2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part III

[Cook24]

why all the voynov talk? can we just let that die, he is not coming back and if he does it will be with a different team. LA will trade his rights but it will be for peanuts. People should not be expecting him an LA lineup and if for some reason he ever does then it would just be an added bonus

Did you not listen to the Mayors most recent podcast? Says Kings are leaning toward bringing him back. He'd probably miss time due to a suspension. Mayor has been right about a many things and doesn't just throw **** at the wall.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Did you not listen to the Mayors most recent podcast? Says Kings are leaning toward bringing him back. He'd probably miss time due to a suspension. Mayor has been right about a many things and doesn't just throw **** at the wall.

The question then would be who will be the GM to make that decision? It certainly does not look like it will be Dean Lombardi's call at this point. Will Blake or Futa or whoever the GM is want Voynov?

 

[HookKing]

Why would you be worried about losing Lewis or Dowd?

Its all relative. Lewis has way more value to the team than McNabb. Dowd is still cheap and to replace him is going to cost. Not to mention centers are hard to come by and our pipeline is thin.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Moved several posts re: drafting from last night's Kubalik thread to this one. Feel free to continue as needed.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Lies. Nobody has done such a thing. You guys just make excuses for their inability to load the team up with talent. I'm not moving goal posts. There's barely anything in Ontario or in juniors that falls into that category. It's like the era of Yanick Lehoux and Jared Aulin being considered top prospects.

There are two examples right below you and many more across the board.

I can't do your reading for you.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There are two examples right below you and many more across the board.

I can't do your reading for you.

And the list provided proved exactly what I stated, four top six forwards drafted in 11 drafts and 82 draft selections.

I bet that if Lombardi and this staff was in charge in 2005, they would've passed over Kopitar in favor of Marc Staal.

I'm not talking about a team drafting stiffs like Clifford or Andreoff, it doesn't take a special ability to identify fourth line plugs or healthy scratches. That's like praising the Kings for drafting Matt Johnson in the 2nd round. Big ****ing deal.

I give credit for them finding guys like Nolan and LaDue in later rounds, but burning and wasting away early draft selections is pretty much throwing away assets.

Nobody is going to lose sleep if a fourth or later round pick doesn't work out, but not when you have so many goddamn misses in the second round, especially when that's been their earliest selection for quite a few drafts.

My point still holds true, these scouts cannot identify top six talent. Year after year this team needs to find wingers to play in the top six. When Penner left and Brown declined, Toffoli and Pearson stepped in. Now that Gaborik is declining and Williams then Lucic left, the Kings promoted Dwight King. The jury is still out on Kempe as we don't know what the finished product will be with him, but this organization has a tendency of not being able to identify and produce talent that is capable of producing.

Just look at the struggles in Ontario. Their strength is their defense, not their offense. And most of the forwards are composed of journeymen like Purcell, Setoguchi, Hensick, Sutter, Backman, Bisssonette, Crescenzi, etc. After Kempe, Brodzinski has a chance.

I don't see Mersch being a top six option if he makes it. Too soon to judge Amadio but I'd be pleasantly surprised if he became anything more than a 3rd line C. I figure he'll be replacing Dowd in the not so distant future.

So, with all that said, what is it that this team and the pipeline seems to be missing most? Goaltending? Yes. Defense? No. Offense? God yes.

You're being dishonest and disingenuous if you suggest that they're doing just fine in finding top six talent. They're not showing results, and there have been very few options. They traded two of them to get Mike Richards (a trade I'm fine with) and have only developed and brought along two of them in Toffoli and Pearson.

I'm not making this **** up. So tell me, what the **** is your argument? That they're great at finding dime a dozen forwards that every team in the league is also capable of doing?

 

[KINGS17]

The Kings seem to be much better at drafting and developing defensemen.

When it comes to forwards, it's time to change the basic strategy, because whatever they are doing, isn't working. The Kings should be able to find a kid, say every other draft, capable of being in the top six with proper development.

They should start by looking for a future #1 center. Some have suggested it may be time to shop Carter in the off season to find this type of player.

Also, need to develop a #1 goaltender in the near future.

