2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

[AlphaBravo]

I would prefer to stay away from making a "big splash" a.k.a overpaying someone in free agency. Sit back and let other GM's go give retirement contracts out to guys that will under perform.

Rather go the trade route to find a younger controllable player. Dangle Muzzin and/or Martinez and see what the going rate is.

That's if a deal can be made for an impact top 6 forward involving Muzzin or Martinez. Also, we would have to take into account the drop-off we will have on defense with one of these players traded.

If a deal can be made to sign Oshie for $6 million on a long term deal, I would do that deal because he is a highly skilled player and can play well late in his late 30s, like Carter. I would sign Radulov for $5 million, but only for a 2-3 year deal.

 

[KINGS17]

That's if a deal can be made for an impact top 6 forward involving Muzzin or Martinez. Also, we would have to take into account the drop-off we will have on defense with one of these players traded.

If a deal can be made to sign Oshie for $6 million on a long term deal, I would do that deal because he is a highly skilled player and can play well late in his late 30s, like Carter. I would sign Radulov for $5 million, but only for a 2-3 year deal.

How do we know this?

 

[AlphaBravo]

How do we know this?

How do we know that Toffoli wont turn into Brown next year? You can never know for sure, but you can take a calculated risk based on the type of player you are signing. I think power forwards like Brown or Lucic are more prone to sudden drop off in play. Players that have high skill levels, like Oshie or Carter, are less likely.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Oshie is grossly overrated.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

How do we know that Toffoli wont turn into Brown next year? You can never know for sure, but you can take a calculated risk based on the type of player you are signing. I think power forwards like Brown or Lucic are more prone to sudden drop off in play. Players that have high skill levels, like Oshie or Carter, are less likely.

I think he meant Oshie, not Tyler Toffoli. And I agree with him on this one, Oshie plays maybe not as physical a game as Brown, but he's not a pure skill guy, he likes to crash and I'd love him on this team, but a long term deal for Oshie after seeing what we've seen isn't what I'd want.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I think he meant Oshie, not Tyler Toffoli. And I agree with him on this one, Oshie plays maybe not as physical a game as Brown, but he's not a pure skill guy, he likes to crash and I'd love him on this team, but a long term deal for Oshie after seeing what we've seen isn't what I'd want.

Probably not going to get an Oshie level forward on a short term deal, and won't get Drouin for just Muzzin(or even plus a 1st in a predicted weak draft), which has been thrown around before. Other than waiting to see what the Kings own prospects can do, it's going to cost you one way or the other if the goal is to attempt to improve the team by doing something for next season. A scoring forward on a short term deal would be great. Getting a young and cost controlled player for an older player would be outstanding. If it works out that way, it can only mean good things.

 

[kilowatt]

How do we know that Toffoli wont turn into Brown next year? You can never know for sure, but you can take a calculated risk based on the type of player you are signing. I think power forwards like Brown or Lucic are more prone to sudden drop off in play. Players that have high skill levels, like Oshie or Carter, are less likely.

How do we explain Gaborik, then?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

How do we explain Gaborik, then?

lots and lots of injuries on a guy who was an enigma anyway. But let's not forget he had 27 goals a year ago.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Probably not going to get an Oshie level forward on a short term deal, and won't get Drouin for just Muzzin(or even plus a 1st in a predicted weak draft), which has been thrown around before. Other than waiting to see what the Kings own prospects can do, it's going to cost you one way or the other if the goal is to attempt to improve the team by doing something for next season. A scoring forward on a short term deal would be great. Getting a young and cost controlled player for an older player would be outstanding. If it works out that way, it can only mean good things.

Maybe Blake's history with Colorado and Sakic will soften the blow to get Landeskog?

 

[AlphaBravo]

How do we explain Gaborik, then?

Easy, injuries. When Gaborik is 100% he is still dangerous offensively.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Alright you guys convinced me. I will buy into the HF logic. The new plan going forward is to not sign anyone to long term deals. We can win the cup by only signing one year rentals like Purcell, Versteeg, and Setoguichi. No playoffs, no cup, but you can't put a price on the piece of mind Kings fans get by knowing we are not stuck to a player that may suck down the road.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Probably not going to get an Oshie level forward on a short term deal, and won't get Drouin for just Muzzin(or even plus a 1st in a predicted weak draft), which has been thrown around before. Other than waiting to see what the Kings own prospects can do, it's going to cost you one way or the other if the goal is to attempt to improve the team by doing something for next season. A scoring forward on a short term deal would be great. Getting a young and cost controlled player for an older player would be outstanding. If it works out that way, it can only mean good things.

