2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part III

[KingTrouty]

Damn, Kubalik has almost twice as many points as his next teammate.
29 goals and next on the team is 16. 48 points and next on the team is 28.
Just get him under contract...is he signed there, longterm? would he sign a 2-way?
Love to see players who can create their own offense...after Carter and Pearson, that is lacking. Toffoli, when he's on, can. Kopi...not so much. Too perimeter now and slower than he used to be. Seems
that Kempe may be able to, due to his speed.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0025492017.html

Let's hope the kid's play is opening up some eyes in the org and they think twice about letting him go June 1.

He reminds me of Amadio in the way he just boomed onto our radar (for lack of a better way of putting it).

2 years ago, Amadio wasn't very well known. Same with this kid.

 

[King'sPawn]

Funny, I never saw these two play in the top six for the Kings.

Dean drafted Simmonds and Schenn, but he didn't develop them.

You're asking an awful lot of Kempe, but I will defer to damacles.

Schenn and Simmonds meet you parameters of being capable of playing in the top 6 with proper development. Pay attention.

Kempe being capable of playing with proper development in the top six is up for interpretation. Maybe not this year. Even Brodzinski fanboys think he has the ability to eventually play in the top 6.

I really wonder what you guys are arguing. I agree they need to shift their focus, but your post said "they need to be able to identify..."

They can. They have.

 

[KingTrouty]

We've drafted exceedingly well given the circumstances of several cup runs. Look at our club right now, it's littered with promising talent (granted, mainly on D, but there's some fwd talent showing, too).

Cut it out. People want to ***** and moan around here for the sake of *****ing and moaning.

 

[KingsFan7824]

With all the talk of possibly exposing McNabb to the expansion draft it is interesting to note Hudson Fasching is only 21 years of age and has 6 goals and 7 points in 22 games with the Rochester Americans this season. The Kings could use a forward with size capable of scoring 15 goals a season in the NHL in the not too distant future.

Let's rip Lombardi for the trade when Fasching does a little bit more than what he's done up to this point, in either league.

I tend to agree, but the Kings did get Kopitar with the #11 pick overall.

And Detroit got Datsyuk and Zetterberg at pick #327. The Kings lucked out with Kopitar falling that far. Could happen again, but probably not.

If you give up a player like Carter, Dean should be asking for multiple #1 picks perhaps.

Multiple 1st round picks for Carter? Who is the last player that was traded for more than one 1st rounder? Can't think of one in the cap era. I was going to say Lindros, but I guess the Kings got a couple 1st's for Gretzky. A younger Carter got dealt for two combined 1st round picks in two different deals.

If you trade Carter, he's going to a team that thinks it can win. Rebuilding teams are out. Teams just trying to get to the cap floor are out. Teams that have their own young guys to sign in the next few years could be tricky. Probably have to take a contract back to open up space. At least for a year or two.

I mean, I don't know what Carter could be traded for, but start with one 1st round pick first.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Wait wait wait--are you suggesting there's more to roster and asset management than just drafting, and making allowances for roster upgrades via those prospects?

Man, if only we could land a guy like Jeff Carter by flipping a roster player and replacing him with one of our own...or a Marian Gaborik for peanuts...

Funny, because any time this has been suggested in favor for the Kings in the past, you've basically said "doesn't count, they weren't drafted" so you could purposely ignore context and complain about picks being traded instead of what those picks turned into and the ultimate results.

When did I say that? How about you stop being an oversensitive, reactionary homer and stop living in the past?

Obtaining Gaborik didn't cost the team any drafted assets, Carter was a no-brainer, nobody is complaining about those moves. They're in the past, the same past you're living in.

What roster upgrade has Lombardi made that's stuck around? Carter. Any others? Gaborik worked out in 2014, but locking him up has turned into a major mistake.

What else do you have? Are you going to claim that I'm trolling again because I don't buy in to the same blind homerism that you do.

