2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

[Reclamation Project]

No way, far too much. 4.25 per/6 years.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He scored 30 goals once. He isn't THAT young. He is 25 years old. There is no guarantee he will improve. At this point he may just be what he is, and if he can sustain a 20-25 goal pace for the next 3 or 4 years that would be fine, but it isn't $30M fine.

You're right he isn't a 3rd liner, he is a 2nd line player who has the ability to play on the 1st line from time to time.

I think some of you are going to be shocked at how the numbers for many of these guys aren't going to increase by 30% just because the Kings have a "new system".

Alright. So we don't pay our UFAs because they're past their production prime. We now don't pay our RFAs for future performance based on past precedent? I thought your whole argument was locking up youth and getting ahead? Who DO we pay?

Even if he doesn't improve--what's the going rate for 25-goal, 50-point players? And that's a conservative estimate?

*cough Jaden Schwartz*

You're free to lowball him, but Toffoli has a lot of reasons to NOT accept a lowball offer at this point, and your hardball "take it or walk" stuff is fun on a message board but you would be getting laughed out of the real negotiation room.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

No way, far too much. 4.25 per/6 years.

Too long for that money if I'm his agent, but I could strangely see Tyler accepting that on loving LA. Maybe 4.5 x 6.

I'm glad we all agree on ballpark figures at least of 4-5.5 and 4-6 years. Just realize that every UFA year is going to jack that price up exponentially, but every year we take off--while it will save money up front--will be less control over the player as he'll hit UFA sooner.

 

[KINGS17]

Alright. So we don't pay our UFAs because they're past their production prime. We now don't pay our RFAs for future performance based on past precedent? I thought your whole argument was locking up youth and getting ahead? Who DO we pay?

Even if he doesn't improve--what's the going rate for 25-goal, 50-point players? And that's a conservative estimate?

*cough Jaden Schwartz*

You're free to lowball him, but Toffoli has a lot of reasons to NOT accept a lowball offer at this point, and your hardball "take it or walk" stuff is fun on a message board but you would be getting laughed out of the real negotiation room.

When he signed his last deal I was advocating going long on Toffoli for 6 or 7 years, and I was all for giving him the $4.5M a season then. That is how I would like to see the Kings do things. Lombardi couldn't do it because he had to save that extra $2M a season for Kopitar's ridiculous deal.

$4.5M - $5M a season is not lowballing Toffoli.

Regarding Schwartz, Toffoli isn't on the same level, especially when it comes to being a playmaker. Toffoli is a year older and has two very productive seasons of 49 and 58 points.

Schwartz is 24 years old and in his last three full seasons has 56, 63, and 55 points. See the difference? Schwartz AAV is $5.35M.

I would trade Toffoli straight up for Schwartz every day of the week, which is why Toffoli should take slightly less money to sign. Thanks for bringing up a comparable player to make my point. Keep'em coming.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Players value term over annual salary. Toffoli wont accept anything below 6 years. His AAV should be around 4.5 if that's the case.

 

[KINGS17]

Just a little fun fact regarding Kopitar's contract.

Last season and in the coming season he received and will receive $9M at the beginning of the season. Last year he was then paid $5M over the course of the season for a total of $14M. Next season Kopitar will receive $4M over the course of the season for a total of $13M.

 

[Reclamation Project]

"Surely KINGS17 won't bring up Kopitar in a Toffoli discussion!" - This Board

 

[KINGS17]

"Surely KINGS17 won't bring up Kopitar in a Toffoli discussion!" - This Board

I know, but Kopitar's deal has a huge influence, and it's one of the reasons Dean needed Toffoli to sign a bridge deal. This is a thread about the roster though, so...

 

[AlphaBravo]

I think we should relitigate whether DL should have given Kopitar the $10 million/yr. contract even though DL is no longer with the Kings, and Kopitar's contract cannot be rewritten. It's the offseason, why not?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

When he signed his last deal I was advocating going long on Toffoli for 6 or 7 years, and I was all for giving him the $4.5M a season then. That is how I would like to see the Kings do things. Lombardi couldn't do it because he had to save that extra $2M a season for Kopitar's ridiculous deal.