No point in getting Drouin. If we sign him to a long term deal he may suck down the road. We shouldn't take that risk.

 

[KINGS17]

No point in getting Drouin. If we sign him to a long term deal he may suck down the road. We shouldn't take that risk.

Drouin would be great on a long term deal. He is only 22 years old and just had his first 50-point season.

Unfortunately, the Kings would be easily outbid by multiple teams seeking to make a trade for Drouin. The Ducks might be at the top of the list for teams which would make a good trading partner with the Lightning in a deal for Drouin.

Of course, it would make more sense to go after Oshie since he will only be 31 years old a couple of months into next season. I have to admit Oshie has been very consistent over the last 5 or 6 years, and I am sure he will continue to rack up the 50-point seasons until he is well into his thirties.

I can tell, because he is a lot like the soon to be 33 year old Jeff Carter, and we know he is going to be a scoring machine for another 5 years. Never mind that Oshie isn't really in Carter's class at all. That's just a minor detail.

 

[damacles1156]

Is it really that hard to understand; that signing players heading into 30+ year old range to EIGHT, EIGHT year deals is a bad idea.

No one said, it's a bad idea to sign players long term, heading into prime production ages.

 

[King'sPawn]

Is it really that hard to understand; that signing players heading into 30+ year old range to EIGHT, EIGHT year deals is a bad idea.

No one said, it's a bad idea to sign players long term, heading into prime production ages.

So those Penguins are pretty foolish with Crosby and Malkin?

 

[damacles1156]

So those Penguins are pretty foolish with Crosby and Malkin?

They signed really long deals on responsible cap hits, A While ago.

Both were right smack in the prime production years. Both are supreme ELITE production players, Those two, are guys that you do take a gamble on. Malkin was 27 years of age, Crosby 25 years old, both perfect ages to sign long term. Pitt did excellent with getting Malkin/Crosby as cheap as they did.

Try again.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They signed really long deals on responsible cap hits, A While ago.

Both were right smack in the prime production years. Both are supreme ELITE production players, Those two, are guys that you do take a gamble on. Malkin was 27 years of age, Crosby 25 years old, both perfect ages to sign long term. Pitt did excellent with getting Malkin/Crosby as cheap as they did.

Try again.

So the only exception is to sign generational players to long term deals that are also lower than market value because they receive tons of outside money for sponsorships.

 

[damacles1156]

I'll clarify more.

Don't sign 29/30+ year old guys to Eight Year deals, it will most likely end poorly. Unless the guy is as talented as Doughty/Crosby

Nothing wrong with signing 19/18/20/21/22/23/24/25/26/27/28 year old players to long term deals. It's probably going to work out in your favor.

Did anyone think it was a good idea to sign Gabo to Seven years at his age ?


Is it a good idea to sign Kopitar at age 27/28 long term ? Yes it is, (i just think he got too much).

 

[KingsFan7824]

Maybe Blake's history with Colorado and Sakic will soften the blow to get Landeskog?

If Sakic is really that bad of a GM, sure.

They signed really long deals on responsible cap hits, A While ago.

Both were right smack in the prime production years. Both are supreme ELITE production players, Those two are guys that you do take a gamble on. Malkin was 27 years of age, Crosby 25 years old, both perfect ages to sign long term.

Try again.

I don't think those are the prime production years. Prime overall player years are probably the 25-30 or whatever, but we can see the points for Crosby and Malkin are already not what they used to be when they were 20-25. The nice thing for Pittsburgh is that Malkin didn't take that much more of a cap hit than he had on his previous deal(but it was big on his previous deal), and Crosby has had the same $8.7m cap hit since the 08-09 season. Good for them that he was born on 8/7/87, and goes by the #87.

If Kopitar had had a $8.4m cap hit(6.8+10/2) since 09-10, would that have been better, or worse? A little worse short term, a little better long term. $6.8 was great, $10m is a lot.

 

[damacles1156]

If Sakic is really that bad of a GM, sure.



I don't think those are the prime production years. Prime overall player years are probably the 25-30 or whatever, but we can see the points for Crosby and Malkin are already not what they used to be when they were 20-25. The nice thing for Pittsburgh is that Malkin didn't take that much more of a cap hit than he had on his previous deal(but it was big on his previous deal), and Crosby has had the same $8.7m cap hit since the 08-09 season. Good for them that he was born on 8/7/87, and goes by the #87.

