nhl-draft-q-and-a/c-280289414?tid=277764372

NHL.com: What forward position are you most comfortable playing? Who were your linemates in the QMJHL playoffs?

Dubois: "I like playing center, but if I were put on wing I'd probably prefer right wing. But wherever I'm needed, I'm willing to play at that position. We have a really good team here and made a lot of good trades in December, so the fact I've been playing with really skilled guys has been good. I've been playing with Evgeny Svechnikov (Detroit Red Wings, No. 19, 2015 draft) and Maxim Lazarev lately. It's really easy playing with them. They've played together since early on, so they have a lot of chemistry and I just happen to jump in, and I feel the three of us made a really good line."

 

[surixon]

https://www.nhl.com/news/pierre-luc-dubois-2016-nhl-draft-q-and-a/c-280289414?tid=277764372

NHL.com: What forward position are you most comfortable playing? Who were your linemates in the QMJHL playoffs?

Dubois: "I like playing center, but if I were put on wing I'd probably prefer right wing. But wherever I'm needed, I'm willing to play at that position. We have a really good team here and made a lot of good trades in December, so the fact I've been playing with really skilled guys has been good. I've been playing with Evgeny Svechnikov (Detroit Red Wings, No. 19, 2015 draft) and Maxim Lazarev lately. It's really easy playing with them. They've played together since early on, so they have a lot of chemistry and I just happen to jump in, and I feel the three of us made a really good line."

I definitely hope we can get this guy if we don't land the 1st overall pick. He'd fit in wither at C or RW.

 

[Aavco Cup]

I definitely hope we can get this guy if we don't land the 1st overall pick. He'd fit in wither at C or RW.

And central scouting has him listed as a LW

 

[Aavco Cup]

Th 1st overall pick was just traded in the NFL.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Holy crap they paid a premium for that pick

 

[ps241]

I definitely hope we can get this guy if we don't land the 1st overall pick. He'd fit in wither at C or RW.

So are you in the boat of taking him as early as the 2nd pick now?

 

[lomiller1]

A lot of people think Juolevi is really good (and better than Chychrun). I wonder why so many Jets fans don't seem to like him that much. I really liked him at the WJHC, but can't comment much more about him.

I’d rather have Juolevi. To me Chychrun has a bit of a Bogo vibe to him. I’m not really convinced he’s more than a 2/3.

 

[ps241]

I’d rather have Juolevi. To me Chychrun has a bit of a Bogo vibe to him. I’m not really convinced he’s more than a 2/3.

I heard the Bogo comp from Button and it seems to have gained traction. What is it that makes you draw that comparison lomiller1? Not meaning to single you out I am just curious.

 

[drumzan]

Th 1st overall pick was just traded in the NFL.

In a V-E-R-Y weak draft. Great haul for Titans.

 

[scelaton]

Fun quiz:
Here are HF bios on two defensemen taken in the 2008 draft.
1)Guess who they are
2)Guess whose career arc Chychrun's will turn out to more closely emulate.
PS-If you really know the answer to 2), you are either smarter than me....or a bull*******

History
1. 2007-08: After being drafted in the first round of the 2006 OHL Priority Draft------- was a solid performer for the ------ during the 2006-07 season. …. tied for fifth on his team for assists and recorded almost a half point a game as a rookie. --- ---was named an alternate captain for the 2007-08 season, and he responded by leading the team in scoring and finishing second overall among league defensemen with 50 assists. Named an OHL All-Star, ---played in the CHL Top Prospects Game and was voted top defensive defenseman in the OHL Coaches poll (tied with Geoff Killing), second among offensive blueliners and third in both the league’s smartest player and hardest worker categories

---------------------------------------------------------


History
2. 2006-07: Playing as a rookie ---finished in the top 10 amongst OHL rookies in points with 52 (seven goals, 45 assists). He was also in the top 15 in points among OHL defenseman. He led all -------- defenseman and rookies in goals, assists, points and plus/minus with a +40. Despite his stellar regular season--- struggled in the playoffs. In four games--- failed to record a point and had a plus/minus of -7.

