2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

[kings11]

Now look at this from the perspective of other teams in the Pacific Division and Western Conference and do an honest appraisal of whether or not the Kings are still contenders.

You're assuming a big bounce back year from Kopitar, and even at his "Selke best" the team one a single playoff game.

Time to prepare for the future.

I think what you meant to say is we're both assuming two very likely scenarios....

with that said, I expect Kopitar, Carter, Toffli, Pearson, Doughty and Quick to either maintain their production or bounce back from their perspective down years....

its the other aspects of the team that will determine the direction our team will head in...
Brodzinski, Kempe, Muzzin, Martinez, Dowd, Gravel, Forbort, LaDue, Brown, Gaborik, heck even AMadio and Mersch....

Say what you will K17 but of the remaining playoff teams we match up well with all of them...

 

[kings11]

2 years at 1.4/1.5 million per seems fair for forbort, or 1 year at 1.2 million. 3 years, he'd get 1.8 - 2 million as my guess. Other teams would pay more, he has the talent to be another Willie Mitchell.

if the FO offers DF $2 mill per I would hope it be for 3-4 years ...
and when we re-sign both Gravel and Ladue I'm hoping its a slight overpayment for a few extra years...

would love to get all 3 Dman signed to 4 year deals... instead of the usual 1-3 year deals

 

[HookKing]

if the FO offers DF $2 mill per I would hope it be for 3-4 years ...
and when we re-sign both Gravel and Ladue I'm hoping its a slight overpayment for a few extra years...

would love to get all 3 Dman signed to 4 year deals... instead of the usual 1-3 year deals

DF would be a fool to sign anything more than a 1 year deal at those prices.

 

[kings11]

DF would be a fool to sign anything more than a 1 year deal at those prices.

That's what I'm hoping for ... That's what we should all be hoping for

 

[HookKing]

That's what I'm hoping for ... That's what we should all be hoping for

So that he bolts the following year? Why would I hope for that?

 

[kings11]

So that he bolts the following year? Why would I hope for that?

lol... guy i was referring to Borts hopefully signing a 3-4 year deal with a low cap hit not him bolting..

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

I wasn't sure if I should post this on this thread or the Draft thread but since we need youth, while also capitalizing on our expiring assets would this trade even be feasible....

LA KINGS

John Tavares
Travis Hamonic

NY Islanders

Jeff Carter
Jake Muzzin
Kyke Clifford
11th over all pick....

I think its a wash as far as the talent swapped.. NYI get a slight downgrade at the 1C but a huge upgrade and likely a legit top 2D in Muzzin, a throw in piece in KC and the pick which to a team that will likely need to rebuild anyways is valuable.... This team has reached its peak IMHO

The KINGS get a in his prime star in JT who can help reopen the cup window, while Hamonic is the type of defensive Dman we've missed for awhile...

Kempe - Kopitar - Toffoli
Pearson - Tavares - Brodzinski
Brown - Dowd - Gaborik
Mersch - Lewis - Nolan

Potentially, we could see Amadio come up if his play continues on an upward trajectory...

Forbort - Doughty
Hamonic - LaDue
Gravel - Martinez
McD... we need someone to actually protect our guys...


Quick
Campbell

That's a horrific trade for the Islanders.

 

[deeshamrock]

I wasn't sure if I should post this on this thread or the Draft thread but since we need youth, while also capitalizing on our expiring assets would this trade even be feasible....

LA KINGS

John Tavares
Travis Hamonic

NY Islanders

Jeff Carter
Jake Muzzin
Kyke Clifford
11th over all pick....

I think its a wash as far as the talent swapped.. NYI get a slight downgrade at the 1C but a huge upgrade and likely a legit top 2D in Muzzin, a throw in piece in KC and the pick which to a team that will likely need to rebuild anyways is valuable.... This team has reached its peak IMHO

The KINGS get a in his prime star in JT who can help reopen the cup window, while Hamonic is the type of defensive Dman we've missed for awhile...