If Kopitar had had a $8.4m cap hit(6.8+10/2) since 09-10, would that have been better, or worse? A little worse short term, a little better long term. $6.8 was great, $10m is a lot.

The Gabo contract length, simply save on the cap hit, perfect example of what not to do.

Imagine if Gabo signed a three year deal or four. If he wouldn't have accepted that, walk away.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Did anyone think it was a good idea to sign Gabo to Seven years at his age ?

Lombardi was going for another Cup as soon as possible. Gaborik had a really good 14-15 season. Is it good or bad? If things don't go completely into the toilet on and off the ice in 14-15, and the Kings go deep, and maybe win again? It's great, who cares about 4 years from then. With everything that's happened? Yeah, it's turned out terrible.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The Gabo contract length, simply save on the cap hit, perfect example of what not to do.

Imagine if Gabo signed a three year deal or four. If he wouldn't have accepted that, walk away.

I still think it's easy to say that. He just had 14 goals for the team that won the Cup. DL got Gaborik in part because Brown had stopped scoring. If Brown's offense hadn't disappeared, I'm not sure Gaborik is even traded for in the first place. If the Kings go out in 4 or 5 quiet games to the Sharks that year, I doubt Gaborik is re-signed. I don't think Greene would've been re-signed, and Richards would've been bought out. I think Lombardi would've re-set the roster the way he did after the quiet 1st round series against the Sharks in 2016.

The insane Cup run in 2014 changed things. If the run didn't happen, it would've changed things. Is that the way a GM should do things? I don't know, but outside of the Florida Marlins, there aren't too many GM's in any sport that break up a team that just won a championship. I just think it's much, much easier to say all these things should be done, than to actually do them. Lombardi is now out of a job though, and the worst GM over the last 3 years, while the Marlins have been considered to be a mercenary organization run by a greedy liar over the years that hasn't cared about its fans.

If you win, everything is great. Loyalty or heartlessness are wonderful. If you keep winning, everything is even better. Keep being loyal or heartless, whatever got you to where you are! You're a winner either way. As soon as you don't win, get out. All of your methods are dumb, and are your biggest weakness. There's no winning but winning.

 

[damacles1156]

I still think it's easy to say that. He just had 14 goals for the team that won the Cup. DL got Gaborik in part because Brown had stopped scoring. If Brown's offense hadn't disappeared, I'm not sure Gaborik is even traded for in the first place. If the Kings go out in 4 or 5 quiet games to the Sharks that year, I doubt Gaborik is re-signed. I don't think Greene would've been re-signed, and Richards would've been bought out. I think Lombardi would've re-set the roster the way he did after the quiet 1st round series against the Sharks in 2016.

The insane Cup run in 2014 changed things. If the run didn't happen, it would've changed things. Is that the way a GM should do things? I don't know, but outside of the Florida Marlins, there aren't too many GM's in any sport that break up a team that just won a championship. I just think it's much, much easier to say all these things should be done, than to actually do them. Lombardi is now out of a job though, and the worst GM over the last 3 years, while the Marlins have been considered to be a mercenary organization run by a greedy liar over the years that hasn't cared about its fans.

If you win, everything is great. Loyalty or heartlessness are wonderful. If you keep winning, everything is even better. Keep being loyal or heartless, whatever got you to where you are! You're a winner either way. As soon as you don't win, get out. All of your methods are dumb, and are your biggest weakness. There's no winning but winning.

Kopitar I can understand signing him to the deal he got. It's what you do.

Gabo though, the red flags were there, his age, his injury history, it was all there. These are guaranteed contracts.

Same as the Richards debacle. In the end, it contributed to Lombardi getting fired, cause he couldn't make better moves or different one's.

The roster had too many toxic contracts(still does)

 

[Stimpythecat]

The question is, if Tavares gets to UFA, would you give Tavares a long term deal and for how much? Or even if a team could get him in a cheap Shattenkirk type trade.

I am not the only one that interpreted that Friedman quote as the kings possibly being especially interested in what happens.

Other hockey writers have as well.

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/friedman-scans-dynamics-play-islanders-tavares-extension/

 

[Stimpythecat]

Blake can sign TT for $5/yr. and also have cap space to fill the roster and sign another top six forward for $5-6 million/yr. John Hoven and I have posted on several occasions what our cap space looks like next year, and we have enough to make a big splash in free agency, assuming a free agent wants to sign here.

If you think we have the cap space for a $5-$6 million winger, then if the kings get rid of Gaborik's contract even if by buyout when he's healthy then we absolutely are in the money for a tavares extension territory. And that is without trading Martinez/Muzzin.