2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

[KINGS17]

Blake needs to identify players who are "saving themselves" or have other off ice tasks that rank higher than winning at hockey and move them. For instance a guy who may be really tired from raising a bunch of kids so he no longer does the stuff that made him a good power forward. Gaborik was having a miserable season and used the week off to fly to Cuba to hang out and have fun. That's not championship caliber stuff, that's a fat cat cashing in and enjoying the spoils. This team can still win they just need to find a way to dispatch a couple players who are holding the team hostage with fat money deals and lackluster on ice performance.

We talking about Brown or Kopitar?

Didn't Toffoli go to Cuba as well? Where did the rest of the players go during the week off? You think they all stayed in LA and rested?

There is no getting rid of Brown or Gaborik unless Blake is giving up major assets to dump those contracts. Brown's effort has been fine the past two seasons. Sure we would like his effort to translate into better results, but I would say coming into camp in the best shape of his career two years ago shows Brown ranks playing to the best of his ability pretty damn high on his list of priorities.

It's just a couple of players? The biggest reason the Kings missed the playoffs is the performance of Anze Kopitar, and you want to lay it at the feet of Brown and Gaborik?

 

[Reclamation Project]

Who the **** goes to Cuba? Especially someone with Gaborik's money.

 

[kings11]

We talking about Brown or Kopitar?

Didn't Toffoli go to Cuba as well? Where did the rest of the players go during the week off? You think they all stayed in LA and rested?

There is no getting rid of Brown or Gaborik unless Blake is giving up major assets to dump those contracts. Brown's effort has been fine the past two seasons. Sure we would like his effort to translate into better results, but I would say coming into camp in the best shape of his career two years ago shows Brown ranks playing to the best of his ability pretty damn high on his list of priorities.

It's just a couple of players? The biggest reason the Kings missed the playoffs is the performance of Anze Kopitar, and you want to lay it at the feet of Brown and Gaborik?

pretty sure he's talking about Kopitar and his production slumps after both his children where born... As for Brownie, I think he'll get to that 50pt mark next season and Gaborik is always hit or miss so lets hope for a hit

 

[lordjedediah]

We talking about Brown or Kopitar?

Didn't Toffoli go to Cuba as well? Where did the rest of the players go during the week off? You think they all stayed in LA and rested?

There is no getting rid of Brown or Gaborik unless Blake is giving up major assets to dump those contracts. Brown's effort has been fine the past two seasons. Sure we would like his effort to translate into better results, but I would say coming into camp in the best shape of his career two years ago shows Brown ranks playing to the best of his ability pretty damn high on his list of priorities.

It's just a couple of players? The biggest reason the Kings missed the playoffs is the performance of Anze Kopitar, and you want to lay it at the feet of Brown and Gaborik?

Met Pearson and Toffoli after the week off. Can confirm that Pearson went to Mexico with some of the other players.

 

[lexlavender]

Some interesting info posted yesterday on Rosen's blog:

http://lakingsinsider.com/2017/05/0...ne-addressed-bishop-toffolipearson-contracts/




As thankful as I am for what Lombardi did for the team in building an infrastructure that emphasized player development and cultivating an identity and winning culture, I am also thankful that he has moved on, as the information provided above seemed to indicate that he was leaning towards moving one of the two. A team starving for goals, looking to move one of its two youngest and most productive wingers... that doesn't sound like smart asset management to me.

Goes to show you the frame of mind Lombardi has been in if he was considering moving Pearson or Toffoli. How is he going to replace those goals? A team isn't going to trade a better, more productive forward for either one of them, so it would either consist of the Kings getting younger, unproven assets, or an older, proven player, like they got with Lucic and Sekera.

Hopefully this season was an albatross for Toffoli, as well as all the other unproductive players who performed well below their expectations. If that wasn't an aberration, then we really need to start worrying about whether or not this team still has a "Cup window."

9 months ago was at the start of the season, roughly. Lombardi didn't predict that we would have such a poor season then, or that Toffoli would have such a poor season.

If both Pearson and Toffoli had excellent seasons, it may have been impossible to sign both. He was just preparing for a possible outcome.

I don't know how you can blame Lombardi for trying to prepare for a possibility that he might lose ANOTHER player for nothing.

 

[The Tikkanen]

We talking about Brown or Kopitar?

Didn't Toffoli go to Cuba as well? Where did the rest of the players go during the week off? You think they all stayed in LA and rested?