$4.5M - $5M a season is not lowballing Toffoli.

Regarding Schwartz, Toffoli isn't on the same level, especially when it comes to being a playmaker. Toffoli is a year older and has two very productive seasons of 49 and 58 points.

Schwartz is 24 years old and in his last three full seasons has 56, 63, and 55 points. See the difference? Schwartz AAV is $5.35M.

I would trade Toffoli straight up for Schwartz every day of the week, which is why Toffoli should take slightly less money to sign. Thanks for bringing up a comparable player to make my point. Keep'em coming.

I would agree with you on 4.5 to 5 million. Not sure where all the hardball stuff is coming from if that's the figure you land on. Like, you go back 10 posts and you're arguing about his actual value with everyone, then come up with the same dollar. You're welcome for me doing your homework for you though. lol at the idea that 31 goals and 58 points isn't even in the same ballpark of Schwartz's production though, especially going on the 'full season' premise.

 

[KINGS17]

I would agree with you on 4.5 to 5 million. Not sure where all the hardball stuff is coming from if that's the figure you land on. Like, you go back 10 posts and you're arguing about his actual value with everyone, then come up with the same dollar. You're welcome for me doing your homework for you though. lol at the idea that 31 goals and 58 points isn't even in the same ballpark of Schwartz's production though, especially going on the 'full season' premise.

We have people on here saying $5M for 7 years. Not a good idea. Again, you cherry pick Toffoli best season and act like it's an average year. In terms of consistency and age, Toffoli is at a slightly lower level than Schwartz.

 

[theMajor]

I think we should relitigate whether DL should have given Kopitar the $10 million/yr. contract even though DL is no longer with the Kings, and Kopitar's contract cannot be rewritten. It's the offseason, why not?

its already been beaten to death a million and one times, whats a million and two?

 

[damacles1156]

Toffoli shouldn't sign any contract longer than Two-Three years. He should not sell any of his UFA years.

He needs to come back and have strong seasons again, before he hits UFA. Toffoli getting hurt, really screwed him over in terms of leverage.

If Toffoli would have scored 30 again, he would have wrote his own check pretty much.

When was the last King to score back to back 30G seasons ?

 

[kings11]

Toffoli shouldn't sign any contract longer than Two-Three years. He should not sell any of his UFA years.

He needs to come back and have strong seasons again, before he hits UFA. Toffoli getting hurt, really screwed him over in terms of leverage.

If Toffoli would have scored 30 again, he would have wrote his own check pretty much.

When was the last King to score back to back 30G seasons ?

Ziggy Palffy ???? lol

 

[damacles1156]

Ziggy Palffy ???? lol

Correct.

2000-03 all 30+goal seasons.

 

[kings11]

Correct.

2000-03 all 30+goal seasons.

Deadmarsh - Allison - Palffy

AD was turning into a monster until he got that concussion

 

[HookKing]

Deadmarsh - Allison - Palffy

AD was turning into a monster until he got that concussion

Which is why you sign long term contracts when you can.

 

[Scottkmlps]

When he signed his last deal I was advocating going long on Toffoli for 6 or 7 years, and I was all for giving him the $4.5M a season then. That is how I would like to see the Kings do things. Lombardi couldn't do it because he had to save that extra $2M a season for Kopitar's ridiculous deal.

Wrong.

"Lombardi stressed that acquiring Lucic was possible after right wing Tyler Toffoli re-signed Friday for a reported $6.5 million over two years. Toffoli could've become a restricted free agent July 1.

"Once this thing got rolling, we could not do this without Tyler signing," Lombardi said."

https://www.nhl.com/news/lucic-traded-to-kings-by-bruins-for-jones-pick/c-772397

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

I know, but Kopitar's deal has a huge influence, and it's one of the reasons Dean needed Toffoli to sign a bridge deal. This is a thread about the roster though, so...

