2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part III

[funky]

So uh, about trading Martinez...

Trade him to Winnipeg for Dano

Protected

Doughty
Muzzin
Forbert
Gravel - exempt
LaDue - exempt

Kopitar
Carter
Toffoli
Pearson
Dowd
Dano
one more player that we can choose from
Kempe - exempt


I like Martinez but he is such a defensive liability. I love what I am seeing from Forbert and think he is already the better defenceman and is also younger, cheaper , and has a higher ceiling.

I covet Dano as he has everything we embody and would provide some much needed skill on our 3rd line. Cheap and young.

Jets need a LHD.

Moving Martinez sheds 4 million more salary for next year.

Look at the Depth for next year on guaranteed players

Kempe - Kopitar - Toffoli
Pearson - Carter - *Brown
Dano - Dowd -


Doughty - Muzzin
-------- - Forbert
LaDue - Gravel

* don't think Vegas will take that contract, hopefully they take Gabby


Maybe I am a little more sold on youth than most but that is already a balanced, younger lineup with some good value contracts to balance the bad.

would love to get a RHD that can run a PP.

 

[YP44]

Trade him to Winnipeg for Dano

Protected

Doughty
Muzzin
Forbert
Gravel - exempt
LaDue - exempt

Kopitar
Carter
Toffoli
Pearson
Dowd
Dano
one more player that we can choose from
Kempe - exempt


I like Martinez but he is such a defensive liability. I love what I am seeing from Forbert and think he is already the better defenceman and is also younger, cheaper , and has a higher ceiling.

I covet Dano as he has everything we embody and would provide some much needed skill on our 3rd line. Cheap and young.

Jets need a LHD.

Moving Martinez sheds 4 million more salary for next year.

Look at the Depth for next year on guaranteed players

Kempe - Kopitar - Toffoli
Pearson - Carter - *Brown
Dano - Dowd -


Doughty - Muzzin
-------- - Forbert
LaDue - Gravel

* don't think Vegas will take that contract, hopefully they take Gabby


Maybe I am a little more sold on youth than most but that is already a balanced, younger lineup with some good value contracts to balance the bad.

would love to get a RHD that can run a PP.

Based on your lineup I was thinking that your were thinking Vegas would take McNabb, but then I saw the Gaborik comment.

So do you think the deal would be McNabb + Martinez for Dano or what happens to McNabb?

 

[funky]

Based on your lineup I was thinking that your were thinking Vegas would take McNabb, but then I saw the Gaborik comment.

So do you think the deal would be McNabb + Martinez for Dano or what happens to McNabb?

I actually think Vegas will pass on McNabb do to the fact there are many other quality Dman they can poach and McNabb will be UFA in a year. I personally think they take Lewis, wish they took Gabby.

I didn't include any players in my lineup that were not guaranteed to be protected other than Brown as we know Vegas is not going to bail us out on him. We could very well have McNabb and even Greene next year to add to that defense core.

I just think if there was ever a time to trade Martinez it would be now. I think Winnipeg needs a LHD and they have a young player "Dano" that I covet and they can spare.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

I actually think Vegas will pass on McNabb do to the fact there are many other quality Dman they can poach and McNabb will be UFA in a year. I personally think they take Lewis, wish they took Gabby.

I didn't include any players in my lineup that were not guaranteed to be protected other than Brown as we know Vegas is not going to bail us out on him. We could very well have McNabb and even Greene next year to add to that defense core.

I just think if there was ever a time to trade Martinez it would be now. I think Winnipeg needs a LHD and they have a young player "Dano" that I covet and they can spare.

Is Dano even regarded that highly anymore? I know he's still only 22 years old and has been in and out of the lineup but if his ceiling is a 3rd liner, the Kings can surely get more for Martinez.

 

[dman3474]

there are plenty of third and fourth liners on the roster and in the system, need top line guys

 

[funky]

there are plenty of third and fourth liners on the roster and in the system, need top line guys

but what top line guys are available on our budget with our assets?

 

[KINGS17]

Enough with the Chicago thing. They're not 6th in the league because of their young guys. A 38 year old has more to do with it than a 22 year old. Their core is as stale as the Kings, just more productive. They even brought back a 37 year old defenseman that they traded away years ago.