 

[The Tikkanen]

uick

This team only needs to make a few changes. New GM, new Coach, #1LW, lose Gaborik, a 3rd line that does more than possess the puck. The issues are Vegas and the weakest free agent class I think I've ever seen but the Kings can recover. Vegas is going to remove 2 potentially quality goalies off of NHL rosters so a focus on Quick's backup might be the most important thing but that won't be easy. How do you pitch to a backup goalie when he knows he's not gonna play very many games with Quick in front of him? Might be time to put Quick on a pitch count for the rest of his career.

 

[Omni Owl]

The Bishop trade makes less and less sense to me, Budaj would've made an aduquate backup.

 

[HookKing]

This team only needs to make a few changes. New GM, new Coach, #1LW, lose Gaborik, a 3rd line that does more than possess the puck. The issues are Vegas and the weakest free agent class I think I've ever seen but the Kings can recover. Vegas is going to remove 2 potentially quality goalies off of NHL rosters so a focus on Quick's backup might be the most important thing but that won't be easy. How do you pitch to a backup goalie when he knows he's not gonna play very many games with Quick in front of him? Might be time to put Quick on a pitch count for the rest of his career.

I think Vegas will find 1 goalie that can start and auction off the other two spots to teams that will give up picks for them to take their backup.

The best pitch to get a backup here is to point to Budaj.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

We've drafted exceedingly well given the circumstances of several cup runs. Look at our club right now, it's littered with promising talent (granted, mainly on D, but there's some fwd talent showing, too).

Cut it out. People want to ***** and moan around here for the sake of *****ing and moaning.

Welcome to the kings board been like this wayy before you and I got here and most likely will be long after either of us stay. I think its sad that it is happening but has given up trying to stop it It is what it is.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yeah guys, let's celebrate futility. Let's rejoice over the one playoff win that they've had over the last three years. Things are looking on the up and up. I'm sorry, I can't ignore such things and bury my head in the sand. The on ice product is garbage, they're not getting results from the highest paid and oldest roster in the league, and what lies ahead doesn't look so great.

That's just the reality of the current state of the team. The two Cups were worth it, but that's behind us. Lombardi has to reinvent this team or get caught behind, which is what's happened with this team since the sunmer 2014.

Maybe I missed the board guidelines that we can't be critical of this team and have to pretend that everything is great. It's more fun when we all agree on the same things and all shared a single thought, right?

We're not complaining for the sake of complaining. In fact, I've never been this down on the state of the Kings franchise since lord knows how long. It's too difficult to ignore the fact that this team may not qualify for the playoffs, but apparently that doesn't seem to be as big of a deal to some of you.

 

[KingTrouty]

This team only needs to make a few changes. New GM, new Coach, #1LW, lose Gaborik, a 3rd line that does more than possess the puck. The issues are Vegas and the weakest free agent class I think I've ever seen but the Kings can recover. Vegas is going to remove 2 potentially quality goalies off of NHL rosters so a focus on Quick's backup might be the most important thing but that won't be easy. How do you pitch to a backup goalie when he knows he's not gonna play very many games with Quick in front of him? Might be time to put Quick on a pitch count for the rest of his career.

A new GM, new coach, 1LW, lose Gabby, and a whole third line are "only a few changes?"

Come on yonder and pass what you're smoking, bruh.

Cut it out. Go punch a hole in a wall.

 

[KingTrouty]

Welcome to the kings board been like this wayy before you and I got here and most likely will be long after either of us stay. I think its sad that it is happening but has given up trying to stop it It is what it is.

Yeah, well, there's others here who aren't all tweener emo about our club, so it's fun to ridicule those that are. Whether it's been going on before yourself and I graced our glorious presence on this board is immaterial to me.

 

[kovacro]

I think Vegas will find 1 goalie that can start and auction off the other two spots to teams that will give up picks for them to take their backup.

The best pitch to get a backup here is to point to Budaj.

