Line Combos: 2016-2017 Kings Roster

[bob77]

McNabb Doughty
Muzzin Martinez
Forbort Gilbert
Gravel

Scuderi, Greene, Trotman, LaDue, McDermid sent down.

As exciting as LaDue has been, he's not going to take over Doughty role on right side. I'd give Greene a better chance because DS might think he can use him for PK and limited minutes. If both Forbort and Gravel get to play a bit, it could be at what point do you realize McNabb doesn't skate like the other two. Would McNabb struggle if paired with Gilbert? Would either Forbort or Gravel be more suited to play with Doughty? Does Amart or Gravel play the right side at all this year? Stay tuned!

 

[The Tikkanen]

McNabb Doughty
Muzzin Martinez
Forbort Gilbert
Gravel

Scuderi, Greene, Trotman, LaDue, McDermid sent down.

As exciting as LaDue has been, he's not going to take over Doughty role on right side. I'd give Greene a better chance because DS might think he can use him for PK and limited minutes. If both Forbort and Gravel get to play a bit, it could be at what point do you realize McNabb doesn't skate like the other two. Would McNabb struggle if paired with Gilbert? Would either Forbort or Gravel be more suited to play with Doughty? Does Amart or Gravel play the right side at all this year? Stay tuned!

The bottom 3 will come down to who can play a solid, defensively responsible, nasty 10 minutes a night plus PK work and who can be sent down without clearing waivers.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

The bottom 3 will come down to who can play a solid, defensively responsible, nasty 10 minutes a night plus PK work and who can be sent down without clearing waivers.

As efhank suggested, they might decide to start out with Gilbert and see how it goes. 4 assists in 2 games. But overall, I'm not sure how his game is now. If Tikkanen is right, they might keep Greene for his strong PK work, even with his penalties.

I'm sure Jason Lewis will bring it up later, but wow, our centers ruled the face-off dot. There are finally open roster spots this season and the prospects came prepared.

 

[bob77]

As efhank suggested, they might decide to start out with Gilbert and see how it goes. 4 assists in 2 games. But overall, I'm not sure how his game is now. If Tikkanen is right, they might keep Greene for his strong PK work, even with his penalties.

I'm sure Jason Lewis will bring it up later, but wow, our centers ruled the face-off dot. There are finally open roster spots this season and the prospects came prepared.

I thought it ultimately was a difficult game to make roster decisions on because so many players did well. The Ducks squad was lacking almost all their stars. The Kings could have easily scored a dozen goals. It was that easy.

 

[bob77]

The bottom 3 will come down to who can play a solid, defensively responsible, nasty 10 minutes a night plus PK work and who can be sent down without clearing waivers.

Forbort, Scuderi, Gilbert, Greene, and Trotman have to clear waivers to play at Ontario. Gravel and McDermid don't. Scuderi and Greene probably clear waivers. Scuderi is washed up and Greene is not a value pickup at 2.5 cap hit. Some team might take Gilbert, but probably viewed as risky after being injured. Plus 1.5 or so cap hit. Forbort and Trotman are the two unlikely to clear waivers. 650k cap hit is attractive for both. Forbort seems to be just hitting his stride as a former 15 overall pick. That will get attention. Trotman has the coveted right shot, plus a half season last year. Maybe Trotman will clear, but I would find it hard to believe that all 29 teams would pass on Forbort. Is it too late for DL to get anything for him in a trade, or do teams that are actually interested just wait to see if he is available on waivers. DL in the past has been all about asset management. That's why LaDue and Gravel are going to Ontario.

 

[mattgkg]

wonder who gets cut today. gonna be interesting.

 

[Trolfoli]

Would you do Martinez + 2nd +3rd for Lindholm?

I was pointing out from an offersheet compensation stand point, offersheeting Lindholm would make a lot of sense for a playoff bound team. What are the thoughts on swapping Lindholm (22) for Martinez (29)?