Kempe - Kopitar - Toffoli
Pearson - Tavares - Brodzinski
Brown - Dowd - Gaborik
Mersch - Lewis - Nolan

Potentially, we could see Amadio come up if his play continues on an upward trajectory...

Forbort - Doughty
Hamonic - LaDue
Gravel - Martinez
McD... we need someone to actually protect our guys...


Quick
Campbell

A wash??? Tavares is a lot better than Carter and a lot younger , Harmonic is a legit top 2 D and without Doughty flanking him, not sure Muzzin is, he hasn't shown that in LA. if Harmonic is going in a trade it would be to get a 1st line winger for Tavares. Clifford doesn't add anything to that.

 

[Omni Owl]

Tavares for Kopitar.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Tavares for Kopitar.

Yes, please.

 

[AmadiosAmigos]

In trading with the Islanders, I wouldnt mind seeing a deal to get Brock Nelson. Big body, apparently soft though, but has hands AND can score. Signed at $2.5 then an RFA, only 25. Helps now and in a rebuild. Has scored 20+ in each of the last 3 years. NYI is likely to have to expose him, so a deal is possible.

Im not sure we have what they'd need, but possibly if AMart or Muzzin get traded, we could use some of those assets to flip for Nelson.

Top 6 possibly would look something like:

Nelson - Kopi - Brodz/Brown
Pearson - Carts - TT

 

[YP44]

In trading with the Islanders, I wouldnt mind seeing a deal to get Brock Nelson. Big body, apparently soft though, but has hands AND can score. Signed at $2.5 then an RFA, only 25. Helps now and in a rebuild. Has scored 20+ in each of the last 3 years. NYI is likely to have to expose him, so a deal is possible.

Im not sure we have what they'd need, but possibly if AMart or Muzzin get traded, we could use some of those assets to flip for Nelson.

Top 6 possibly would look something like:

Nelson - Kopi - Brodz/Brown
Pearson - Carts - TT

I would try and get a Barzal or to a lesser exten Ho-Sang as I am big on young players that do not require draft protection.
That said I do not think the two clubs make good partner. The Islanders do not need anymore D as they maybe losing one to expansion (hickey) as is.

 

[KINGS17]

I think what you meant to say is we're both assuming two very likely scenarios....

with that said, I expect Kopitar, Carter, Toffli, Pearson, Doughty and Quick to either maintain their production or bounce back from their perspective down years....

its the other aspects of the team that will determine the direction our team will head in...
Brodzinski, Kempe, Muzzin, Martinez, Dowd, Gravel, Forbort, LaDue, Brown, Gaborik, heck even AMadio and Mersch....

Say what you will K17 but of the remaining playoff teams we match up well with all of them...

You can keep believing this, but based on recent performance it simply isn't true. Also, the Kings don't have the depth of the remaining playoff teams.

Also, I think you're wrong about the players who will determine the direction the Kings take next season. If Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, and Quick don't have big years, the Kings will probably miss the playoffs again. You're assuming a lot if you think all four will have banner years.

Hey maybe next year Doughty will play out of his mind like Karlsson is doing this season. Well, you know if it's enough fun. Of the remaining four teams in the playoffs, Ottawa is the only team I could see the Kings matching up with well.

 

[KrazyKat]

B. Schenn + A. Macdonald for J. Muzzin + Gaborik.

Contract swap. Talent swap.

 

[kings11]

You can keep believing this, but based on recent performance it simply isn't true. Also, the Kings don't have the depth of the remaining playoff teams.

Hey maybe next year Doughty will play out of his mind like Karlsson is doing this season. Well, you know if it's enough fun. Of the remaining four teams in the playoffs, Ottawa is the only team I could see the Kings matching up with well.

Really... granted it was/is the regular season but the Kings have outplayed the Pens and Nashville in the regular season, have owned the Ducks in the playoffs were physicality wears them down and have actually done poorly against Ottawa of the 4 teams...

