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2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part III

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interview with Ben Bishop, speaking to his transition to a King

http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/...table-new-team-having-first-la-moment-ferrell


Ben sees the urgency, I guess we haven't caught up yet...

ESPN.com: Maybe it's a little different for goalies, but in terms of fitting in and finding that playing rhythm, do you get a sense of the urgency from the Kings?


Bishop: You can feel the urgency. It's a real veteran team in L.A., so there are a lot of guys who have been around and done a lot of winning. Tampa was a younger team. Coming here, with a lot of veterans, there's a sense of urgency -- but at the same time a confidence that they can get it done no matter what the circumstances are. It's different. You've got to learn. When you play with the same guys for so long, you know everybody's tendencies. Obviously, coming into a new 'D' corps and new forwards, they're trying to feel you out and you're trying to feel them out, to see how they play.

So there's definitely a transition, as far as what the defensemen do in certain situations and what the forwards do. For a goalie, there's probably more to it than you think -- reading off the 'D' and how they play the one-on-ones and different things like that.
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I think we may be overthinking Vegas. Remember, they have to do this with 30 other teams as well. I doubt they're going to overcomplicate things when they could get better elsewhere.

Herby said:
Tough to say what's going through a guys mind, lots of variables. There are certainly some guys like Ryan Smyth and Alexei Yashin who would play in Pyongyang if they offered the highest salary.

But for others there are a lot of factors. Some guys met their wives in the towns they played in and the Mrs. isn't crazy about moving from Chicago to Edmonton or from LA to Buffalo for a 10% raise. Some guys could be older, have earned a ton in their careers and may be cup chasing and signing for less money and/or term or others could be the opposite, a guy like Eaves who has been a pretty average player discovers a career year at 32, suddenly those final 3 years mentoring kids in Phoenix, Vegas or Colorado doesn't seem so bad.

But you also have to be careful when you assume guys may be loyal or never leave, Taylor and that slimeball Kevin Gilmore didn't think Luc would leave a second time and lowballed him in 2001 coming off a massive year where Luc was 2nd team all NHL LW. He ended up signing with Detroit for more than the Kings offered but probably less than he could have gotten in the open market.
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:laugh: yeah, but how are the schools? ;)
 
Safe to say Vegas will target McNabb, Forbort, Dowd, and Lewis, or whatever portion of those 3-4 are left unprotected.

The fans are all hoping Vegas takes Brown or Gaborik, but I don't see that happening.
 
Still think that Vegas is going to wind up doing AEG and the Kings a favor with Gaborik.

Thanks for the fan base and the arena. We'll eat Gaborik for the next little while here. He can retire if he doesn't want to play there as well and go back home and earn money there instead...KHL even.

What would happen if Gaborik were selected and then retired? Would Vegas get another bite at the Kings apple? Can't imagine that would be fair, especially if he retired later in the Summer. Maybe a comp pick?
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Ha, I guess the tweet has since been deleted, but it was concerning next year's salary cap and that if the NHLPA opts to use the escalator, that next season's cap ceiling can be anywhere between $75.5M to $76M.
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Well, let's see if the rank and file players already under contract stupidly invoke the escalator clause again, which effectively takes money out of their own pockets and puts it into the pockets of guys signing big UFA deals in the summer.
 
KINGS17 said:
Well, let's see if the rank and file players already under contract stupidly invoke the escalator clause again, which effectively takes money out of their own pockets and puts it into the pockets of guys signing big UFA deals in the summer.
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I personally agree with Fehr that they should use it every year. Keep every bit of the money in the system. Otherwise when the Canadian dollar rebounds only one year gets all the money. This way every year shares both the money and the pain as it were.
 
There's also an extra team now that'll be looking to fill a 23-man roster, in addition to all of the openings this will result in for the rest of the league.

We'll see if this extra source of income will lead to higher hockey related revenues in 2017-18.
 
WHOneedsSOX said:
The way I understand it, if Vegas can't sign Bishop in that 2 day window making him their selection from the Kings, they'll get to select a different player instead.
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In that scenario they don't actually "select" Bishop, they have a 48 hour window prior to the draft to negotiate with him (or any other RFA and UFA) and if he signs the Kings are done. If he doesn't sign the Kings will still have someone selected from their list on draft day.