 

[KingTrouty]

The question then would be who will be the GM to make that decision? It certainly does not look like it will be Dean Lombardi's call at this point. Will Blake or Futa or whoever the GM is want Voynov?

Where have you seen any indication Dean won't be back next year? Oh, HFBoards...

 

[KingTrouty]

The question then would be who will be the GM to make that decision? It certainly does not look like it will be Dean Lombardi's call at this point. Will Blake or Futa or whoever the GM is want Voynov?

Disgusting.

I had 5cc's of pus taken out of my back last night. I'd gladly drink that over having Rob ****ing Blake as our next GM.

 

[Fishhead]

The Kings have done a really good job of taking their time with defense and developing them but the downside is that they are older when they break in. I see what DL is doing with Gravel/Forbort/Ladue, they are 3 guys around the same age who hopefully peak around the same time. Thing is they will all be 25 by the time next season starts.

If DL thinks they can form a cup winning core with Doughty, then his best bet is to move Martinez and Muzzin now to try and get some offensive help in the 24-26 age group. If he can generate a couple mid 20's top 6 types, either through trades or the system, then you have them plus Pearson and TT, along with an older Carter and Kopitar. By then Doughty, Forbort, Gravel, and Ladue will be in their prime. Amadio, Dowd, and Shore could end up a good core for the bottom 6. Grab a couple vets for Defense and there you go.

I would be hesitant to trade Martinez or Muzzin, but if the right deal came along, I'd absolutely do it and target 3 or so years out for another run.

 

[King'sPawn]

I'm not making this **** up. So tell me, what the **** is your argument? That they're great at finding dime a dozen forwards that every team in the league is also capable of doing?

If it's so easy, why do the Kings have a higher quantity of NHL players in the league? Why isn't everyone doing it?

 

[KingsFan7824]

They should start by looking for a future #1 center. Some have suggested it may be time to shop Carter in the off season to find this type of player.

They're not going to trade for one. Trade Carter in order to fall in the standings to get a higher pick, fine, but any team with a potential future #1 center isn't giving that guy up. Either the other team isn't good enough right now to take advantage of a 32/33 year old forward, or not picking high enough to trade a high pick.

 

[KINGS17]

With all the talk of possibly exposing McNabb to the expansion draft it is interesting to note Hudson Fasching is only 21 years of age and has 6 goals and 7 points in 22 games with the Rochester Americans this season. The Kings could use a forward with size capable of scoring 15 goals a season in the NHL in the not too distant future.

 

[KINGS17]

They're not going to trade for one. Trade Carter in order to fall in the standings to get a higher pick, fine, but any team with a potential future #1 center isn't giving that guy up. Either the other team isn't good enough right now to take advantage of a 32/33 year old forward, or not picking high enough to trade a high pick.

I tend to agree, but the Kings did get Kopitar with the #11 pick overall.

If you give up a player like Carter, Dean should be asking for multiple #1 picks perhaps.

 

[King'sPawn]

The Kings seem to be much better at drafting and developing defensemen.

When it comes to forwards, it's time to change the basic strategy, because whatever they are doing, isn't working. The Kings should be able to find a kid, say every other draft, capable of being in the top six with proper development.

2007 Simmonds
2009 Schenn
2010 Toffoli
2012 Pearson
2014 Kempe?

Too early to tell with the more recent years, although it's not looking good about landing a top 6 forward... but considering Dean traded away their first round picks the past two years and took defensemen with the second round picks, the first forwards they grab are major longshots to begin with.

But that's just me and my excuses.

 

[CowMix]

I hear about the Kings not drafting well in recent years but I would imagine if you look at the rest of the league with the draft picks the Kings had available (not traded away) they did very well in recent drafts compared to other teams. Just looking at the team now there is a lot of promising rookies that we drafted.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm not making this **** up. So tell me, what the **** is your argument? That they're great at finding dime a dozen forwards that every team in the league is also capable of doing?

What I'm saying is since the Kings drafting is so ******, I'm challenging YOU to find a team that is not a lottery team that is doing a better job. If you can come up with 5, I'll lay off you. If not, stop ****ing *****ing about the Kings' drafting and development because that's what got us to the top of the mountain in the first place.

