2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

[KINGS17]

I think the Kings will be better offensively than they are given credit for.

We saw the success they had in 3-on-3 when they COULDN'T play Sutter's system, due to the open ice.

Of course 5-on-5 changes the dynamic, but I think they will be near the top half of the league in goals for.

Most of this due to Carter, Pearson, and Doughty. Also Martinez.

 

[Fishhead]

With the expansion draft a month away, I can't help but wonder how the protected list might have changed based on the new front office. I'm sure they have their favorites.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Bishop's rights traded to Dallas for a fourth.

 

[palffytofrovlov]

I thought we would get at least a 3rd rounder for him...

 

[Cook24]

Muzzin and a pick for Drouin. Gaborik and a pick to Vegas. Bring back Voynov. Mcnabb to wherever.

Drouin-Kopitar-Brodzinski
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Kempe-Brown
Clifford-Dowd-Nolan/Auger

Forbort-Doughty
Martinez-Voynov
Gravel/MacDermid-LaDue

Quick/Campbell

 

[KINGS17]

Muzzin and a pick for Drouin. Gaborik and a pick to Vegas. Bring back Voynov. Mcnabb to wherever.

Drouin-Kopitar-Brodzinski
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Kempe-Brown
Clifford-Dowd-Nolan/Auger

Forbort-Doughty
Martinez-Voynov
Gravel/MacDermid-LaDue

Quick/Campbell

Vegas isn't doing this, ever.

 

[damacles1156]

Most of this due to Carter, Pearson, and Doughty. Also Martinez.

Open ice, it's really all there is too it.

You are providing supremely skilled players (open ice).

 

[King'sPawn]

Open ice, it's really all there is too it.

You are providing supremely skilled players (open ice).

Thank you. That's my point. Opening up the ice for the personnel should improve performance and longevity for the team.

 

[damacles1156]

Thank you. That's my point. Opening up the ice for the personnel should improve performance and longevity for the team.

5 vs 5 there is no open ice, it's what teams are trying to take away AT ALL TIMES, Regardless of system.


It's what the Kings were good at doing in 2012-14, taking away open ice.

You are going to be severely disappointed to see the Kings play similar next season.

The players make the system, not the other way around.

 

[KINGS17]

5 vs 5 there is no open ice, it's what teams are trying to take away AT ALL TIMES, Regardless of system.


It's what the Kings were good at doing in 2012-14, taking away open ice.

You are going to be severely disappointed to see the Kings play, similar next season.

The players make the system, not the other way around.

No, no, no. The Kings are going to open it up next season and goals are going to rain down from the sky. It has nothing to do with the players.

 

[damacles1156]

No, no, no. The Kings are going to open it up next season and goals are going to rain down from the sky. It has nothing to do with the players.

It's why you draft a certain way.

That seems to fly over everyone's heads.

There are small adjustments you can make to (provide more ice for skilled guys).

BUT, while you are trying to do that, there is another team on the ice, trying to prevent you from doing so.

 

[damacles1156]

In the end, what does it always come down to folks ?

Your best players, beating the other teams best players, THAT'S IT !

Did the Kings have the BEST system in 2012 ? No.

2014 ? Best system ? No.

The Kings best players, were just that, the best on the ice.

 

[KINGS17]

It's why you draft a certain way.

That seems to fly over everyone's heads.

Apparently Brodzinski, Wagner, Amadio, and Watson are going to be just what the doctor ordered. Gone will be guys like Clifford, Lewis, and Brown. I'm tellin' ya these kids are the real deal.

All these 3rd, 4th, and 5th round draft picks are going to be top sixers some day for the Kings.

Uh, just in case anyone forgot Toffoli, Pearson, Clifford, Lewis and Brown were all 1st and 2nd round picks. That's where you find top six forwards, and even then sometimes it's a swing and a miss.

 

[damacles1156]

Apparently Brodzinski, Wagner, Amadio, and Watson are going to be just what the doctor ordered. Gone will be guys like Clifford, Lewis, and Brown. I'm tellin' ya these kids are the real deal.

All these 3rd, 4th, and 5th round draft picks are going to be top sixers some day for the Kings.

Uh, just in case anyone forgot Toffoli, Pearson, Clifford, Lewis and Brown were all 1st and 2nd round picks. That's where you find top six forwards, and even then sometimes it's a swing and a miss.

The players have to execute period, the buck stops with them.

Once the players start dictating when a coach gets fired (by stop playing hard) then the coach/system is irrelevant.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Apparently Brodzinski, Wagner, Amadio, and Watson are going to be just what the doctor ordered. Gone will be guys like Clifford, Lewis, and Brown. I'm tellin' ya these kids are the real deal.

All these 3rd, 4th, and 5th round draft picks are going to be top sixers some day for the Kings.

Uh, just in case anyone forgot Toffoli, Pearson, Clifford, Lewis and Brown were all 1st and 2nd round picks. That's where you find top six forwards, and even then sometimes it's a swing and a miss.

The Kings haven't drafted a productive forward in the second round since selecting Toffoli in 2010, and their last successful selection of a productive forward was Pearson in 2012. Maybe there's a reason why Lombardi was moving so many early picks, as their selections the last number of years have been quite average.

 

[damacles1156]

The Kings haven't drafted a productive forward in the second round since selecting Toffoli in 2010, and their last successful selection of a productive forward was Pearson in 2012. Maybe there's a reason why Lombardi was moving so many early picks, as their selections the last number of years have been quite average.

Why doesn't Futa and his staff get any blame for this ?