Depth wise I agree, although we have some intriguing pieces coming up and some line combinations that could solidify our top 9.... This is also why I was hoping that DL would take a chance on a Eric Staal or Thomas Vanek instead of the junk we signed....

??????? - Kopitar - Toffoli
Pearson - Carter - Brodzinski
Brown - Kempe - Gaborik

Maybe RB can convince Patty Marleau to sign a STC with us??? wouldn't be the worse idea...
Also, I think Amadio comes up and takes that 3C from Kempe who might benefit better playing alongside Kopi and Toffoli...

 

[YP44]

B. Schenn + A. Macdonald for J. Muzzin + Gaborik.

Contract swap. Talent swap.

I think that is an easy pass by the flyers. Defense is definitely not a position they need to strengthen. They have amazing prospects on their way, and even though they will get a stud center at this years draft they are better off keeping Schenn and moving him permanently to the LW, or trading him for an upgraded winger.

 

[kings11]

I think that is an easy pass by the flyers. Defense is definitely not a position they need to strengthen. They have amazing prospects on their way, and even though they will get a stud center at this years draft they are better off keeping Schenn and moving him permanently to the LW, or trading him for an upgraded winger.

its fun to throw out crazy, unrealistic trades like myself and a few others have but truth be told we aren't making a big. bold move until the FO sees how the current roster reacts/improves/plays with a new coach/philosophy/offense.. Until Blake can properly assess how this team performs don't expect any trades until the deadline....

In the meantime, our focus should be on the youth we actually have on hand..
Forbort, LaDue, Gravel, Kempe, Brodzinski, Mersch and Amadio

“You have to evolve in the NHL,†Yannetti said. “Again, I like our model. I really like our model. But you have to continually be tweaking and have your model evolve. If you stop swimming, you sink.â€

The team won’t place “artificial limits†on players in terms of when they’ll be ready to contribute– “what if you had placed a limit on [Paul LaDue] that he’d need a full year and a half in the AHL?†Yannetti said – but did note that he does have the attributes to make the Kings a better team in some of the areas they want to improve in....

Very interesting quote and an obvious one considering many on here have been saying/arguing that DL and Co held back certain prospects..

 

[KINGS17]

Really... granted it was/is the regular season but the Kings have outplayed the Pens and Nashville in the regular season, have owned the Ducks in the playoffs were physicality wears them down and have actually done poorly against Ottawa of the 4 teams...

Depth wise I agree, although we have some intriguing pieces coming up and some line combinations that could solidify our top 9.... This is also why I was hoping that DL would take a chance on a Eric Staal or Thomas Vanek instead of the junk we signed....

??????? - Kopitar - Toffoli
Pearson - Carter - Brodzinski
Brown - Kempe - Gaborik

Maybe RB can convince Patty Marleau to sign a STC with us??? wouldn't be the worse idea...
Also, I think Amadio comes up and takes that 3C from Kempe who might benefit better playing alongside Kopi and Toffoli...

You are putting a lot of stock in a very limited sample size. The Kings have owned the Ducks in the playoffs? The Kings current team isn't anywhere near being the 2014 Stanley Cup Championship team, and the 2014 series went 7 games.

You need to stop living in the past or pretending that some of these so-called kids, because outside of Kempe and Amadio they aren't kids, are going to come in and provide the same level of play as Williams, Mitchell, Regehr or even Mike Richards.

I suppose some day we can expect the Kempe / Amadio combination to we better than the 2014 combination of Stoll / Richards, but better than the 2011-12, or 2012-13 combination of Stoll / Richards? They have a long, long way to go before that happens.

In the meantime Kopitar, Carter, and Quick will continue to start showing their age, and they are three key components to any success the Kings may have in the future.