No one disagrees with you that we need to refocus on that, not even DL, according to his words and actions; what I take issue with is your sweeping statements about a lack of eye for talent and crap drafting when the exact opposite is FACTUALLY TRUE. It's borderline trolling at this point since you've been given continual counterpoints; I'm giving you a chance to prove me and the others who keep showing you otherwise wrong.

Show me a team that has their entire top six made of homegrown picks and I'll show you a repeated lottery team that might finally break the playoff barrier.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

dunno where this drafting like crap is coming from

we traded like crap the past couple of years and gave away most of our top picks, hence the quality of players we've been drafting from 3rd to 7th round are obviously of lower quality because that's the reality of the draft

1st round are where you draft star players

2nd thru 7th you get possibly 10-15 solid NHL players and that's spread over 180 picks

so calm the **** down

and the $20m contracts given to Gaborik, Brown, and Kopitar pretty much handicapped us from making any significant moves through trade or free agency

which is why we signed ****** players like Gilbert, Purcell, Setoguchi, Zatkoff, etc

that's the reality of it all, and nothing more

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If it's so easy, why do the Kings have a higher quantity of NHL players in the league? Why isn't everyone doing it?

The Sharks have had drafted and developed 10 forwards in their lineup this season. The Blackhawks have 9. The Penguins have 8. The Ducks have 7. The Capitals have 8. The Rangers have 6.

Bottom six forwards aren't exactly a rare commodity to come by. The Kings drafted forwards include Kopitar, Brown, Toffoli, Pearson, Lewis, Shore, Dowd, Clifford, Kempe and Nolan. Just as many as San Jose, one more than Chicago, two more than Pittsburgh.

And they've flipped some of their own drafted players to get something of value back, like Jordan Staal turning into Sutter and eventually landing them Bonino, or the Hawks turning Saad into Anisimov and Morin into Panik. Good drafting netted good returns, and not just rentals.

Like I said before, is drafting a player like Matt Johnson or Scott Parker in the first two rounds something to boast about? How many free agent forward prospects has this scouting staff discovered and the development team developed?

At least Taylor's regime was able to identify Kopitar, Brown, Frolov, Cammalleri, Jokinen, Boyle, Belanger, Parros... I just really disliked his inaction st the draft table. Guess learning under McMaster didn't prep him for that. Taylor's North American scouts were horrendous in drafting defensemen, their best dmen were all European selections: Visnovsky, Kaberle, Lilja. The only North American dman they ever drafted to become a player was Corvo.

Their goalie selections were all awful as well until Quick came around and Huet was a good find as well, that's it. They were better at finding top six forwards than this current group. This group is far better when it comes to finding defensemen and role players.

The only noteworthy goaltender that they deserve credit for is Martin Jones. If you want to lump Bernier in there that's fine, but he never lived up to expectations as a starting goalie, but at least he's a backup goalie.

The Shores, Cliffords, Andreoffs and Nolans of the league are a dime a dozen. They are fine discoveries in later rounds, but they're nothing to boast about. I just think of all the blown second round selections that have ultimately resulted into nothing. They're wasted picks that ended up being moved for temporary patches in an attempt to stop the bleeding.

And I'm not suggesting I'd do a better job, I want those in charge to do a better job, and I'm sure they'll tell you the same thing.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

2007 Simmonds
2009 Schenn
2010 Toffoli
2012 Pearson
2014 Kempe?

Too early to tell with the more recent years, although it's not looking good about landing a top 6 forward... but considering Dean traded away their first round picks the past two years and took defensemen with the second round picks, the first forwards they grab are major longshots to begin with.

But that's just me and my excuses.

Or it's the team not drafting we'll like I've been suggesting? How many of those second round dmen (or the goalie, Gibson) have panned out? Lintuniemi is a long shot. Clague has the best potential. After Toffoli, their only other second round selection to make any impact was Voynov, and he went early with the 32nd pick.

After Toffoli in 2010, their second round selections have been Gibson, Zykov, McKeown, Lintuniemi, Cernak and Clague.

Four of those are no longer in the organization, one is in juniors, the other is an average minor league dman as of today.

That's just stellar.