I honestly would not be surprised to see Vegas take 4-5 goalies. If I'm them, I grab one goalie to keep on my roster, one goalie that still does not require waivers to get sent to the AHL (Bibeau - Tor, Broissoit -EDM) and then grab a couple you can deal off.

Agree that Budaj would have been fine as a backup for next year. God help us if it's Zatkoff but if it's a limited number of appearances maybe we can get by. Hopefully Ranford can help him turn things around.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah guys, let's celebrate futility. Let's rejoice over the one playoff win that they've had over the last three years. Things are looking on the up and up. I'm sorry, I can't ignore such things and bury my head in the sand. The on ice product is garbage, they're not getting results from the highest paid and oldest roster in the league, and what lies ahead doesn't look so great.

That's just the reality of the current state of the team. The two Cups were worth it, but that's behind us. Lombardi has to reinvent this team or get caught behind, which is what's happened with this team since the sunmer 2014.

Maybe I missed the board guidelines that we can't be critical of this team and have to pretend that everything is great. It's more fun when we all agree on the same things and all shared a single thought, right?

We're not complaining for the sake of complaining. In fact, I've never been this down on the state of the Kings franchise since lord knows how long. It's too difficult to ignore the fact that this team may not qualify for the playoffs, but apparently that doesn't seem to be as big of a deal to some of you.

Again, since it's not registering with you no matter how many times I'm saying it--no one is disagreeing with that.

To the second boldfaced, by all means be critical. Be negative. Let it wreck your day if that's what floats your boat. But don't keep spitting out the same old tripe that can be literally factually disproven. There's no board guideline against being wrong repeatedly if that's what you like either, but be prepared to be blasted for it continually, because it seems like so far you're poorly equipped to handle that. But it will eventually be considered spam when you ignore responses just to say the same thing over and over.

When did I say that? How about you stop being an oversensitive, reactionary homer and stop living in the past?

Obtaining Gaborik didn't cost the team any drafted assets, Carter was a no-brainer, nobody is complaining about those moves. They're in the past, the same past you're living in.

What roster upgrade has Lombardi made that's stuck around? Carter. Any others? Gaborik worked out in 2014, but locking him up has turned into a major mistake.

What else do you have? Are you going to claim that I'm trolling again because I don't buy in to the same blind homerism that you do.

Yeah, that's your usual fallback statement, get some new material.

What else I have is i literally went over DL's entire draft history and several drafts of other teams. KP went over Tampa Bay's today. You've responded fully to neither, because you can't. it's not blind homerism, we're critically analyzing while you're being deliberately obtuse at best, willfully ignorant and inflammatory at worst. I challenged you to come up with teams that have done better just so you could get a sense of perspective, but you refuse or ignore. Today is the closest you've come to responding to any of those facts so I guess kudos for your big first step, but until you can see how we've done COMPARED to other teams, you're just shouting "blind homers" ironically because you're the one arguing with your eyes closed to context.

Edit: and you said 'nobody is complaining about those moves' yet yes you're the one *****ing about a lack of top sixers and the organization's inability to find them

What other upgrades? Are you serious? Mitchell. Regehr. Williams. Stoll. Greene. Even Penner. We rode these guys thru cups and into retirement for the most part. You do realize 5 years is an eternity in hockey right? And that DL has been around quite some time? What are these other teams that are making crazy long-term moves that you're so upset about? Panarin, who they will likely have to let go (or let someone else go in his stead)? I know, I know, 'stop living in the past,' right? Guess what--when you're *****ing about long-term moves, you have to look--wait for it--long-term.

 

[KingTrouty]

Again, since it's not registering with you no matter how many times I'm saying it--no one is disagreeing with that.

To the second boldfaced, by all means be critical. Be negative. Let it wreck your day if that's what floats your boat. But don't keep spitting out the same old tripe that can be literally factually disproven. There's no board guideline against being wrong repeatedly if that's what you like either, but be prepared to be blasted for it continually, because it seems like so far you're poorly equipped to handle that. But it will eventually be considered spam when you ignore responses just to say the same thing over and over.