 

[YP44]

its fun to throw out crazy, unrealistic trades like myself and a few others have but truth be told we aren't making a big. bold move until the FO sees how the current roster reacts/improves/plays with a new coach/philosophy/offense.. Until Blake can properly assess how this team performs don't expect any trades until the deadline....

In the meantime, our focus should be on the youth we actually have on hand..
Forbort, LaDue, Gravel, Kempe, Brodzinski, Mersch and Amadio

“You have to evolve in the NHL,†Yannetti said. “Again, I like our model. I really like our model. But you have to continually be tweaking and have your model evolve. If you stop swimming, you sink.â€

The team won’t place “artificial limits†on players in terms of when they’ll be ready to contribute– “what if you had placed a limit on [Paul LaDue] that he’d need a full year and a half in the AHL?†Yannetti said – but did note that he does have the attributes to make the Kings a better team in some of the areas they want to improve in....

Very interesting quote and an obvious one considering many on here have been saying/arguing that DL and Co held back certain prospects..

true...I keep floating out Muzzin for Kapenen as basis of deal pre-expansion draft. Lots of leaf fans were fans of it, but I feel like now the cats out of the bag a bit with his good showing in the playoffs.

 

[BigKing]

Kings don't match up well with any of the remaining teams in the playoffs.

They didn't match up well with any of the 16 that made it in the first place along with some of the ones that didn't make it either.

I highly doubt there is a move that Blake can make to seriously alter this team in a positive way. Going to need the core players to put up career averages (or equal career bests for 70 and 73) and then hope that the youth can make an impact with "impact" defined as more than just showing up and taking a shift.

Same boat as last season. Maybe a D for F swap but that will make the defense worse no matter how bad Muzzin or Martinez were last season. There doesn't appear to be a savior coming up from Ontario and I stopped penciling in top prospects during the early 00's.

Hope in one hand, **** in the other and see which gets full first. That's something to remember for those posters that see Top 6 and Top 4 scenarios for the Kings Top 10 prospects.

Only "hope" I have is that the best players on this team have fun or whatever is needed post-Sutter and it leads to results on the ice. Not the greatest thing to hang my hat on but at least I've seen these guys perform at a high level in the NHL v. counting on Mersch to pot 20 next season.

 

[deeshamrock]

B. Schenn + A. Macdonald for J. Muzzin + Gaborik.

Contract swap. Talent swap.

Not a talent swap Muzzin is a much better player. I've suffered thru every one of Schenn's games since the first preseason game vs the Leafs in Sep 2011, he's one zone, low IQ, player. Only effective on PP or Empty nets. Middle name is turnover, has zero in the way of on ice ability to read , react to play. That career -32 would be alot higher if Mason and Neuvy didn't save his backside on a shiftly basis. Cant' take or receive passes, win board battles, inconsistent, disappears on and off all season long. Has to stay at wing, is not responsible enough to be a center. Can't be trusted in his own end. Still here (4 yrs of trying to move) because every team has scouts and knows his liabilities. Keeping praying for the notice that he's been traded, esp now that there are young forwards that are ready to come up and a stud center on the way . Getting crowded in the top 9.

AMac's contract is one year shorter.
Flyers are overloaded with defense and likely some will move out.

 

[deeshamrock]

Kings don't match up well with any of the remaining teams in the playoffs.

They didn't match up well with any of the 16 that made it in the first place along with some of the ones that didn't make it either.

I highly doubt there is a move that Blake can make to seriously alter this team in a positive way. Going to need the core players to put up career averages (or equal career bests for 70 and 73) and then hope that the youth can make an impact with "impact" defined as more than just showing up and taking a shift.

Same boat as last season. Maybe a D for F swap but that will make the defense worse no matter how bad Muzzin or Martinez were last season. There doesn't appear to be a savior coming up from Ontario and I stopped penciling in top prospects during the early 00's.

Hope in one hand, **** in the other and see which gets full first. That's something to remember for those posters that see Top 6 and Top 4 scenarios for the Kings Top 10 prospects.