A 5 year $7M would cost a 1st + 2nd + 3rd. Then trade Martinez to make space recouping some of the value for the picks. I'd be in favor of cutting 4M+ from other areas of the roster first, but those may not be viable.

 

[Brodeur]

Lombardi going the offer sheet route would seem unlikely. Plus Anaheim would likely begrudgingly match anyways.

 

[tsanuri]

Would you do Martinez + 2nd +3rd for Lindholm?

I was pointing out from an offersheet compensation stand point, offersheeting Lindholm would make a lot of sense for a playoff bound team. What are the thoughts on swapping Lindholm (22) for Martinez (29)?

A 5 year $7M would cost a 1st + 2nd + 3rd. Then trade Martinez to make space recouping some of the value for the picks. I'd be in favor of cutting 4M+ from other areas of the roster first, but those may not be viable.

Players don't really like offer sheets any more than most owners and GM's. Players loose the option of being able to get NTC/NMC on the UFA years they sign for. Since the team if they match doesn't have to give it to them.
So you might sign an offer sheet that has a clause in it and take less but the team you are on decides to match and then doesn't have to include it. They only must match the money and years.
So it's not a win for players either.
Then there is the issue of does it create a rift between you and the team?

 

[AlphaBravo]

Would you do Martinez + 2nd +3rd for Lindholm?

I was pointing out from an offersheet compensation stand point, offersheeting Lindholm would make a lot of sense for a playoff bound team. What are the thoughts on swapping Lindholm (22) for Martinez (29)?

A 5 year $7M would cost a 1st + 2nd + 3rd. Then trade Martinez to make space recouping some of the value for the picks. I'd be in favor of cutting 4M+ from other areas of the roster first, but those may not be viable.

No. I don't understand these Martinez + offers for Lindholm or Trouba or name any other top 4 defenseman that some Kings fans keep proposing. The problem we have on defense is not Martinez, its the lack of another Top 4. If we trade Martinez in a deal, we end up adding more cap space without actually filling a hole.

 

[Trolfoli]

Players don't really like offer sheets any more than most owners and GM's. Players loose the option of being able to get NTC/NMC on the UFA years they sign for. Since the team if they match doesn't have to give it to them.
So you might sign an offer sheet that has a clause in it and take less but the team you are on decides to match and then doesn't have to include it. They only must match the money and years.
So it's not a win for players either.
Then there is the issue of does it create a rift between you and the team?

Yeah... the offersheets have issues... but if the Ducks are offering less money he may sign it to force their hand. The Ducks are a budget team. Them sinking 7M into Lindholm is coming out of somewhere else even if they do match.

At 22 Lindholm isn't losing that many UFA years without a NTC.

Just comes down to money. 1st game of the season comes around and Lindholm has an offersheet he can sign at say $7M or he can wait around for the Ducks to up their offer, maybe he signs. Even if he doesn't it gives him leverage in the negotiation.

No. I don't understand these Martinez + offers for Lindholm or Trouba or name any other top 4 defenseman that some Kings fans keep proposing. The problem we have on defense is not Martinez, its the lack of another Top 4. If we trade Martinez in a deal, we end up adding more cap space without actually filling a hole.

Easy. Kings are going into a retool... The Trouba one is to balance out the L/R and fill a position that the Kings don't currently have someone to fill in the next 2 years. Lindholm wouldn't fix the balance, but jacking him from the Ducks or forcing the Ducks to pay more then they want makes the Ducks worse and helps the Kings.

Also both players are younger. If the Kings need to retool the D, they might as well get some younger guys. It would be nice to get another top 4D in addition, but with the expansion draft coming up and Brown's contract that isn't looking like an option right now. So improve what you can now.

I'd do Martinez + 2nd +3rd for Lindholm all day long and laugh at the Ducks personally.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Yeah... the offersheets have issues... but if the Ducks are offering less money he may sign it to force their hand. The Ducks are a budget team. Them sinking 7M into Lindholm is coming out of somewhere else even if they do match.