Do they just get a clean slate, and a pass ?

Blame it all on Lombardi ?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Why doesn't Futa and his staff get any blame for this ?

Do they just get a clean slate, and a pass ?

Blame it all on Lombardi ?

I guess I give they have the benefit of doubt after Al Murray stated that in 2006, he wanted to take Lucic but Lombardi advised him to take a big dman, which resulted in Joey Ryan. Lombardi is involved in the draft process. We'll see how this staff does this year. If they make similar selections based on "character," then we'll have a better frame of mind as to how this scouting staff operates.

 

[Kingspiracy]

The Kings haven't drafted a productive forward in the second round since selecting Toffoli in 2010, and their last successful selection of a productive forward was Pearson in 2012. Maybe there's a reason why Lombardi was moving so many early picks, as their selections the last number of years have been quite average.

Theyve mainly drafted dmen or not had the picks since then. We had zykov and kempe in the first two rounds since pearson.

Wiki has a list but im struggling to link on the phone.

Dl built from the net out and moved picks pushing for a 3rd cup, not surprising that we dont have the sexy forward we all want. Kempe looks decent....

 

[deeshamrock]

Vegas isn't doing this, ever.

Neither is Tampa Bay...

 

[Reclamation Project]

Vegas isn't doing this, ever.

Vegas is the league's garbage can though! They'll do anything...

Foley isn't a damn fool like so many on this site think he is. They'll be very competitive within 5 years, guaranteed. He buys low and sells high, he knows how to make a proper investment. He wouldn't have done all of this to ice a garbage team in a few years.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Some interesting info posted yesterday on Rosen's blog:

http://lakingsinsider.com/2017/05/0...ne-addressed-bishop-toffolipearson-contracts/

Conversations with hockey operations have indicated that the Kings will continue to be active in the goaltending market, whether via NHL free agents, NCAA free agents (note that they finished as runner up for the services of Yale’s Alex Lyon last spring), or the types of trades that brought Jack Campbell to the Kings for defensive prospect Nick Ebert last June. “There are too many holes in the train after Quick,” one hockey operations source told LA Kings Insider.

There are two processes in play here. First, there is the need to find a back-up to Jonathan Quick for the 2017-18 season, and the team is looking for additional options. This is a position that will not simply be handed over to Campbell with white gloves on; rather, expect to see significant competition at training camp.

There’s no firm negotiating update to share here, but the word from hockey operations is that they are “actively working diligently” to ensure restricted free agents Tyler Toffoli and Tanner Pearson are under contract with the Kings next season. “They want to be here and we want them to be here,” said one source who noted there never has been any discussion at any point of either of those players being anywhere but Los Angeles else in 2017-18.

That applies to the current staff; an email conversation nine months ago with Dean Lombardi indicated that locking down both with new contracts would be difficult, and that the possibility of a trade existed. But Lombardi is no longer helming the ship, so this recent correspondence should represent some positivity towards working towards a new contract with both. Hockey operations clearly sees both players as a huge part of the team’s core, and for a team that has clear offensive needs, these players represent a huge priority this off-season.

As thankful as I am for what Lombardi did for the team in building an infrastructure that emphasized player development and cultivating an identity and winning culture, I am also thankful that he has moved on, as the information provided above seemed to indicate that he was leaning towards moving one of the two. A team starving for goals, looking to move one of its two youngest and most productive wingers... that doesn't sound like smart asset management to me.

Goes to show you the frame of mind Lombardi has been in if he was considering moving Pearson or Toffoli. How is he going to replace those goals? A team isn't going to trade a better, more productive forward for either one of them, so it would either consist of the Kings getting younger, unproven assets, or an older, proven player, like they got with Lucic and Sekera.

Hopefully this season was an albatross for Toffoli, as well as all the other unproductive players who performed well below their expectations. If that wasn't an aberration, then we really need to start worrying about whether or not this team still has a "Cup window."

 

[damacles1156]

The Cup window is closed.

Just personal feeling.

Like Sutter said, "You can't coach emotion, or buy in, to the game"

These players are done killing themselves to win cups.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The Cup window is closed.

Just personal feeling.

Like Sutter said, "You can't coach emotion, or buy in, to the game"

These players are done killing themselves to win cups.

Could be, but this sport is so cyclical, can't predict how Chicago would get bounced so easily, or how far that dominant Bruins team fell after 2011, same with Pittsburgh's seven year drought after people expected them to remain atop the league after back-to-back Cup appearances (and the only post salary cap era team to accomplish that along with the Red Wings).

The team as it is isn't a Cup contender, but maybe with some added help and if things go right in terms of production, player progression, and getting hot at the right time, I'd say those things are still possible. Whether or not it's likely to happen is questionable, but I don't think it's impossible.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Whether the Kings are Cup contenders or not rests solely at the feet of #11 and #8. Especially after last season and the disastrous ending.

 

[The Tikkanen]

The Cup window is closed.

Just personal feeling.

Like Sutter said, "You can't coach emotion, or buy in, to the game"

These players are done killing themselves to win cups.

Blake needs to identify players who are "saving themselves" or have other off ice tasks that rank higher than winning at hockey and move them. For instance a guy who may be really tired from raising a bunch of kids so he no longer does the stuff that made him a good power forward. Gaborik was having a miserable season and used the week off to fly to Cuba to hang out and have fun. That's not championship caliber stuff, that's a fat cat cashing in and enjoying the spoils. This team can still win they just need to find a way to dispatch a couple players who are holding the team hostage with fat money deals and lackluster on ice performance.