Toews 11g 24a
Kopitar 6g 27a

Hossa 20g 14a
Gaborik 6g 7a

Kane 19g 39a
F it we having nothing like Kane

Panarin 19g 32a
Toffoli 9g 12a

Anisimov 20g 20a
Pearson 18g 14a

The Hawks have nothing like Carter
Carter 29g 23a

Keith 5g 35a
Doughty 8g 24a

How many of these comparisons favor the Kings? One, and maybe one other one is even.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Toews 11g 24a
Kopitar 6g 27a

Hossa 20g 14a
Gaborik 6g 7a

Kane 19g 39a
F it we having nothing like Kane

Panarin 19g 32a
Toffoli 9g 12a

Anisimov 20g 20a
Pearson 18g 14a

The Hawks have nothing like Carter
Carter 29g 23a

Keith 5g 35a
Doughty 8g 24a

How many of these comparisons favor the Kings? One, and maybe one other one is even.

Splitting hairs but a fair comparison even though it's a baby seal clubbing is Carter vs. Anisimov. At least in terms of 'role'. Then you could move Pearson next to Kane and we'd still have to laugh at it.

But that wasn't really the point, KingsFan7824 said "They're not 6th in the league because of their young guys" and that's 100% correct. They're getting more out of their big guns so far. Really the biggest difference though is goaltending and injuries. For a long time they were getting league-near-best goaltending while we were getting near-league-worst which allowed them to get thru the lean stretches before the rest of the team could wake up. We're just waiting and hoping on that last part.



Like I said in another thread, we're just now assembling our full, healthy roster (still minus Quick--hope Budaj can hold on) with a more favorable schedule, so we are either going to peak at the right time or fizzle out.

 

[Reaper45]

What was our record number of man games lost during the Deadmarsh, Allison debacle? 420something?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

What was our record number of man games lost during the Deadmarsh, Allison debacle? 420something?

"In 2002–03, the Kings just missed breaking the unofficial NHL record for the most man-games lost to injury in a season with 536. But they would easily surpass the record in 2003–04 with 629 man-games lost."

The Gretzky statue curse IIRC!

 

[AlphaBravo]

Budaj has done the best he can and kept us a bubble team, but lol at people who think Budaj and Quick are of the same caliber and it makes no difference that Quick is out.

I totally agree with Sutter here: http://lakingsinsider.com/2017/02/17/february-17-practice-notes-darryl-sutter-quotes/

Bad and inconsistent goaltending is killing us. Not a knock on Budaj, but I am sure we would have at least 4 or 6 more points (if not more) if Quick was healthy. If he comes back in March at full-Quick mode, we control our destiny considering how many times we play Calgary.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Budaj has done the best he can and kept us a bubble team, but lol at people who think Budaj and Quick are of the same caliber and it makes no difference that Quick is out.

I totally agree with Sutter here: http://lakingsinsider.com/2017/02/17/february-17-practice-notes-darryl-sutter-quotes/

Bad and inconsistent goaltending is killing us. Not a knock on Budaj, but I am sure we would have at least 4 or 6 more points (if not more) if Quick was healthy. If he comes back in March at full-Quick mode, we control our destiny considering how many times we play Calgary.

Budaj is fantastic at the routine outside shots, and we've had less scoring chances against than 2012.

Quick might give up a goofy goal once in a while, but there's no one better when we're actually under seige.

Funny enough, our team strengths mask Quick's true abilities until the playoffs when we play a series of uber-teams.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

What was our record number of man games lost during the Deadmarsh, Allison debacle? 420something?

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/mar/12/sports/sp-kingrep12

Unofficially, the Kings will break the record for man-games lost to injury Saturday against the San Jose Sharks. The Kings have lost 571 man-games and, with five players expected to be sidelined Saturday, will pass the 573 lost by the Boston Bruins in 1991-92. The NHL does not officially record man-games lost to injury.

Deadmarsh, out since December 2002 because of a concussion, and Allison, out since January 2003 because of whiplash, have each missed 68 games this season, accounting for about one-fourth of the man-games lost.

Right wing Ziggy Palffy has missed 29 games since sustaining a season-ending dislocated shoulder in January. Defenseman Aaron Miller missed 47 games because of a fractured wrist and a pinched nerve in his neck. Rookie forward Dustin Brown missed 41 games because of a severely sprained ankle.

Prospect Jared Aulin, traded Monday to the Washington Capitals, missed 65 games because of a dislocated shoulder.

The Kings lost 536 man-games last season to injuries and other ailments.

