2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

[Reclamation Project]

Too much. 4.25 per for 6 years.

 

[AlphaBravo]

did you include goaltending and the Richards recaptures?

Yup. Calculation based on capfriendly website.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Too much. 4.25 per for 6 years.

I'd be loving that, but you know his agent is pointing out how he was a 30 goal scorer on the Kings. That's gonna come at a premium especially if we take a UFA year.

 

[KINGS17]

I'd be loving that, but you know his agent is pointing out how he was a 30 goal scorer on the Kings. That's gonna come at a premium especially if we take a UFA year.

ONE TIME. Toffoli had a great season once. To me it doesn't equate to a 6-year, $30M contract. I would like to see Blake keep Toffoli's deal limited to 4 years. That takes him up to 30 years of age.

 

[deeshamrock]

ONE TIME. Toffoli had a great season once. To me it doesn't equate to a 6-year, $30M contract. I would like to see Blake keep Toffoli's deal limited to 4 years. That takes him up to 30 years of age.

You would TT and his agent won't. He'd be under selling himself. He is a 30 goal scorer who had an injured laden off year. His career numbers support a much higher figure. Career ave is 28 goals, 59 pts. That's not a 4M player. I can see the agent agreeing to 1 yr at 4.5 but more than that, no. He'd be foolish. He has the same agent as Kopi and Toewes, he's not going to lower his numbers.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

ONE TIME. Toffoli had a great season once. To me it doesn't equate to a 6-year, $30M contract. I would like to see Blake keep Toffoli's deal limited to 4 years. That takes him up to 30 years of age.

If you're toffoli's agent, how much does that 30 goals cost you, never mind his +/- being the best or 2nd best on the team repeatedly, and if you want to buy a UFA year? especially after working with the team to get his last contract done quickly for Looch?

He's got a lot of chips is all I'm saying, not that I'd do that.

 

[KINGS17]

If you're toffoli's agent, how much does that 30 goals cost you, never mind his +/- being the best or 2nd best on the team repeatedly, and if you want to buy a UFA year? especially after working with the team to get his last contract done quickly for Looch?

He's got a lot of chips is all I'm saying, not that I'd do that.

...and if I'm Rob Blake those are all nice arguments. Tell me how giving you 6 years and $30M helps the Kings win hockey games.

 

[KINGS17]

You would TT and his agent won't. He'd be under selling himself. He is a 30 goal scorer who had an injured laden off year. His career numbers support a much higher figure. Career ave is 28 goals, 59 pts. That's not a 4M player. I can see the agent agreeing to 1 yr at 4.5 but more than that, no. He'd be foolish. He has the same agent as Kopi and Toewes, he's not going to lower his numbers.

Carter is a proven goal scorer. Carter has seasons with the Kings of 26, 27, 28, 24, and 32 goals.

Toffoli has seasons of 12, 23, 31, and 16 goals. I like him a lot, but I think his tires are being pumped a little here. Any comparisons to Carter are not valid. I really don't see how a player who has scored 30 goals ONCE in a season is suddenly a bonafide 30-goal scorer. I would agree if you said Toffoli is a proven 20-25 goal player. Carter is a proven 25-30 goal player.

F Kopi and Toews agent, his client can be traded if he won't accept a reasonable deal. So, in my mind what is a 25-year old, 20-25 goal scorer worth to the KINGS, not some dip**** GM who will overpay? Based on what Pearson just got, about $4.5M a season for four years.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If the Pearson contract is any indication, then I'm inclined to believe that Blake won't be caving in to any silly contract demands that Toffoli may have. He wants to stay here as well, and his performance this past season doesn't really give him much leverage.

A shorter term deal that keeps Toffoli as a RFA at the end of it may be the best move for both sides at the moment, just to prove himself and hopefully buy time to get rid of some contracts between now and whenever his next contract will be due.

 

[deeshamrock]

If the Pearson contract is any indication, then I'm inclined to believe that Blake won't be caving in to any silly contract demands that Toffoli may have. He wants to stay here as well, and his performance this past season doesn't really give him much leverage.

A shorter term deal that keeps Toffoli as a RFA at the end of it may be the best move for both sides at the moment, just to prove himself and hopefully buy time to get rid of some contracts between now and whenever his next contract will be due.

the contract won't be based on 1 yr (and he was injured) it will be based on his comprehensive production.
And why would TT contract demands be 'silly'? He/agent should be basing it on his production to date and projected forward. Not sure what he has to prove, he's done pretty much that in his past. As his career numbers dictate, he's a 28 g, 59 pt player, average.
I agree on the 1 yr, because I don't think they will agree on more than that. His agent isn't the flexible type.