2007-08: ----- became one of the top defensive prospects in the OHL. He was a participant in the Canada-Russia Summit Series, was ranked fifth overall, and the third highest ranked defenseman by NHL Central Scouting. ------eclipsed his goal total from last season and improved on his point total and plus/minus. His strong play was rewarded by being named to the --- Conference All-Star squad at the All-Star Classic

 

[Huffer]

In the London games that I have been able to catch on TV I have never come away that impressed with him. His point totals given the caliber of the knights are also pretty meh. I have been more impressed with Chychrin in the games I've seen him play.

This to me as well. I liked him at the Juniors but I'm not really convinced he'll be a number 1. I'm also not impressed by the reports from Knights fans, especially for a guy potentially taken that earlier in the draft.

Personally, I like Chychrun over Juolevi as Chychrun by all accounts has had to handle much more of a load due to the nature of the talent disparities on their teams. Chychrun has had to log much more time and and despite a slow start (which could have been affected by his off season shoulder surgery) came on extremely strong in the second half.

I see more myself in Chychrun to possibly become a top pairing D man capable of playing 20+ minutes a night in the NHL than I do from Julolevi. Sergachov also seems to have more of the tools to me over Juloevi as well, especially if he can get his effort to be more consistent.

Juolevi, or even an entirely different D could become the best D in the draft. Personally, if we're taking a D, I'm just much more comfortable with what Chychrun brings.

 

[garret9]

Doughty and Bogosian?

 

[scelaton]

Doughty and Bogosian?

keep guessing folks, don't cheat, and tell us which you think is which......:

....and which sounds more like Chych...and Juolevi, for that matter...

 

[garret9]

keep guessing folks, don't cheat, and tell us which you think is which......:

....and which sounds more like Chych...and Juolevi, for that matter...

I know the 50 assists is Bogosian. Just not sure of the other.

Since he's ranked high, and not Doughty, it has to be Pietrangelo and Schenn.
I don't believe Schenn was every a scorer, and why he shouldn't have been drafted so high, so I'm going to guess Alex.

 

[Huffer]

I heard the Bogo comp from Button and it seems to have gained traction. What is it that makes you draw that comparison lomiller1? Not meaning to single you out I am just curious.

Personally I look at a Bogo comp as a positive. That's if the comparison is to what Bogo was as a prospect, and not using Bogo now as a projection.

Bogo was an amazing D prospect. He was a physical specimen that put up points. It was unknown who would go first between Bogo and Doughty as the first D taken he was that good.

Bogo to me could, and should be better than he is right now. It's impossible to know if he's at his max, or if factors along the way (injuries, coaches like Torchetti, etc) caused him to reach much less than his ceiling.

If Button is saying Chych's potential is what Bogo is now, I would be underwhelmed. If he's saying he reminds him of Bogo when Bogo was a junior then I am thrilled.

 

[Aavco Cup]

I got a chance to watch Chycrun live twice this week. He has a very well rounded game not really weak in any area. I'd be fine if we ended up with him on our roster.

I also like Fabbro and Bitten. Didn't like Laberge at all and Mcleod didn't look like a top ten pick to me.

So how about?

7 Chychrun
20ish Fabbro
36 Bitten

 

[ps241]

Personally I look at a Bogo comp as a positive. That's if the comparison is to what Bogo was as a prospect, and not using Bogo now as a projection.

Bogo was an amazing D prospect. He was a physical specimen that put up points. It was unknown who would go first between Bogo and Doughty as the first D taken he was that good.

Bogo to me could, and should be better than he is right now. It's impossible to know if he's at his max, or if factors along the way (injuries, coaches like Torchetti, etc) caused him to reach much less than his ceiling.

If Button is saying Chych's potential is what Bogo is now, I would be underwhelmed. If he's saying he reminds him of Bogo when Bogo was a junior then I am thrilled.

Thanks for this post and its why I asked lomiller1 the question.

Over on the main board I asked a leaf poster I respect the same question because he used the Bogo comp without context and when I pressed him this is what he replied:

Was using it more as a baseline, as I don't think Chychrun is a sure thing like Doughty and Ekblad were (best D out of the OHL in the past decade), then there is the 2nd tier of Pietrangelo, Bogosian, and Chychrun. Behind that there are the high-end but semi-risky offensive guys (Hamilton and Cam Fowler), high end shutdown (Nurse and Gudbranson), steady all-around (Maatta, Ceci) which are all a 3rd tier jest broken up into top 4 roles. Finally very-high risk but offensively gifted (Ellis, Murphy, DeAngelo and Del Zoto), lower quality all around (Percy, Bigras, De Haan) and a group to itself tantalizing project (Zadorov).