There is no getting rid of Brown or Gaborik unless Blake is giving up major assets to dump those contracts. Brown's effort has been fine the past two seasons. Sure we would like his effort to translate into better results, but I would say coming into camp in the best shape of his career two years ago shows Brown ranks playing to the best of his ability pretty damn high on his list of priorities.

It's just a couple of players? The biggest reason the Kings missed the playoffs is the performance of Anze Kopitar, and you want to lay it at the feet of Brown and Gaborik?

Gaborik is injured so there is no moving him. Kopitar you have to hope it's a blip in the radar and the Sutter effect got to his stats. All athletes have off seasons, it just seems when it comes to the Kings and their history it comes for the best players at the worst possible times. Brown? We've heard the he's in the best shape of his life for what, 3 off seasons now? It's called a PR spin put on by his agent and propped up by the Kings. At 5 million he's holding the Kings hostage no matter what line he plays on. Was the falloff due to Sutter? His PP ice time dropped like a rock. From 4:10 in 2011-2012 to 1:30 last season, with those 10 more points on the PP he would be approaching 50 points which might happen with a new coach. You can't come back next season preaching a different approach with the same players so saying you can't move this guy or that guy is false, Blake was the captain when he was traded, I don't think anybody is untouchable and Vegas is going to make noise leaving teams with some serious holes.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Kopitar had one bad a year, a year which culminated in the firing of a GM and head coach.

I'm willing to write that off until it becomes a trend.

 

[bland]

Kopitar had one bad a year, a year which culminated in the firing of a GM and head coach.

I'm willing to write that off until it becomes a trend.

I am curious to see what his offensive output will be, since the system developed by Murray and honed by Sutter was designed to Kopitar's strengths. He isn't a traditional playmaker, and the responsibility given to the Kings centers over the past 8 years was specifically based on having Kopitar on the ice for a third of every game.

It remains to be seen if he will be more or less effective in a less restrictive breakout. He could just as easily struggle as he could prosper.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Now that one of the two important RFAs have been signed, let's take a look where we stand. Assuming that Greene gets placed on LTIR, and the cap remains at $73 million (I know there are rumors that it may go up, but let's stick to this for now), we have $13,317,273 in cap space to fill in our roster. I am not counting Gaborik's injury for LTIR because he will come back at some point next season, and we cannot use his cap space for a long term signing.

With the players that are signed, our roster is as follows:

______ Kopitar - Gaborik (when he returns from injury)
_______Carter-Pearson
Brown-Kempe-Lewis
Andreoff/Dowd/Shore/Clifford/Nolan

Defense:

Forbort/Doughty
Muzzin/Martinez
McNabb/

The RFAs we need to sign that could potentially be on the Kings roster are as follows: LaDue, Gravel, Brodzinski, Toffoli, Mersch. Assuming, as John Hoven did, that LaDue, Gravel, Brodzinski, and Mersch sign together on average a $1 million/yr. contract that is a total cap hit of $4 million. Signing these players also makes Clifford and Nolan expendable. If we remove their cap hits, and add the $4 million in RFA signings, we have almost $12 million in cap space to sign Toffoli and a UFA.

We can create more cap space by getting rid of Lewis or trading one of Muzzin or Martinez for a top 6 forward on an ELC. Also, if the cap space goes up to $76 million, we will have $15 million without any of these other moves.

In short, it appears that we can have sufficient cap space to make a big splash in free agency. I would ideally like to land Oshie, if he is willing to move to LA. His performance in the regular season and the playoffs have been great, and he would fit perfectly on Kopitar's line. Assuming he will agree to $6.5 million on a long term contract, I would sign him.

Other forwards that are worth mentioning are: Radulov, Vrbata, Eaves, Hanzal, Bonino, and Sharp. Of these players, I think Radulov is the only game changer type forward, and the rest are more depth guys for the third line, and borderline top 6.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Now that one of the two important RFAs have been signed, let's take a look where we stand. Assuming that Greene gets placed on LTIR, and the cap remains at $73 million (I know there are rumors that it may go up, but let's stick to this for now), we have $13,317,273 in cap space to fill in our roster. I am not counting Gaborik's injury for LTIR because he will come back at some point next season, and we cannot use his cap space for a long term signing.