Pearson's contract was good for both sides, Pearson got a 1 yr back, which is huge for him. Fair deal.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Carter is a proven goal scorer. Carter has seasons with the Kings of 26, 27, 28, 24, and 32 goals.

Toffoli has seasons of 12, 23, 31, and 16 goals. I like him a lot, but I think his tires are being pumped a little here. Any comparisons to Carter are not valid. I really don't see how a player who has scored 30 goals ONCE in a season is suddenly a bonafide 30-goal scorer. I would agree if you said Toffoli is a proven 20-25 goal player. Carter is a proven 25-30 goal player.

F Kopi and Toews agent, his client can be traded if he won't accept a reasonable deal. So, in my mind what is a 25-year old, 20-25 goal scorer worth to the KINGS, not some dip**** GM who will overpay? Based on what Pearson just got, about $4.5M a season for four years.

62 games, 76 games, 82 games. If you take out his injury season, he's scoring at a 25 goal, 51 point pace. Also, +81 over that span. Never mind his off ice leadership--guy is all over the community, took a team-friendly deal in a hurry to help out last time, and played thru injury. A very close comparable is Jaden Schwartz, who just took a 5 year, 5,350,000/year deal. So, with all that in mind, at what point do you call Rob Blake a *******? What's your vision here?

ALso if you're basing that on PEarson's one full season, I'm going to call BS that you wouldn't do that for TT as well.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If the Pearson contract is any indication, then I'm inclined to believe that Blake won't be caving in to any silly contract demands that Toffoli may have. He wants to stay here as well, and his performance this past season doesn't really give him much leverage.

A shorter term deal that keeps Toffoli as a RFA at the end of it may be the best move for both sides at the moment, just to prove himself and hopefully buy time to get rid of some contracts between now and whenever his next contract will be due.

I Can get on board with that. If you're going to take some UFA years, it will cost you. Otherwise, finish his RFA years with yet another bridge deal, that could be a win-win. Doesn't seem like the type of dude to sign an offer sheet anyway.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

62 games, 76 games, 82 games. If you take out his injury season, he's scoring at a 25 goal, 51 point pace. Also, +81 over that span. Never mind his off ice leadership--guy is all over the community, took a team-friendly deal in a hurry to help out last time, and played thru injury. A very close comparable is Jaden Schwartz, who just took a 5 year, 5,350,000/year deal. So, with all that in mind, at what point do you call Rob Blake a *******? What's your vision here?

Doing that while playing on the 25th or worse offensive team in the NHL. I'd be shocked if he signed for less than $5 million a season.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Doing that while playing on the 25th or worse offensive team in the NHL. I'd be shocked if he signed for less than $5 million a season.

If it weren't Tyler Toffoli, saying we got a 25-30 goal top-six sniper for 5x5 would probably be considered a good deal around here.

I'd love him to come in around 4.25-4.5 but I'm not sure that'll work.

 

[dman3474]

Somewhere between Kreider 4yr/4.625 and Schenn 4/5.125 (both signed last year) is about market value.

Maybe let him go to arbitration and hope for a cheap one year deal out of them

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Somewhere between Kreider 4yr/4.625 and Schenn 4/5.125 (both signed last year) is about market value.

Maybe let him go to arbitration and hope for a cheap one year deal out of them

Why would you want a cheap one year deal? He's coming off a 16 goal (in 65 game) season. What happens if he scores 30 next season? $5 million would be considered a steal in that case. He scores another 30 goal season and that price jumps to $6 million.

 

[dman3474]

Why would you want a cheap one year deal? He's coming off a 16 goal (in 65 game) season. What happens if he scores 30 next season? $5 million would be considered a steal in that case. He scores another 30 goal season and that price jumps to $6 million.

What if he has another 16 goal 65 game season? or worse what if he never pots 16 goals again!

I am just playing devils advocate, I dont think he will drop off like that but it could happen. I think he will probably settle into a 20-30 goal guy that we can hopefully sign to a multi year deal in the 4.5-5 mil range.

 

[KINGS17]

If it weren't Tyler Toffoli, saying we got a 25-30 goal top-six sniper for 5x5 would probably be considered a good deal around here.

I'd love him to come in around 4.25-4.5 but I'm not sure that'll work.

Again, there is grade inflation here by associating Tyler Toffoli's name with a 25-30 goal player. He just isn't yet.

