Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part IV | Contract chart, cap info in post #1

[Zen Arcade]

Benning's supposedly blowing up the Canucks. Hansen is sort of a cross between Hagelin and Harry Zetuhp;giugng. Not as good as Hags, not as stupid as scrabblename, but still sort of fits what we're doing.

Though to be honest, I'm not sold we even need anybody at forward short of a Cullen replacement if he were to retire. And even then, Oskar might be able to do the job.

I've wanted Hansen here for years, I love the way he plays.

Congrats on the Cup Final guys!

A bit random, but could someone give me a quick scouting report on Ben Lovejoy?

He's pretty much your bog standard #6 defenseman, jack of all trades, master of none. You could do worse than him on your third pairing but he's going to get overpaid by someone based on his "intangibles" and his advanced stats that were inflated by being carried by Dumoulin for most of the year.

I will agree with Jacob though, he had a strong series. He and Kunitz both stepped up their games big time, so hopefully that's a sign of things to come.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Benning's supposedly blowing up the Canucks. Hansen is sort of a cross between Hagelin and Harry Zetuhp;giugng. Not as good as Hags, not as stupid as scrabblename, but still sort of fits what we're doing.

Though to be honest, I'm not sold we even need anybody at forward short of a Cullen replacement if he were to retire. And even then, Oskar might be able to do the job.

Speaking of Benning, that Sutter trade is looking so lopsided right about now. Could you imagine if we still had Sutter instead of Bonino? Kessel and Hagelin would demand a trade having to play with a guy who has no concept of having two linemates he can actually pass to.

 

[Coach Travis]

Congrats on the Cup Final guys!

A bit random, but could someone give me a quick scouting report on Ben Lovejoy?

He's a solid 3rd pairing RD that'll cost probably a tad over $1M per season. I'm hoping the Pens re-sign him.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I think Lovejoy is in for a payday with over 2m maybe even 2.5m.

 

[mpp9]

Caps will probably sign him. Watch.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Caps will probably sign him. Watch.

That would be something they'd do.

I could see them trying to get Schultz too.

 

[66-30-33]

That would be something they'd do.

I could see them trying to get Schultz too.

Let's trade Cole to them aswell.

 

[Tender Rip]

I don't see the need for a forward that isn't a legit top-6 LW.

This.

XXX - Crosby - Hornqvist
XXX - Malkin - Sprong
Hagelin - Bonino - Kessel
Kuhnhackl - Cullen - Sundqvist

Wilson, Rust, Sheary fight for the extra spots / 13th forward, and then I probably bring in one legit top-6 winger if possible.

Kunitz gets moved and I probably try to move Fehr as well

Dumoulin - Letang
Maatta - XXX
XXX - Schultz

Pouliot, Daley, Cole up assets / players depending on how they heal / perform, but I'd be looking to make a trade for a legit top-4 D

I am almost entirely with you.
But I have to say that Rust is a given in the line-up next year. Never mind that his scoring heroics in the playoffs is not likely to be sustainable, his speed, tenacity and discipline is the direct on-ice extension of what Sullivan preaches. Him and Hags bring that identity more than anyone. With how it is working with Geno right now, I think you continue that, also because it is nice having someone with Geno who gives non-stop effort both ways. If Malkin makes it work with Rust and Sprong, there is money for a real upgrade for Sid.

I also consider it a given that Daley has a role and whereas I am fine with others getting chances over Cole, I think Cole is a regular on this team when its important. He is a third pairing D-man who kills penalties and plays hard. He has been EXCELLENT in the playoffs for his role and cap-hit. Underappreciated, IMO.

As regards the D in general, if we get to re-sign Schultz, I think we have all we need for the starting lineup. Hope we can add some quality prospects for depth and long term Daley replacement.

 

[mpp9]

Sprong's got a ways to go to fit what Sullivan is all about. Backchecking and defensive posture are big parts of why this team has been as successful as it's been.

From what I understand, Sprong got benched for quite a bit of the WBS playoffs because he was making questionable decisions. He probably gets 4th line minutes next season if he sticks around, which is why I want another proven option in the top 6. Rust isn't really cut out for a scoring line role over an 82 game season.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Let's trade Cole to them aswell.

Just because Degen's a mod now doesn't mean we can go trading our other mods all willy nilly.

 

[mpp9]

I've wanted Hansen here for years, I love the way he plays.

He and Frolik are guys I hope we target. Speed, complementary style, good in all three zones and are still in their prime and signed.

Hansen at 2.5 mil for another 2 years would be awesome. You can let him walk after if/when the younger guys develop. Frolik has a larger contract, but he's only 28 and is as versatile as they come (as is Hansen). I remember reading an article last summer over the draft weekend where management was said to have had alot of interest in him as a stopgap in our top 6 who could move down the lineup as he ages.

 

[Tender Rip]

IMO there is absolutely no point to adding guys like Hansen and Frolik, never mind that they are unquestionably good players who fit this teams identity.

Reason is simple. What they bring is largely what we are getting from the young, cheap kids we have been blessed to see emerge this season... and Hagelin of course.