At 22 Lindholm isn't losing that many UFA years without a NTC.

Just comes down to money. 1st game of the season comes around and Lindholm has an offersheet he can sign at say $7M or he can wait around for the Ducks to up their offer, maybe he signs. Even if he doesn't it gives him leverage in the negotiation.



Easy. Kings are going into a retool... The Trouba one is to balance out the L/R and fill a position that the Kings don't currently have someone to fill in the next 2 years. Lindholm wouldn't fix the balance, but jacking him from the Ducks or forcing the Ducks to pay more then they want makes the Ducks worse and helps the Kings.

Also both players are younger. If the Kings need to retool the D, they might as well get some younger guys. It would be nice to get another top 4D in addition, but with the expansion draft coming up and Brown's contract that isn't looking like an option right now. So improve what you can now.

I'd do Martinez + 2nd +3rd for Lindholm all day long and laugh at the Ducks personally.

We wouldnt get full value for martinez if teams knew we had to dump salary would we?

 

[Brodeur]

We wouldnt get full value for martinez if teams knew we had to dump salary would we?

San Jose/Chicago arguably had to sell low on Ehrhoff/Leddy to get cap compliant.

 

[King'sPawn]

San Jose/Chicago arguably had to sell low on Ehrhoff/Leddy to get cap compliant.

Heck, New Jersey needed to include a 1st to get someone to take Malakov (or was it Mogilny? Maybe both). Also, the Flyers tacked on a 3rd so the Kings would take Roenick.

 

[Trolfoli]

This is how I see the D.

****/Doughty
Martinez/****
*****/*****

The most important part is being able to move the puck out of the D-zone. You can have 2 great defenders like Mitchell/Greene, but paired together they get stuck in their own zone. They defend great, but the inability to get the puck out of the D-zone leads to more D-zone time. Leads to more time for mistakes, bounces, penalties. Being able to get the puck out is the most important part. Just look at last years playoffs with Doughty being the only guy that could get the puck up ice.

You need 2 good PMD and 1 ok PMD for the 3rd pair. Kings have LaDue and maybe Gravel that can hold that position down on the 3rd pair. If they play over that position on cheap contracts, great the Kings have a rocked out Defense.

Martinez: He's had a few concussions at this point, he's 29, him and Muzzin are both LHD. Martinez playing his off side hurts moving the puck up the ice. He can do it, but it makes him pass to the center on his back hand and leads to the occasional **** up. Kings should find a Muzzin clone to pair with Martinez for the Right side or move Muzzin to the right. The numbers will reflect that this probably isn't all that important. The numbers don't matter. In the playoffs it can come down to a single play. Minimizing "bad bounces" matters a lot more then numbers over the season.

Muzzin: Don't have the depth to play him with Doughty. Teams will just exploit the second D pair. He should have a puck moving RHD to play with. Kings don't have that. I don't see any available for trade. LaDue might be that in 2 years... no guarantee.

They can just run Muzzin/Martinez. The point I guess is, if you are going into a retool then start by building it right. Get younger so you have guys that will be around. Bring in the pieces needed for the foundation. That was Doughty/Voynov/Martinez last time. Then fill in with the vets like Scuderi/Mitchell/Regehr that you can pick up easier.

Also I don't see waiting 2 year to see if someone can fill the hole on the right side second pair is an option. This team has a limited time frame before things fall apart more.

 

[Trolfoli]

We wouldnt get full value for martinez if teams knew we had to dump salary would we?

It could hurt the value a little, but there are teams desperate for D. As long as you have a couple bidding it should be fine.

Edit: If the market for D is that soft you can't get a first (or equivalent) for Martinez, the Kings need to be getting a top 4D on the cheap right ****ing now! lol

 

[Brodeur]

Heck, New Jersey needed to include a 1st to get someone to take Malakov (or was it Mogilny? Maybe both). Also, the Flyers tacked on a 3rd so the Kings would take Roenick.