On another aspect of the draft, apparently the GM's don't want the lists published ahead of time (for obvious team chemistry reasons). All the more reason I think most teams will try to cut deals well beforehand.
 
The Kings may be one of the most difficult decisions for Vegas. Brown, Lewis, Gaborik, McNabb-an argument be made why Vegas would want them and an even stronger argument can be made why they would be crazy to select any of these guys if you've been watching Kings games this season. Lewis strikes me as a cheap, somewhat young 3rd line role player an expansion team would want more than any of the names mentioned. I don't see the Kings exposing Forbort after waiting all this time for him to develop, need some return on that investment and he's just starting to pay off.
 
In the Ben Bishop interview Dee quoted, Bishop said:

Bishop: You can feel the urgency. It's a real veteran team in L.A., so there are a lot of guys who have been around and done a lot of winning. Tampa was a younger team. Coming here, with a lot of veterans, there's a sense of urgency -- but at the same time a confidence that they can get it done no matter what the circumstances are.
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I don't think it's a case of the team not caring. They're just not good enough and it's not by much. How many one-goal games have the Kings lost just due to a couple of defensive lapses? We don't have enough horses who can make up for those lapses. This year we have just Carter and Pearson and they can't do everything themselves.

We're not getting blown out usually, but we're just this shy of getting it done. Meanwhile, Calgary is getting it done, the Blues passed us, and the Jets are breathing down our necks.
 
PJ Kings Hockey said:
In the Ben Bishop interview Dee quoted, Bishop said:



I don't think it's a case of the team not caring. They're just not good enough and it's not by much. How many one-goal games have the Kings lost just due to a couple of defensive lapses? We don't have enough horses who can make up for those lapses. This year we have just Carter and Pearson and they can't do everything themselves.

We're not getting blown out usually, but we're just this shy of getting it done. Meanwhile, Calgary is getting it done, the Blues passed us, and the Jets are breathing down our necks.
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And the Kings are an absolute bore to watch while they barely lose.

The time I've been dreading looks to finally be here: season tickets to a boring, losing team in the "new" NHL where there is seemingly no bad blood or anything violent where you could say "At least that hit and line brawl was entertaining" while walking out of the arena after another loss.

The market has spoken on the excitement this team brings: $13 tickets for tomorrow night on StubHub while the team is in the midst of a playoff "chase".
 
At some point the Core was going to get old. It was coming.

Gm's have to learn that 28-30+ year old players may fall off faster than expected.
 
damacles1156 said:
At some point the Core was going to get old. It was coming.

Gm's have to learn that 28-30+ year old players may fall off faster than expected.
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Been said numerous times, and you agree with it, but they needed to draft better.

Losing Voynov was crushing but, still, need to draft better.

Also, even while getting old, they should not have missed the playoffs and be in danger of missing them again. They aren't that old yet.
 
tsanuri said:
I personally agree with Fehr that they should use it every year. Keep every bit of the money in the system. Otherwise when the Canadian dollar rebounds only one year gets all the money. This way every year shares both the money and the pain as it were.
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The only money in the system is the actual revenue collected and it's a 50/50 split.

If you are a player with a $4M a year contract not expiring for a few years voting for the escalator takes money from your check and puts it in escrow if the revenue collected during the season does not support the cap number.

Voting for the escalator allows teams to offer UFAs a bigger contract. Who pays for that if the revenue doesn't support the artificially inflated cap? The players already under contract.

Fehr is for Fehr. He looks like he negotiated a bad deal if the cap doesn't go up every year. I'm looking forward to the next work stoppage when the owners and Bettman hand him his ass again.

The owners don't care how about the amount of the salary cap. In fact, they want it to go up. It makes a lot of "fake news" in the summer because it means more UFA signings for "big" money.

In reality the owner's labor costs are fixed at 50% of the revenue.
 
BigKing said:
Been said numerous times, and you agree with it, but they needed to draft better.

Losing Voynov was crushing but, still, need to draft better.

Also, even while getting old, they should not have missed the playoffs and be in danger of missing them again. They aren't that old yet.
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Losing Voynov hurt us much more than just losing one of the best defenseman in the NHL and our number 2. Because of Voynov leaving Dean traded Mckeown and 1st in 16 for Sekera. Had he not done this we would have got Lucic for different assets and possibly kept our 1st in 15 and drafted a highly skilled player. Instead we lost two 1st round picks and more assets in prospects who are pretty highly touted that could have also been dealt for more assets. Also imagine Voynov still on the team our defense core would be one of the best and we would be much higher in the standings .