Maybe he can get an offer sheet and force Blake's hand, but he isn't worth $25M over 5 years.

 

[AlphaBravo]

It's always a risk signing a player to a mid-to-long term contract in today's cap era. But theoretically speaking, any player's performance can fall off the map after a few successful seasons.

I think Toffoli has proven he is a pure sniper and can score even under an offensively deprived coaching system. He had an off year last year, but he showed with his 16 goals in 65 games that he is, at a minimum, a 20+ goal scorer in a full season. Along with that, he also puts up great defensive numbers.

Based on this, I don't think he is worth more than $6 million. Nor should he settle for anything below $4.5 million. Somewhere in between is a fair number on a long term deal (4 to 6 years). So if the ultimate deal is $5 to $5.5 million dollars, I would say Blake did his job and did not get pressured to a bad contract. If Blake gets Toffoli at $4.5, then he won that negotiation without a doubt.

 

[deeshamrock]

Again, there is grade inflation here by associating Tyler Toffoli's name with a 25-30 goal player. He just isn't yet.

Maybe he can get an offer sheet and force Blake's hand, but he isn't worth $25M over 5 years.

except when he has been. His only full season he potted 31, and has 84 goals in 293 games. He's a young sniper who will only improve.
He's not a 3rd liner, he's gonna get paid .

Disagree on what your idea of 'worth' is. And if the Kings want to see more, than they might end up paying more. He could get 1 yr at 4.5 M and negotiate next year. But if he's healthy for all 82 in a new system , more conducive to scoring and he pots 35, then his agent will up the ante.
For a player of his skill and youth, 5 x 5 would be a bargain.

 

[kingsboy11]

It's always a risk signing a player to a mid-to-long term contract in today's cap era. But theoretically speaking, any player's performance can fall off the map after a few successful seasons.

I think Toffoli has proven he is a pure sniper and can score even under an offensively deprived coaching system. He had an off year last year, but he showed with his 16 goals in 65 games that he is, at a minimum, a 20+ goal scorer in a full season. Along with that, he also puts up great defensive numbers.

Based on this, I don't think he is worth more than $6 million. Nor should he settle for anything below $4.5 million. Somewhere in between is a fair number on a long term deal (4 to 6 years). So if the ultimate deal is $5 to $5.5 million dollars, I would say Blake did his job and did not get pressured to a bad contract. If Blake gets Toffoli at $4.5, then he won that negotiation without a doubt.

This what I feel. I don't think Toffoli has too much leverage to bend over Blake and I don't think Blake will play hardball with him. There are a lot of comparable contracts out there that would be a fair deal for both sides I think.

 

[KINGS17]

except when he has been. His only full season he potted 31, and has 84 goals in 293 games. He's a young sniper who will only improve.
He's not a 3rd liner, he's gonna get paid .

Disagree on what your idea of 'worth' is. And if the Kings want to see more, than they might end up paying more. He could get 1 yr at 4.5 M and negotiate next year. But if he's healthy for all 82 in a new system , more conducive to scoring and he pots 35, then his agent will up the ante.
For a player of his skill and youth, 5 x 5 would be a bargain.

He scored 30 goals once. He isn't THAT young. He is 25 years old. There is no guarantee he will improve. At this point he may just be what he is, and if he can sustain a 20-25 goal pace for the next 3 or 4 years that would be fine, but it isn't $30M fine.

You're right he isn't a 3rd liner, he is a 2nd line player who has the ability to play on the 1st line from time to time.

I think some of you are going to be shocked at how the numbers for many of these guys aren't going to increase by 30% just because the Kings have a "new system".

 

[rajuabju]

7 years, $35M.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

He scored 30 goals once. He isn't THAT young. He is 25 years old. There is no guarantee he will improve. At this point he may just be what he is, and if he can sustain a 20-25 goal pace for the next 3 or 4 years that would be fine, but it isn't $30M fine.

You're right he isn't a 3rd liner, he is a 2nd line player who has the ability to play on the 1st line from time to time.

I think some of you are going to be shocked at how the numbers for many of these guys aren't going to increase by 30% just because the Kings have a "new system".

$5 million for a 2nd line player that scores 25ish goals a season and is strong defensively is very good value. I'd like to see him PK more this upcoming season too. Think he was just taken off it because of his injury.

 

[KINGS17]

$5 million for a 2nd line player that scores 25ish goals a season and is strong defensively is very good value. I'd like to see him PK more this upcoming season too. Think he was just taken off it because of his injury.

Four years at $5M then. I think that's extremely fair.