Yeah, it was Vladimir Malakhov (unofficially retired, but his cap hit counted) +protected 1st for Korolyuk (was playing in Russia) and Jim Fahey. Slightly different time since most teams were hard against the cap in 2006.

 

[TheBannermen]

Still trying to figure out what Trouba has done to warrant such returns and an accompanying egregious contract. Yes he's 22, but he has a lot of work to do before he's even a top pairing d-man.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Still trying to figure out what Trouba has done to warrant such returns and an accompanying egregious contract. Yes he's 22, but he has a lot of work to do before he's even a top pairing d-man.

Completely agree. Some people are making him out to be another Ekblad, when he is probably closer to being another Myers or Bogosian.

I would like to see the Kings try him out just to see what this coaching staff could turn him into, but he's far from a proven commodity and isn't worth some outrageous amount of money. Least not yet.

 

[kingsfan28]

Still trying to figure out what Trouba has done to warrant such returns and an accompanying egregious contract. Yes he's 22, but he has a lot of work to do before he's even a top pairing d-man.

I'm glad someone else brought this up. He's good, but man, I just don't see him as a 7 mil a year dman just because his peer are getting that kind of money.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

How has Seto looked? Think he makes it?

 

[AlphaBravo]

Yeah... the offersheets have issues... but if the Ducks are offering less money he may sign it to force their hand. The Ducks are a budget team. Them sinking 7M into Lindholm is coming out of somewhere else even if they do match.

At 22 Lindholm isn't losing that many UFA years without a NTC.

Just comes down to money. 1st game of the season comes around and Lindholm has an offersheet he can sign at say $7M or he can wait around for the Ducks to up their offer, maybe he signs. Even if he doesn't it gives him leverage in the negotiation.



Easy. Kings are going into a retool... The Trouba one is to balance out the L/R and fill a position that the Kings don't currently have someone to fill in the next 2 years. Lindholm wouldn't fix the balance, but jacking him from the Ducks or forcing the Ducks to pay more then they want makes the Ducks worse and helps the Kings.

Also both players are younger. If the Kings need to retool the D, they might as well get some younger guys. It would be nice to get another top 4D in addition, but with the expansion draft coming up and Brown's contract that isn't looking like an option right now. So improve what you can now.

I'd do Martinez + 2nd +3rd for Lindholm all day long and laugh at the Ducks personally.

The Kings are not an old team, they don't need to get younger. Our core players range from mid-20s to early 30s. The problem with the Kings is that we have holes to fill that have not been addressed because of cap space and lack of assets for a trade. We need a top 4 defenseman to play on the second pairing, not an upgrade on Martinez. We need a 3C. And, although a bit of a luxury, we need a winger to replace Lucic.

Your proposed trade would just compound the problems we have. We would still have all of the above holes to fill, and lose more draft picks which we need for either a trade to fill the holes or to develop our prospect pool. In addition, we would incur an additional $3-4 million in cap space when we sign Lindholm, which will cause us to not be able to sign Pearson or Toffoli, which creates more holes to fill.

 

[tsanuri]

Still trying to figure out what Trouba has done to warrant such returns and an accompanying egregious contract. Yes he's 22, but he has a lot of work to do before he's even a top pairing d-man.

I've not seen anywhere saying he's asking for a ton of money. Of course I could have missed it.
He's asking for a trade and to be paid more than the Jets would likely pay him because since he plays the right side he's behind two other players. And won't get the chance to grow and get the big deal because of it.

 

[Trolfoli]

Top 9 wings
1 Gaborik (injured)
2 Toffoli
3 Pearson
4 Brown
5 Purcell
6 Setoguchi (PTO)
7 King
8 Lewis
Kempe on the way eventually.

6 spots to fill, Gaborik is out for a couple months. Is there a trade coming?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Is there a trade coming?

I don't see why. They have to account for Gaborik's cap hit, unless he's out until the playoffs, which he's not. At least with this current injury anyway.