We have plenty of depth. What remains is to make sure Sid and Geno can go out there without anybody on their line being an actual impediment. Malkin with Rust and Kunitz works now both because Geno is playing very good D, but also for the reason that they're not that often played against opponents best. Sid on the other hand is, and he is a minus player for these playoffs with Horny having a team worst -5. Imagine if there was a left wing there to make every other team's top line have to settle for trying to minimize the damage rather then this being Sid's lot.

 

[mpp9]

IMO there is absolutely no point to adding guys like Hansen and Frolik, never mind that they are unquestionably good players who fit this teams identity.

Reason is simple. What they bring is largely what we are getting from the young, cheap kids we have been blessed to see emerge this season... and Hagelin of course.

We have plenty of depth. What remains is to make sure Sid and Geno can go out there without anybody on their line being an actual impediment. Malkin with Rust and Kunitz works now both because Geno is playing very good D, but also for the reason that they're not that often played against opponents best. Sid on the other hand is, and he is a minus player for these playoffs with Horny having a team worst -5. Imagine if there was a left wing there to make every other team's top line have to settle for trying to minimize the damage rather then this being Sid's lot.

Hansen had 20 ES goals this year. Frolik's good for 15-20 at ES every year and 40 points.

Wilson, Sheary, Rust and Kuhn would be lucky to hit those numbers next year.

I'm all for trying to find a stud LWer for Sid, but unless you think MAF+DP gets you that player, I'm more than fine adding more of the type of player this team is thriving with. Specifically, I'd like to add players with more of a proven scoring line complementary style.

Sid's line looks fine to me when Sheary is playing competently. Same with Malkin's. We've got three elite offensive players. I'm cool with finding guys who will allow them to play their styles of game.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I just realized that if the Penguins trade Kunitz and Fleury, they would have $14 million in cap space.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I wouldn't mind Fehr's money paying a guy like Hansen.

 

[Riptide]

I don't get this idea that maf will land a stud. We've spent the last two weeks saying he can't get it done in the playoffs and the team was responsible for his wins, yet we want a team to gut their top four for him?

We were never going to get a top 4D for him. We might get a middle/top 6 forward. That's probably the best case scenario. Realistically, it's a young guy (Nuke?) and a pick/prospect. Potentially a cap dump coming back (Lehtonen, etc).

We all dislike Kunitz as well, but that doesn't change the fact that he has value around the league.


Looking at a slightly different direction. What about Troy Brouwer in FA? I know he's usually a RW, but think he's someone who could work with Malkin? Rotate Rust, Wilson, etc on the LW until something works.

 

[Riptide]

Speaking of Benning, that Sutter trade is looking so lopsided right about now. Could you imagine if we still had Sutter instead of Bonino? Kessel and Hagelin would demand a trade having to play with a guy who has no concept of having two linemates he can actually pass to.

We wouldn't have made it past WSH - and if somehow we did, we wouldn't have made it past TB.

 

[Riptide]

I think Lovejoy is in for a payday with over 2m maybe even 2.5m.

Think higher. At least 2.75-3.5m over 2-4 years. Way too many comparables who received 3m+ for him to take less - unless he gets a little more term to do so. And very few of those comparables were playing 20 minutes a night on a team that made the SCFs. I mean look what Kevin Miller just signed for - 4x2.5m. The guy is a 3rd pairing D. Lovejoy will get at least that - and almost certainly more.

 

[Tender Rip]

Hansen had 20 ES goals this year. Frolik's good for 15-20 at ES every year and 40 points.

Wilson, Sheary, Rust and Kuhn would be lucky to hit those numbers next year.

No kidding! They will be rookies or sophomores and cost less than 700k a piece. Frolik is at 4.3 million per, Hansen's cap-hit is a nice 2.5

I am Danish and love Jannik Hansen for what he is. But a consistent 20 goal scorer he is not and I much doubt you can find a Vancouver fan who believes that he is a top6 player.
A GREAT third liner, yes. But we have little need for that, and while JH is better than Rust for instance, the difference is not 4x the cap-hit worthy. Less so as you'd actually have to give up something of value to get JH because he IS good and has a nice contract.

Frolik was a 4th liner with special teams time at Chicago. I liked him a lot when he was cheap, but his production is quite likely a product of opportunities he does not get with a good team. And at 4.3 million per year... well, no thank you to the thought of giving up value to pay him that. Even if I concede that he COULD be very good with Geno.

I'm all for trying to find a stud LWer for Sid, but unless you think MAF+DP gets you that player, I'm more than fine adding more of the type of player this team is thriving with. Specifically, I'd like to add players with more of a proven scoring line complementary style.

See, I totally agree with this in principle and I have been arguing for it for many years. But I'm not interested in adding slightly better, mature versions of youngsters who are developing into exactly these types of players, while costing almost nothing. At least not when we simply don't know what we have with them yet. Exhibit A: Wilson. Looked good before his injury. Would like to see more before we block his path entirely.