Yeah, that's your usual fallback statement, get some new material.

What else I have is i literally went over DL's entire draft history and several drafts of other teams. KP went over Tampa Bay's today. You've responded fully to neither, because you can't. it's not blind homerism, we're critically analyzing while you're being deliberately obtuse at best, willfully ignorant and inflammatory at worst. I challenged you to come up with teams that have done better just so you could get a sense of perspective, but you refuse or ignore. Today is the closest you've come to responding to any of those facts so I guess kudos for your big first step, but until you can see how we've done COMPARED to other teams, you're just shouting "blind homers" ironically because you're the one arguing with your eyes closed to context.

Edit: and you said 'nobody is complaining about those moves' yet yes you're the one *****ing about a lack of top sixers and the organization's inability to find them

Get em, Rocky!

I'm used to you having to defend our guys on the main board (remember those epic Karlsson vs Doty threads? ), but it's pretty sad seeing half this board so finicky and short-sighted, and gung-ho on trying to be right, even when they're wrong.

Ziggy, no one here is a ****ing "homer." Be a little more realistic and grounded, brother.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oh look, Racoon Jesus doing the exact things he's accusing others of doing. You're ignoring all of the examples as well pal. You keep burying your head in the sand when all of those blown second round picks are brought up or when I list other clubs like the Pens and Hawks and make up a scenario that Panarin will have to be traded.

Last I saw, the Hawks haven't had to struggle to make the playoffs and won more Cups. The Penguins haven't slowed down. Two teams that have benefitted from change. But when these examples are brought up, you choose to ignore them or make some crap up about the Kings doing just as well.

Some of you homers can't even admit that this is a boring team with little cohesion. That must grind your teeth.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Is three years of failure really being short sighted? Is having the oldest and most expensive team in the league working out for this team? Or is Racoon Jesus going to do what he's accusing me of doing and ignore those facts as well?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Oh look, Racoon Jesus doing the exact things he's accusing others of doing. You're ignoring all of the examples as well pal. You keep burying your head in the sand when all of those blown second round picks are brought up or when I list other clubs like the Pens and Hawks and make up a scenario that Panarin will have to be traded.

Last I saw, the Hawks haven't had to struggle to make the playoffs and won more Cups. The Penguins haven't slowed down. Two teams that have benefitted from change. But when these examples are brought up, you choose to ignore them or make some crap up about the Kings doing just as well.

Some of you homers can't even admit that this is a boring team with little cohesion. That must grind your teeth.

The Hawks are literally the only team with more success in the same time frame. I give them full credit for that; however, I broke down in a post how you were wrong about the differences between the organizations when I showed you that Forbort had more points than any of their youth not named Hartman. And you're forgetting they lost a GM after their first Cup because he didn't know how to work a ****ing fax machine--it wasn't genius to begin with, it was forced reinvention.

The Pens haven't slowed down? Did you stop watching hockey between their first Cup and ours?

I can be realistic about our organization too. I'm not pretending everything is hunky dory like you want to suggest; I'm just not willing to revise history and throw out context just so I can be negative to everyone.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Is three years of failure really being short sighted? Is having the oldest and most expensive team in the league working out for this team? Or is Racoon Jesus going to do what he's accusing me of doing and ignore those facts as well?

Two so far, don't count your chickens

but believe me, that's not lost on me like you keep insinuating--all I'm saying is it's not because of poor drafting like you keep suggesting. A whole lot of things have gone wrong to deplete us of assets but poor drafting isn't one of them.

 

[Winger23]

Two so far, don't count your chickens

but believe me, that's not lost on me like you keep insinuating--all I'm saying is it's not because of poor drafting like you keep suggesting. A whole lot of things have gone wrong to deplete us of assets but poor drafting isn't one of them.