When he signed his last deal I was advocating going long on Toffoli for 6 or 7 years, and I was all for giving him the $4.5M a season then. That is how I would like to see the Kings do things. Lombardi couldn't do it because he had to save that extra $2M a season for Kopitar's ridiculous deal.

$4.5M - $5M a season is not lowballing Toffoli.

Regarding Schwartz, Toffoli isn't on the same level, especially when it comes to being a playmaker. Toffoli is a year older and has two very productive seasons of 49 and 58 points.

Schwartz is 24 years old and in his last three full seasons has 56, 63, and 55 points. See the difference? Schwartz AAV is $5.35M.

I would trade Toffoli straight up for Schwartz every day of the week, which is why Toffoli should take slightly less money to sign. Thanks for bringing up a comparable player to make my point. Keep'em coming.

All goes back to Dean being a complete idiot and not buying out Mike Richards with the compliance buyout when he had the chance. I don't tie it to Kopitar. I tie it to Mike Richards.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Will Blake be handing out NMC's to get guys to take less term? One of the areas Dean did do well in was his lack of NMC's, they are probably more deadly than long term deals. Imagine the power to tell your employer "no, you're not gonna fire me" regardless of production.

 

[DoktorJeep]

My guess is that Blake has a number he is willing to sign Toffoli to and that is based on the cap space he needs to fill holes at forward. I can't see how he budgeted more than $5m /yr for TT and still have enough to add another 5-6m dollar forward to the roster. Which is something he hinted at during the first press conference.

Wouldn't be surprised to learn if he's presented his best and final offer which is good up to the draft or UFA season. The question I have is what is TT's priority, term length or dollar amount? I bet if it goes to a hold out it is about dollar amount at which point I think Blake does a sign and trade.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Which would suck, but hey, hello revamped defence.

 

[AlphaBravo]

My guess is that Blake has a number he is willing to sign Toffoli to and that is based on the cap space he needs to fill holes at forward. I can't see how he budgeted more than $5m /yr for TT and still have enough to add another 5-6m dollar forward to the roster. Which is something he hinted at during the first press conference.

Wouldn't be surprised to learn if he's presented his best and final offer which is good up to the draft or UFA season. The question I have is what is TT's priority, term length or dollar amount? I bet if it goes to a hold out it is about dollar amount at which point I think Blake does a sign and trade.

Blake can sign TT for $5/yr. and also have cap space to fill the roster and sign another top six forward for $5-6 million/yr. John Hoven and I have posted on several occasions what our cap space looks like next year, and we have enough to make a big splash in free agency, assuming a free agent wants to sign here.

 

[kovacro]

Blake can sign TT for $5/yr. and also have cap space to fill the roster and sign another top six forward for $5-6 million/yr. John Hoven and I have posted on several occasions what our cap space looks like next year, and we have enough to make a big splash in free agency, assuming a free agent wants to sign here.

I would prefer to stay away from making a "big splash" a.k.a overpaying someone in free agency. Sit back and let other GM's go give retirement contracts out to guys that will under perform.

Rather go the trade route to find a younger controllable player. Dangle Muzzin and/or Martinez and see what the going rate is.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Blake can sign TT for $5/yr. and also have cap space to fill the roster and sign another top six forward for $5-6 million/yr. John Hoven and I have posted on several occasions what our cap space looks like next year, and we have enough to make a big splash in free agency, assuming a free agent wants to sign here.

Yeah, with the cap increase, (hopefully) Greene to LTIR, and losing Lewis or McNabb, the Kings should have around $6-7 million in cap space after filling out the roster. I have 22 players signed with around $6.6 million in cap space.

I would prefer to stay away from making a "big splash" a.k.a overpaying someone in free agency. Sit back and let other GM's go give retirement contracts out to guys that will under perform.

Rather go the trade route to find a younger controllable player. Dangle Muzzin and/or Martinez and see what the going rate is.

I agree. No one worth signing for a lot of money. Pass on Oshie and Radulov. I'll take Boyle though if he wants to sign for cheap. Maybe a couple depth players like San Jose did with Ward/Martin. Hopefully on short term deals though.