With the players that are signed, our roster is as follows:

______ Kopitar - Gaborik (when he returns from injury)
_______Carter-Pearson
Brown-Kempe-Lewis
Andreoff/Dowd/Shore/Clifford/Nolan

Defense:

Forbort/Doughty
Muzzin/Martinez
McNabb/

The RFAs we need to sign that could potentially be on the Kings roster are as follows: LaDue, Gravel, Brodzinski, Toffoli, Mersch. Assuming, as John Hoven did, that LaDue, Gravel, Brodzinski, and Mersch sign together on average a $1 million/yr. contract that is a total cap hit of $4 million. Signing these players also makes Clifford and Nolan expendable. If we remove their cap hits, and add the $4 million in RFA signings, we have almost $12 million in cap space to sign Toffoli and a UFA.

We can create more cap space by getting rid of Lewis or trading one of Muzzin or Martinez for a top 6 forward on an ELC. Also, if the cap space goes up to $76 million, we will have $15 million without any of these other moves.

In short, it appears that we can have sufficient cap space to make a big splash in free agency. I would ideally like to land Oshie, if he is willing to move to LA. His performance in the regular season and the playoffs have been great, and he would fit perfectly on Kopitar's line. Assuming he will agree to $6.5 million on a long term contract, I would sign him.

Other forwards that are worth mentioning are: Radulov, Vrbata, Eaves, Hanzal, Bonino, and Sharp. Of these players, I think Radulov is the only game changer type forward, and the rest are more depth guys for the third line, and borderline top 6.

Also going to lose someone to expansion. Lewis or McNabb would add an extra $1.9-2 million in cap space. I don't get all the panic from Kings fans that seem to think they're screwed cap wise and can't afford Toffoli.

 

[lexlavender]

Also going to lose someone to expansion. Lewis or McNabb would add an extra $1.9-2 million in cap space. I don't get all the panic from Kings fans that seem to think they're screwed cap wise and can't afford Toffoli.

We were screwed cap wise until the Pearson Signing, as he was assumed to be getting 1.25 mil more than he did at least. As long as we don't sign Toffoli to a ridiculous deal, we're fine for the next two seasons.

We're still screwed cap wise in terms of Doughty's contract.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

We were screwed cap wise until the Pearson Signing, as he was assumed to be getting 1.25 mil more than he did at least. As long as we don't sign Toffoli to a ridiculous deal, we're fine for the next two seasons.

We're still screwed cap wise in terms of Doughty's contract.

Who assumed Pearson was getting $5 million a season? I never thought he would get anywhere close to $5 million.

 

[kings11]

We were screwed cap wise until the Pearson Signing, as he was assumed to be getting 1.25 mil more than he did at least. As long as we don't sign Toffoli to a ridiculous deal, we're fine for the next two seasons.

We're still screwed cap wise in terms of Doughty's contract.

Gaborik will likely be a nice piece to trade in two years for a team wanting to reach the cap floor, since he'd only have 2 years left ...

Muzzin and Martinez would likely be gone and replaced by at least Forbort, LaDue and Gravel at the likely combined price $4-$5 million.....

and cheap options like Kempe, Amadio, Brodzinski, Maybe Clague and this years lily pick...

at that year/season the Kings will have $24 million in capspace...according to cap friendly

 

[kings11]

Who assumed Pearson was getting $5 million a season? I never thought he would get anywhere close to $5 million.

almost everyone... I had him pegged for less than $4 million and was called delusional but i guess i was actually right.... had him at $3.5-$3.75 mill per.....

Im willing to bet Toffoli lands at $4.5-$4.75 mill per...

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I am curious to see what his offensive output will be, since the system developed by Murray and honed by Sutter was designed to Kopitar's strengths. He isn't a traditional playmaker, and the responsibility given to the Kings centers over the past 8 years was specifically based on having Kopitar on the ice for a third of every game.

It remains to be seen if he will be more or less effective in a less restrictive breakout. He could just as easily struggle as he could prosper.

Given that he's produced at a 72 point pace for over a decade on good teams and bad, and at just about the same pace in every international competition (WC, Olympics), I have a hard time buying it would be a systematic struggle for an elite two-way player who is a coaches son and, last season nonwithstanding, one of the most consistent players in the world with both health and output.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Given that he's produced at a 72 point pace for over a decade on good teams and bad, and at just about the same pace in every international competition (WC, Olympics), I have a hard time buying it would be a systematic struggle for an elite two-way player who is a coaches son and, last season nonwithstanding, one of the most consistent players in the world with both health and output.

but bro haven't you seen THE GRAPH?

 

[deeshamrock]

I am curious to see what his offensive output will be, since the system developed by Murray and honed by Sutter was designed to Kopitar's strengths. He isn't a traditional playmaker, and the responsibility given to the Kings centers over the past 8 years was specifically based on having Kopitar on the ice for a third of every game.