It comes down to the vets on this team playing like dog ****, and getting paid as if they are producing. It's telling when the 2nd line winger Pearson has more goals than the so called first line combined.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The Hawks are literally the only team with more success in the same time frame. I give them full credit for that; however, I broke down in a post how you were wrong about the differences between the organizations when I showed you that Forbort had more points than any of their youth not named Hartman. And you're forgetting they lost a GM after their first Cup because he didn't know how to work a ****ing fax machine--it wasn't genius to begin with, it was forced reinvention.

The Pens haven't slowed down? Did you stop watching hockey between their first Cup and ours?

I can be realistic about our organization too. I'm not pretending everything is hunky dory like you want to suggest; I'm just not willing to revise history and throw out context just so I can be negative to everyone.

I used the Pens and their recent success as an example of change being a good thing that put them right back on the road to success. New GM, new coach, new rookie goalie and rookie forwards like Rust and Sheary, and they became the best team in the league.

The Hawks have had to make numerous changes to their roster, they haven't avoided it like Lombardi has.

 

[kings11]

So what exactly am I, as a diehard Kings fans like you guys missing in regards to the direction of this team??? Maybe I'm being foolish but we need to remake our D after Willie and Robyn left and VV was booted.. and what has DL done??? He's brought in 3 rookie Dmen who have looked really good in a small sample size for LaDue and Gravel while the 3rd has outplayed our 2nd and 3rd defensemen! Granted the biggest problem we have is the offense or lack thereof, we have kids who offer great potential but are unproven and inexperienced like Amadio, Kempe, Mersch, Brodz and Kubalik... I know injuries happen but we have been hit harder than most to our top 6 and are still literally in the playoffs if they started today.
Some are saying let's trade Carter and rebuild or dump Kopitar because of a down year but these idiots fail to see that this team is literally being rebuilt on the fly and have managed to remain in he playoff hunt.. also for those questioning whether Kopitar is still hurt ??? No one knows but the team but I won't be one of those that questions our captains heart to play through the pain because he does exactly that!!
So while it's a fans duty to critique this team when it does bad, no one and I mean no one here know more than Dean about what this team needs!

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It comes down to the vets on this team playing like dog ****, and getting paid as if they are producing. It's telling when the 2nd line winger Pearson has more goals than the so called first line combined.

100% agree.

I used the Pens and their recent success as an example of change being a good thing that put them right back on the road to success. New GM, new coach, new rookie goalie and rookie forwards like Rust and Sheary, and they became the best team in the league.

The Hawks have had to make numerous changes to their roster, they haven't avoided it like Lombardi has.

I agree with that 100% too. But remember the Pens had to fully reinvent themselves too; theoretically, we could be in the same boat now as they were back in like 2011 or so. This didn't happen on the fly quickly is my point there. And they went through a couple of GMs and coaches through all of it yet their core is still there so while we don't have Crosby I DO think there are more similarities there than maybe we give credit for (and though we don't have Crosby/Malkin I'd argue we had/have better prospects, especially on D).

No, the Hawks haven't avoided change, but remember--they wanted to keep 2010 together but couldn't because fax machines are hard. Bowman gets full marks for creativity since then s well but it's mostly been on the back of their core, not necessarily because of saavy drafting and development, which was the initial argument.

Now there are very obviously, absolutely lessons to be learned there that need to be integrated here, but those are teams we've drafted better than almost inarguably--which brings us back to square one of our argument, our drafting/development is very very good. Other things have broken down and we've paid the price of trying to keep the window open, but if we can get back to our organizational strengths, we should be fine. "Fine" obviously doesn't necessarily = contender so we'll all diverge on philosophies there, but I think we mostly agree around here on core issues/concepts.

 

[KINGS17]

Problem with any comparisons to the Pens is their 1C plays like a 1C when he is healthy.

This organization is in deep trouble if Kopitar doesn't get back to being a 70-point player. Does he have comparable chops to Sid? I don't think so.

I think Dean should have just recognized the Kings had a great three run, and it's over.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Teams can't stay at the top of the pile forever