The Tampa Bay Lightning, which has the most points in the league, has lost 17 man-games this season.

That 2003-04 season sure was a season to forget. But hey, they did get Anson Carter for Jared Aulin!

 

[Reaper45]

"In 2002–03, the Kings just missed breaking the unofficial NHL record for the most man-games lost to injury in a season with 536. But they would easily surpass the record in 2003–04 with 629 man-games lost."

The Gretzky statue curse IIRC!

Insane, thank you.

 

[Reaper45]

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/mar/12/sports/sp-kingrep12


That 2003-04 season sure was a season to forget. But hey, they did get Anson Carter for Jared Aulin!

Good ol future considerations Aulin. Blows his shoulder out defending Cammalleri in a rookie game and that was the end of it for him NHL wise. Can't believe he's still playing.

 

[CTKingsFan]

Budaj has done the best he can and kept us a bubble team, but lol at people who think Budaj and Quick are of the same caliber and it makes no difference that Quick is out.

I totally agree with Sutter here: http://lakingsinsider.com/2017/02/17/february-17-practice-notes-darryl-sutter-quotes/

Bad and inconsistent goaltending is killing us. Not a knock on Budaj, but I am sure we would have at least 4 or 6 more points (if not more) if Quick was healthy. If he comes back in March at full-Quick mode, we control our destiny considering how many times we play Calgary.

I remember seeing some stat on fsw about the Kings record in games where they score 1-2 goals last year with Quick verse this year with Budaj. And Quick had a very high winning percentage in those games, while Budaj had a high losing percentage. Basically showing that although Budaj puts up similar numbers. Quick wins games the team has no business winning.

Not meant to be a knock on Budaj. But it just shows why Quick is an elite starter and Budaj a solid back up.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I remember seeing some stat on fsw about the Kings record in games where they score 1-2 goals last year with Quick verse this year with Budaj. And Quick had a very high winning percentage in those games, while Budaj had a high losing percentage. Basically showing that although Budaj puts up similar numbers. Quick wins games the team has no bussiness winning.

Not meant to be a knock on Budaj. But it just shows why Quick is an elite starter and Budaj a solid back up.

Here's where their record stands now when it comes to scoring a goal (or less), two goals, or three or more goals...

1 GF or less: 2-16-0

2 GF: 2-4-3

3+ GF: 24-4-1

Kings have been shutout seven times already this season. Seems like getting to three goals at the very least is what they need to accomplish, and they've been involved in 27 games where they are held to two or less goals.

That's just not good enough to win you games.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Toews 11g 24a
Kopitar 6g 27a

Hossa 20g 14a
Gaborik 6g 7a

Kane 19g 39a
F it we having nothing like Kane

Panarin 19g 32a
Toffoli 9g 12a

Anisimov 20g 20a
Pearson 18g 14a

The Hawks have nothing like Carter
Carter 29g 23a

Keith 5g 35a
Doughty 8g 24a

How many of these comparisons favor the Kings? One, and maybe one other one is even.

Don't forget whatever it is that happened to Muzzin this year too.

I remember seeing some stat on fsw about the Kings record in games where they score 1-2 goals last year with Quick verse this year with Budaj. And Quick had a very high winning percentage in those games, while Budaj had a high losing percentage. Basically showing that although Budaj puts up similar numbers. Quick wins games the team has no business winning.

Not meant to be a knock on Budaj. But it just shows why Quick is an elite starter and Budaj a solid back up.

Of course. Budaj is having a career year this year, and his numbers are at about Quick's career average.

Budaj is having a career best season, but Zatkoff is having a career worst season, and of course Quick has been hurt more than ever. Carter might not match his career best season, but he's on pace to come close. On the other hand, Kopitar will almost certainly not reach his full season career low of 16 goals this year, and may struggle to reach even the 10 goals he had in the lockout shortened season. Pearson, already a career high in goals and goals per game, and should establish a career high in points soon. On the other hand, Gaborik might finish with a career low in goals, in relation to any year of his career, whether healthy or injured. He played 17 games back in 08-09, and had 13 goals. He may not reach 13 goals this year, and he's already played twice as many games. He may not reach the 12 goals in 47 games he had in 2013, the 12 goals in 54 games he had last year, or the 11 goals in 41 games he had in 13-14. Martinez, looking at a career year in points. On the other hand, over the summer Muzzin was replaced by whatever life form was in an alien pod.