It remains to be seen if he will be more or less effective in a less restrictive breakout. He could just as easily struggle as he could prosper.

I can't imagine any scenario when Kopitar would be less effective than in the stifling defense first systems he's been mired in. I get an image of chains being cut off his skates and a "Go forth and produce, you're free' edict. Given the right wingers, he'll do just fine. There is always a learning curve with any new system, most teams take a couple months to adjust. But this team knows Stevens so that will be a big benefit.

 

[bland]

Given that he's produced at a 72 point pace for over a decade on good teams and bad, and at just about the same pace in every international competition (WC, Olympics), I have a hard time buying it would be a systematic struggle for an elite two-way player who is a coaches son and, last season nonwithstanding, one of the most consistent players in the world with both health and output.

The "system" has never really hurt Kopitar's offensive production. His level of performance within that system was most definitely good enough to post terrific numbers. It's his annual dip in desire to get the puck into scoring areas that kept him from posting better offensive numbers.

Perhaps a less rigid breakout structure will allow him to better manage his energy and also lead to initial touches further up the ice. Those would both be positives.

But with Kopitar, it's always a question of his inner desire, not really an X's and O's situation. He could be one of the very best players in the world if he would have the hunger to reach out and grab at it. Far too often he settles for being just one of the team when his skill, size and paycheck mean he should accomplish more.

That's the reason for concern here, how badly does he want to be better, and will he push forward more under a new coach?

 

[tomd]

Now that one of the two important RFAs have been signed, let's take a look where we stand. Assuming that Greene gets placed on LTIR, and the cap remains at $73 million (I know there are rumors that it may go up, but let's stick to this for now), we have $13,317,273 in cap space to fill in our roster. I am not counting Gaborik's injury for LTIR because he will come back at some point next season, and we cannot use his cap space for a long term signing.

With the players that are signed, our roster is as follows:

______ Kopitar - Gaborik (when he returns from injury)
_______Carter-Pearson
Brown-Kempe-Lewis
Andreoff/Dowd/Shore/Clifford/Nolan

Defense:

Forbort/Doughty
Muzzin/Martinez
McNabb/

The RFAs we need to sign that could potentially be on the Kings roster are as follows: LaDue, Gravel, Brodzinski, Toffoli, Mersch. Assuming, as John Hoven did, that LaDue, Gravel, Brodzinski, and Mersch sign together on average a $1 million/yr. contract that is a total cap hit of $4 million. Signing these players also makes Clifford and Nolan expendable. If we remove their cap hits, and add the $4 million in RFA signings, we have almost $12 million in cap space to sign Toffoli and a UFA.

We can create more cap space by getting rid of Lewis or trading one of Muzzin or Martinez for a top 6 forward on an ELC. Also, if the cap space goes up to $76 million, we will have $15 million without any of these other moves.

In short, it appears that we can have sufficient cap space to make a big splash in free agency. I would ideally like to land Oshie, if he is willing to move to LA. His performance in the regular season and the playoffs have been great, and he would fit perfectly on Kopitar's line. Assuming he will agree to $6.5 million on a long term contract, I would sign him.

Other forwards that are worth mentioning are: Radulov, Vrbata, Eaves, Hanzal, Bonino, and Sharp. Of these players, I think Radulov is the only game changer type forward, and the rest are more depth guys for the third line, and borderline top 6.

did you include goaltending and the Richards recaptures?

 

[johnjm22]

Brown? We've heard the he's in the best shape of his life for what, 3 off seasons now? It's called a PR spin put on by his agent and propped up by the Kings. At 5 million he's holding the Kings hostage no matter what line he plays on. Was the falloff due to Sutter?

He is in great shape and works hard on and off the ice. It's no lie.

But being in shape doesn't make you a good hockey player.

 

[Stimpythecat]

I put pearson down for $3.5. Glad to be under $4 for the contract.

 

[dman3474]

I was thinking about 10 mil between the two. lets see where toffoli lands but hopefully it will be around 9 mil (combined)

 

[Stimpythecat]

I figured the same. $10 million between the two - hoped for $9.5 million.

Now that Pearson is back at $3.75, I'm hoping for under $6 million for Toffoli. $5.5-$5.75?

 

[Reclamation Project]

10 million is too much. 8, 8.5 max.

 

[Stimpythecat]

In order to get a combined $8, Toffoli would have to get $4.25. I don't see him signing for that. $5.25-$5.5+ million is my guess.