 

[head eyes]

Would like to see Brodzinski get the call up. With 4 days off it would give him time to get situated with his linemates. Would like to see:

Kempe-Kopi-Brodz
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Brown-Dowd-Lewis
Iginla-Andreoff-Clifford

Wouldn't mind seeing Carter on Kopi's wing and Kempe centering Pearson and Toffoli either.

 

[KINGS17]

2007 Simmonds
2009 Schenn
2010 Toffoli
2012 Pearson
2014 Kempe?

Too early to tell with the more recent years, although it's not looking good about landing a top 6 forward... but considering Dean traded away their first round picks the past two years and took defensemen with the second round picks, the first forwards they grab are major longshots to begin with.

But that's just me and my excuses.

Funny, I never saw these two play in the top six for the Kings.

Dean drafted Simmonds and Schenn, but he didn't develop them.

You're asking an awful lot of Kempe, but I will defer to damacles.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

Would like to see Brodzinski get the call up. With 4 days off it would give him time to get situated with his linemates. Would like to see:

Kempe-Kopi-Brodz
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Brown-Dowd-Lewis
Iginla-Andreoff-Clifford

Wouldn't mind seeing Carter on Kopi's wing and Kempe centering Pearson and Toffoli either.

We're going to have to wait on that one.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Sharks have had drafted and developed 10 forwards in their lineup this season. The Blackhawks have 9. The Penguins have 8. The Ducks have 7. The Capitals have 8. The Rangers have 6.

Bottom six forwards aren't exactly a rare commodity to come by. The Kings drafted forwards include Kopitar, Brown, Toffoli, Pearson, Lewis, Shore, Dowd, Clifford, Kempe and Nolan. Just as many as San Jose, one more than Chicago, two more than Pittsburgh.

And they've flipped some of their own drafted players to get something of value back, like Jordan Staal turning into Sutter and eventually landing them Bonino, or the Hawks turning Saad into Anisimov and Morin into Panik. Good drafting netted good returns, and not just rentals.

Like I said before, is drafting a player like Matt Johnson or Scott Parker in the first two rounds something to boast about? How many free agent forward prospects has this scouting staff discovered and the development team developed?

At least Taylor's regime was able to identify Kopitar, Brown, Frolov, Cammalleri, Jokinen, Boyle, Belanger, Parros... I just really disliked his inaction st the draft table. Guess learning under McMaster didn't prep him for that. Taylor's North American scouts were horrendous in drafting defensemen, their best dmen were all European selections: Visnovsky, Kaberle, Lilja. The only North American dman they ever drafted to become a player was Corvo.

Their goalie selections were all awful as well until Quick came around and Huet was a good find as well, that's it. They were better at finding top six forwards than this current group. This group is far better when it comes to finding defensemen and role players.

The only noteworthy goaltender that they deserve credit for is Martin Jones. If you want to lump Bernier in there that's fine, but he never lived up to expectations as a starting goalie, but at least he's a backup goalie.

The Shores, Cliffords, Andreoffs and Nolans of the league are a dime a dozen. They are fine discoveries in later rounds, but they're nothing to boast about. I just think of all the blown second round selections that have ultimately resulted into nothing. They're wasted picks that ended up being moved for temporary patches in an attempt to stop the bleeding.

And I'm not suggesting I'd do a better job, I want those in charge to do a better job, and I'm sure they'll tell you the same thing.

Wait wait wait--are you suggesting there's more to roster and asset management than just drafting, and making allowances for roster upgrades via those prospects?

Man, if only we could land a guy like Jeff Carter by flipping a roster player and replacing him with one of our own...or a Marian Gaborik for peanuts...

Funny, because any time this has been suggested in favor for the Kings in the past, you've basically said "doesn't count, they weren't drafted" so you could purposely ignore context and complain about picks being traded instead of what those picks turned into and the ultimate results.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Moved several posts re: drafting from last night's Kubalik thread to this one. Feel free to continue as needed.

Damn, Kubalik has almost twice as many points as his next teammate.
29 goals and next on the team is 16. 48 points and next on the team is 28.
Just get him under contract...is he signed there, longterm? would he sign a 2-way?
Love to see players who can create their own offense...after Carter and Pearson, that is lacking. Toffoli, when he's on, can. Kopi...not so much. Too perimeter now and slower than he used to be. Seems
that Kempe may be able to, due to his speed.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0025492017.html