Forbort-Doughty
Muzzin/Martinez-Voynov
Martinez-Gravel/Ladue
Ladue

We would be able to deal one of our defenseman for scoring help as well if Voynov was still on this team. I guess we'll see what happens with Clague and Ladue . I have high hopes for Clague .
 
I think the kings can squeeze everyone in. Toffoli and Pearson for $10 million takes us to a roster of 18 and a cap hit of $69,326,894. If Campbell is ready to be a back up, then that's 19 at $69,939,394.

Remaining RFAs are Mersch, Brodz, Ladue, Gravel, Shore, and Andreoff for 4 spots. I asked this question previously and the one response back had them at under $1 million. Amadio is signed for $717,500. We figure to lose someone to vegas. Probably McNabb at $1.7 million.

So around $73 million for a 23 man roster. It will be very tight but it can be done without trading anyone.

Edit: The roster and cap hit includes Greene. So depending on what happens with him - retire, LTIR, etc. that may free up as much as $2.5 million.
 
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Stimpythecat said:
I think the kings can squeeze everyone in. Toffoli and Pearson for $10 million takes us to a roster of 18 and a cap hit of $69,326,894. If Campbell is ready to be a back up, then that's 19 at $69,939,394.

Remaining RFAs are Mersch, Brodz, Ladue, Gravel, Shore, and Andreoff for 4 spots. I asked this question previously and the one response back had them at under $1 million. Amadio is signed for $717,500. We figure to lose someone to vegas. Probably McNabb at $1.7 million.

So around $73 million for a 23 man roster. It will be very tight but it can be done without trading anyone.

Edit: The roster and cap hit includes Greene. So depending on what happens with him - retire, LTIR, etc. that may free up as much as $2.5 million.
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I do not want to see this team maintain the status quo.

It's going to be pretty expensive to buy out Gaborik, but it has to be done and one of Martinez or Muzzin has to go in order to get younger, faster, and cheaper up front.

Not sure I want to see Campbell backing up Quick either.
 
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Yeah, I agree. Gaborik has to be traded, bought out, or the kings have to pay vegas to select him. Injuries crippled us though. Even average injuries or somewhat decent backup goalie and not zatkoff and we're in a playoff spot.

One thing at a time though. Get the roster signed first which is not the risk since these are $1 million players early in their careers. Signing them has to be done anyway. then see what upgrades can be made.

If that Daly report is accurate, 2-3 million cap increase so by summer 2018 we could be looking at a cap of around $76 million. Nolan and Greene come off the cap for another $3.45 million so that's potentially around $6.5 million in space. Gaborik at worst if bought out adds $3.75 million. So summer 2018 can see us with over $10 million in cap space.

I don't want to see a rash trade screw up the 2018 summer situation. If it does then Doughty is certainly gone in 2019.
 
Well, for those anxious to buy out the Gaborik contract, here the combined CAP hit for Richards and Gaborik until the summer of 2025! No thanks.

17-18 $2.7 million
18-19 $3.2 million
19-20 $4.6 million
20-21 $3.9 million
21-22 $2.1 million
22-23 $2.1 million
23-24 $2.0 million
24-25 $2.0 million
 
Seems like Dean Lombardi didn't think things through for the long run. For the short term they got all they could ask for, but man are the Kings going to be paying dearly for it for the foreseeable future.

Was it worth it? Yes. Would he make those moves again? No doubt! But would he do things differently? He should have after 2014.

That was his opportunity to free himself of Richards with no consequence, but he hung on too long. Just as he did the same with Greene. And Gaborik. May have been wiser to give him more money but on a much shorter term (say three years max).

It's been a series of poor decisions and misfortunate events since that time period. But we're here for the long haul and it's going to be interesting to see what transpires from here on forward.

If we're unhappy and unsatisfied, imagine how Dean and the rest of his staff feels. You guys remember Dean's response to Bob when he stated that the Kings had a successful season? He was having none of that and cut through the B.S. and flat out said that the way they played towards the end and in the playoffs was unacceptable and it didn't sit well with him.

Now imagine what he thinks and how he feels about this poop stain of a season.
 
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