That's the difference between teams. The top teams have more guys having career years, or at least career average seasons, than down years. Through 56 games on the Kings, any career year seems to be canceled out by a career worst season. So it's probably a coincidence, but the Kings are about average in the league, conference, and divisions standings this year.

 

[KINGS17]

Here's where their record stands now when it comes to scoring a goal (or less), two goals, or three or more goals...

1 GF or less: 2-16-0

2 GF: 2-4-3

3+ GF: 24-4-1

Kings have been shutout seven times already this season. Seems like getting to three goals at the very least is what they need to accomplish, and they've been involved in 27 games where they are held to two or less goals.

That's just not good enough to win you games.

It's still a 3-2 league, or in the Kings case when they are on the losing side of the scoreboard it's a 3-1, or 3-0 league.

 

[KINGS17]

Don't forget whatever it is that happened to Muzzin this year too.



Of course. Budaj is having a career year this year, and his numbers are at about Quick's career average.

Budaj is having a career best season, but Zatkoff is having a career worst season, and of course Quick has been hurt more than ever. Carter might not match his career best season, but he's on pace to come close. On the other hand, Kopitar will almost certainly not reach his full season career low of 16 goals this year, and may struggle to reach even the 10 goals he had in the lockout shortened season. Pearson, already a career high in goals and goals per game, and should establish a career high in points soon. On the other hand, Gaborik might finish with a career low in goals, in relation to any year of his career, whether healthy or injured. He played 17 games back in 08-09, and had 13 goals. He may not reach 13 goals this year, and he's already played twice as many games. He may not reach the 12 goals in 47 games he had in 2013, the 12 goals in 54 games he had last year, or the 11 goals in 41 games he had in 13-14. Martinez, looking at a career year in points. On the other hand, over the summer Muzzin was replaced by whatever life form was in an alien pod.

That's the difference between teams. The top teams have more guys having career years, or at least career average seasons, than down years. Through 56 games on the Kings, any career year seems to be canceled out by a career worst season. So it's probably a coincidence, but the Kings are about average in the league, conference, and divisions standings this year.

Here's the moral of the story so people don't think I am just picking on Kopitar. When people say if Lombardi wouldn't have paid him that some other GM would have given it to him, let some other GM give it to him.

 

[damacles1156]

I wouldn't have resigned Gabo at all. Would have let him walk after the Cup win.

 

[damacles1156]

I think people are making too much out of Gabo, I think Kopitar actually for once raised his game.

Gabo has that one shot kill ability like Carter, but other parts of his game are nonexistent. He is either scoring or invisible, he helped the PP more than anything.

Carter,Kopitar,Doughty,Quick, are the driving force of the team, and thankfully. They are locked up long term.

Gabo scored some big goals, but he didn't drive this team to another Cup. He helped, but you don't pay the help like Kopitar/Doughty.

For all everyone's talk about Richards bad contract, certain folks want Lombardi to turn around and dish out another bad contract.....NOPE

We need to stop acting like Gabo did all of this on his own, Kopitar did what he does, and Gabo did what he is suppose to do.

That doesn't warrant handing Gabo what ever he wants, he signs on the Kings terms or you let him walk.

That's why Richards/Williams have nothing to do with this, they are signed. The only person stopping Gabo from being signed with Kings , is Gabo and is Agent's demands (whatever they may be).

What I Posted after the Cup run. I was pleased with Lombardi at least getting that cap hit down.

But 7 years.....Should have never signed that contract, should have let Gabo walk.

 

[CowMix]

What I Posted after the Cup run. I was pleased with Lombardi at least getting that cap hit down.

But 7 years.....Should have never signed that contract, should have let Gabo walk.

In hindsight: Let Gaborik walk, buyout Richards, not resign Greene, resign Mitchell and Williams

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Here's the moral of the story so people don't think I am just picking on Kopitar. When people say if Lombardi wouldn't have paid him that some other GM would have given it to him, let some other GM give it to him.

I don't think at all Gaborik is like Kopitar so I have to disagree on the specific case but I DO agree with the general idea.

 

[LAKings88]

I advocated to get Gaborik for years.

Gabby looked good after the trade and into the playoffs.

The biggest issue with cap era contracts is term. Long term to reduce cap hit.

Doesn't help that the cap is now static.

DL did these contracts to keep these guys together.

Gabby was probably a bit old to get the contract he did.

Was a one time prolific scorer. Just isn't anymore.