Personally I'd say Chychrun is in the Bogosian/Pietrangelo grouping, Jueolevi falls into the Maatta grouping but at the top of it, and Sergachev falls into the Hamilton grouping

In this context I look at it as a pretty big compliment.

 

[ps241]

I got a chance to watch Chycrun live twice this week. He has a very well rounded game not really weak in any area. I'd be fine if we ended up with him on our riater.

I also like Fabbro and Bitten. Didn't like Laberge at all and Mcleod didn't look like a top ten pick to me.

So how about?

7 Chychrun
20ish Fabbro
36 Bitten

I came away "extremely impressed" with Fabbro and if we landed him with our 2nd pick I would lose my ****. However I place the odds of that happening similar to Connor falling to us last year at 17. I will need to see Juolevi play for the rest of the playoffs but at this snap shot in time I would chose Fabbro before him.

 

[lomiller1]

I heard the Bogo comp from Button and it seems to have gained traction. What is it that makes you draw that comparison lomiller1? Not meaning to single you out I am just curious.

I didn’t see Button’s comment this is just my own observation. He seems like a guy who is advanced beyond his peers in wrt to physical tools and depends that for success. Players who succeed in junior because they are bigger/stronger/faster usually won’t be able to replicate that in the NHL and will tend to fade as their CHL peers catch up physically. Physical tools are important but can mask deficiencies, which can be tricky. Maybe Chychrun does have the vision, skill and hockey IQ needed to be a top D at the NHL level but I can’t help feeling that if he had that as well as a tools/maturity advantage he’d be much more dominant than he is

 

[Huffer]

Thanks for this post and its why I asked lomiller1 the question.

Over on the main board I asked a leaf poster I respect the same question because he used the Bogo comp without context and when I pressed him this is what he replied:

In this context I look at it as a pretty big compliment.

Agree PS. I agree with a lot of that posters comment, but what I find interesting is that he's touting Doughty as sure thing and Bogo in the 2nd tier. Those two have certainly gone much different in their time since being juniors, but that's not how I remember that draft. They were neck and neck.

Here's one ranking where Bogo was #2
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/draft/draftranks08.html

And a mock draft from the hockey news where a team traded up to 2 to take him there:
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/16676-The-Hockey-News-2008-Mock-Draft.html

And here's a mock draft where Bogo AP goes 2, Bogo 3, Filatov 4 and Doughty 5:
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/10421/hockeys_future_staff_mock_draft2008/

 

[Rheged]

I got a chance to watch Chycrun live twice this week. He has a very well rounded game not really weak in any area. I'd be fine if we ended up with him on our roster.

I also like Fabbro and Bitten. Didn't like Laberge at all and Mcleod didn't look like a top ten pick to me.

So how about?

7 Chychrun
20ish Fabbro
36 Bitten

I think Bitten's season was pretty dang impressive given what a poop show it was in Flint.

 

[ps241]

I didn’t see Button’s comment this is just my own observation. He seems like a guy who is advanced beyond his peers in wrt to physical tools and depends that for success. Players who succeed in junior because they are bigger/stronger/faster usually won’t be able to replicate that in the NHL and will tend to fade as their CHL peers catch up physically. Physical tools are important but can mask deficiencies, which can be tricky. Maybe Chychrun does have the vision, skill and hockey IQ needed to be a top D at the NHL level but I can’t help feeling that if he had that as well as a tools/maturity advantage he’d be much more dominant than he is

Its a fair point and one that is tough to get a full grasp on for me. I remember this as being one of the primary knocks on Ekblad as well for those that had some doubts. I guess it could be called the Sean Day syndrome .

I went out to watch fearing this exact thing and also expecting to see a guy that might have some hockey IQ issues. Here is my breakdown of how I think it may or may not apply to Chychrun from my single solitary live viewing.