Only "hope" I have is that the best players on this team have fun or whatever is needed post-Sutter and it leads to results on the ice. Not the greatest thing to hang my hat on but at least I've seen these guys perform at a high level in the NHL v. counting on Mersch to pot 20 next season.

I don't think their defense was bad last year. Defense is the hardest position to adjust to coming into the NHL and takes some D, years to flesh out their game. I thought the young d played well and don't consider the Kings a contender next year , so let them play their minutes and grow their game
Lombardi was trying to move a d for a top 6 forward at the deadline and didn't pan out . I wonder if Blake and Luc are still of that mindset.

 

[BigKing]

I don't think their defense was bad last year. Defense is the hardest position to adjust to coming into the NHL and takes some D, years to flesh out their game. I thought the young d played well and don't consider the Kings a contender next year , so let them play their minutes and grow their game
Lombardi was trying to move a d for a top 6 forward at the deadline and didn't pan out . I wonder if Blake and Luc are still of that mindset.

I didn't mean to imply they were bad last year either, although Muzzin and Martinez were compared to past seasons. I'm not totally sold on the young D since the system is favorable towards good defensive numbers but I do agree that they need to play because they are cheap and its what we've got.

My point was moving one of 6/27 will make the defense worse. I think we are all willing to sacrifice that for more offense but moving one of these guys will have a negative impact on the blue line.

 

[KINGS17]

Kings don't match up well with any of the remaining teams in the playoffs.

They didn't match up well with any of the 16 that made it in the first place along with some of the ones that didn't make it either.

I highly doubt there is a move that Blake can make to seriously alter this team in a positive way. Going to need the core players to put up career averages (or equal career bests for 70 and 73) and then hope that the youth can make an impact with "impact" defined as more than just showing up and taking a shift.

Same boat as last season. Maybe a D for F swap but that will make the defense worse no matter how bad Muzzin or Martinez were last season. There doesn't appear to be a savior coming up from Ontario and I stopped penciling in top prospects during the early 00's.

Hope in one hand, **** in the other and see which gets full first. That's something to remember for those posters that see Top 6 and Top 4 scenarios for the Kings Top 10 prospects.

Only "hope" I have is that the best players on this team have fun or whatever is needed post-Sutter and it leads to results on the ice. Not the greatest thing to hang my hat on but at least I've seen these guys perform at a high level in the NHL v. counting on Mersch to pot 20 next season.

Words to live by. I must have heard that from my Dad about 100 times when I was growing up.

I sure hope Kopitar is worth the contract he signed.

I sure hope Doughty re-signs with the Kings.

I hope Toffoli is a 30-goal a year man even though he has only done it once.

I hope Quick never wrecks his groin again.

I hope Vegas takes Brown in the expansion draft.

I hope Brodzinski is a top sixer.

 

[deeshamrock]

I didn't mean to imply they were bad last year either, although Muzzin and Martinez were compared to past seasons. I'm not totally sold on the young D since the system is favorable towards good defensive numbers but I do agree that they need to play because they are cheap and its what we've got.

My point was moving one of 6/27 will make the defense worse. I think we are all willing to sacrifice that for more offense but moving one of these guys will have a negative impact on the blue line.

Perhaps but don't forget a large part of their success was the defensive system Murray/Sutter put in place. That will change and with it, so might their impact. I've seen that happen before with teams, esp defense. Their comfort level might not be the same. And Muzzin's effectiveness was tied to partnering with DD.

I think this new front office group is looking at all angles, projecting out a few years, because of the young upcoming teams in the division. I'm sure they are aware they need to lose one if not both of Gabby and Brown's paper over the next 2 years. I think they are mapping out which path forward would be the most viable given the roster. It won't happen in 1 yr or 2 but they have to start making changes, esp with an aging core. New blood, young blood on the team will help, but as the King's top prospects, not NHL top prospects.