Size: He may be physically mature already but I was stunned by how many other big kids were on the ice the other night. Jacob didn't really stand out as oversized by any means more as a good sized player. Yea other players may catch up a bit but I didn't see this as being his secret sauce and the club he was beating kids up with.

Skating: His skating is a very big strength but in my opinion like Ehlers it is going to translate very well to the NHL because it is already there. Think of Cam Fowler or Hampus Lindholm who both had highly rated skating in their draft year of coarse it will be less of a gap at the NHL but in a similar fashion to the aforementioned this will continue to an advantage at the NHL level.

With Bogosian I didn't see him in juniors but my guess is he imposed his will and probably played a style where he rushed the puck allot and was heavily involved in generating offense then when he got to the NHL he had to modify that style. Watching Chychrun I didn't find that to be the case at all. He played a pretty clean structured game that stylistically would be plug and play into NHL systems. He was not Jack Johnson at Michigan with a green light to roam. On occasion Jacob would press the play but he wasn't dominating in an end to end fashion that might catch up with him at the next level IMO.

To me one of the things I liked is yes Chychrun is a 200 foot player but his defense is "excellent". Great gap control, very good awareness for the most part, he is a plus at puck retrieval, very good at all aspects of the transition game. I am not saying he is a defensive defenseman but as I mentioned before more of a Hampus Lindholm modern prototype.

 

[Boxertim]

Would Bogo have been better off to stay in junior for a few more years. Maybe a bit less wear and tear on a young body against adults and more time to learn the game?

 

[surixon]

So are you in the boat of taking him as early as the 2nd pick now?

That's tough. I'm unsure if I'd take him or Laine.

 

[lomiller1]

Its a fair point and one that is tough to get a full grasp on for me. I remember this as being one of the primary knocks on Ekblad as well for those that had some doubts. I guess it could be called the Sean Day syndrome .

I went out to watch fearing this exact thing and also expecting to see a guy that might have some hockey IQ issues. Here is my breakdown of how I think it may or may not apply to Chychrun from my single solitary live viewing.

Size: He may be physically mature already but I was stunned by how many other big kids were on the ice the other night. Jacob didn't really stand out as oversized by any means more as a good sized player. Yea other players may catch up a bit but I didn't see this as being his secret sauce and the club he was beating kids up with.

Skating: His skating is a very big strength but in my opinion like Ehlers it is going to translate very well to the NHL because it is already there. Think of Cam Fowler or Hampus Lindholm who both had highly rated skating in their draft year of coarse it will be less of a gap at the NHL but in a similar fashion to the aforementioned this will continue to an advantage at the NHL level.

With Bogosian I didn't see him in juniors but my guess is he imposed his will and probably played a style where he rushed the puck allot and was heavily involved in generating offense then when he got to the NHL he had to modify that style. Watching Chychrun I didn't find that to be the case at all. He played a pretty clean structured game that stylistically would be plug and play into NHL systems. He was not Jack Johnson at Michigan with a green light to roam. On occasion Jacob would press the play but he wasn't dominating in an end to end fashion that might catch up with him at the next level IMO.

To me one of the things I liked is yes Chychrun is a 200 foot player but his defense is "excellent". Great gap control, very good awareness for the most part, he is a plus at puck retrieval, very good at all aspects of the transition game. I am not saying he is a defensive defenseman but as I mentioned before more of a Hampus Lindholm modern prototype.

IMO the knock on Ekblad was that he wasn’t an elite skater, but to me that almost works in his favor. Unlike a F, a D can put up offensive numbers just because they are bigger and stronger. The fact that he was only an ok skater suggested there was something else behind his numbers. (This could have been his shot though). I worry more about the guys who are big, but not really big by NHL standards and great skaters because in the CHL they can take the puck and pretty much do whatever they want offensively at that level but probably won’t in the NHL.


It does cut both ways a little. That skill set could mask an abundance of hockey IQ just as easily as it could mask a lack of hockey IQ so I could easily be mistaken about him. I’d be happy to get him at 9/10 but for where we are likely to pick I’d rather look for a guy who projects well physically but isn’t quite there yet and still puts good numbers. With these guys it’s a little more clear there is no deficiency on the hockey IQ side, so as long as they don’t look like they are liable to hit some physical or attitude roadblock they should be pretty good players.