Kids are proving good enough to provide the depth for a cup run, and if we manage to move the guys we'd pretty much all want to, we can actually make room for someone who is capable of making an individual difference AND help Sid or Geno.

Anyway - Loui Eriksson.... say 5.5 million per as a free agent. Let Horny and Hags pitch it to him.

Sid's line looks fine to me when Sheary is playing competently. Same with Malkin's. We've got three elite offensive players. I'm cool with finding guys who will allow them to play their styles of game.

Well.... agree to disagree that Sheary allows Sid to play his best game.... to me that is like saying that Kunitz brings out the best in Geno .

 

[WayneSid9987]

Yea, i see LJ easily getting a healthy raise after these playoffs.
And the Pens shouldn't pay him that raise imo.

 

[deakka]

Yea, i see LJ easily getting a healthy raise after these playoffs.
And the Pens shouldn't pay him that raise imo.

Im actually glad. If he didnt have a good run i had the feeling we might have kept him. Lets hope he prices himself out of town.

We need to give DP a chance next season. And in afraid MJ might have blocked him.

 

[#66]

IMO there is absolutely no point to adding guys like Hansen and Frolik, never mind that they are unquestionably good players who fit this teams identity.

Reason is simple. What they bring is largely what we are getting from the young, cheap kids we have been blessed to see emerge this season... and Hagelin of course.

We have plenty of depth. What remains is to make sure Sid and Geno can go out there without anybody on their line being an actual impediment. Malkin with Rust and Kunitz works now both because Geno is playing very good D, but also for the reason that they're not that often played against opponents best. Sid on the other hand is, and he is a minus player for these playoffs with Horny having a team worst -5. Imagine if there was a left wing there to make every other team's top line have to settle for trying to minimize the damage rather then this being Sid's lot.

Great post. Im big on getting Frolik to the Pens but maybe Rust and Kuhn bring whats needed to Malkins wing. Then Simon and Sprong.

The thing is the Pens are in win now mode. Go after championships at all costs.

 

[TorstenFrings]

I am almost entirely with you.
But I have to say that Rust is a given in the line-up next year. Never mind that his scoring heroics in the playoffs is not likely to be sustainable, his speed, tenacity and discipline is the direct on-ice extension of what Sullivan preaches. Him and Hags bring that identity more than anyone. With how it is working with Geno right now, I think you continue that, also because it is nice having someone with Geno who gives non-stop effort both ways. If Malkin makes it work with Rust and Sprong, there is money for a real upgrade for Sid.

At the very least, if Rust isn't given a spot in the line up, I'd expect a lot more fighting than just for two LW spots in camp. There is at this point no way Sundqvist and Sprong get handed something, that Rust will still have to fight for.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I definitely don't want them to sign a UFA defenseman. That would be wasted money (again) just like the Shero era. We currently have 8 NHL defensemen. If we lose Lovejoy (hopefully), we're down to seven. If Schultz leaves because we fail to get him to take a pay cut, we still have Bengtsson and Prow to give long looks to. And if we lose Schultz, we can replace him with a more physical guy on the cheap (which is what we need anyway).

Trade Fleury to either Calgary or Toronto for the best package of picks/prospects possible. If either team is willing to take Kunitz, take a little less. If a deal involving JVR is possible, go for it. Otherwise, target Stamkos or Lucic as UFA's.

I want another big ticket forward. We have the supporting cast locked down. Kuhnhackl, Rust, Sundqvist. These are great role players. Simon, Sprong and Guentzel. These are guys who can eventually fill a cheap role in the top 9. Sheary and Wilson. These are plug-and-play anywhere guys.

Let Cullen go. It's been a fantastic ride. But bringing him back would be Billy Guerin, 2.0. You have to give Sundqvist that spot.

Hagelin, Hornqvist, Bonino. Very solid players, all of them. But none are core players. Say we signed a Stamkos and were forced to trade a Hornqvist. OK, no problem. Say we acquired JVR. Hagelin could stay or go at that point. A guy like Guentzel or maybe Simon could replace Bonino in 2017-18.

For me, the core is Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang, Murray. That's it, that's all. As Crosby and Malkin get older, it wouldn't be a bad idea to add another piece to the core.

Our prospect pool looked God-awful in October. It looks a lot better now. But we can't really project anybody from our prospect pool to become true CORE players for the Crosby/Malkin over-30 era.

So yeah, I want to go big-game hunting again this off-season. And why not? The Phil Kessel move worked out better than ANYBODY could have expected.

I would target Stamkos, Tarasenko (I doubt there is anything to the Hitch relationship issues but you never know), JVR and Lucic. MAYBE fall-back plans would be Radulov and Yakupov/Eberle.

Let's not make the same mistake as in post-2009, when we won a Cup with guys like Talbot, Fedotenko, Guerin and Kunitz in the top six and thought we could have just about anybody in the top six and win. And that was with Sid and Geno much, much younger.

Also, we haven't won the Stanley Cup yet, either. If we don't win against San Jose, perhaps there will be even more impetus to go get Crosby and Malkin even more help. If we win, perhaps some interesting players would be more interested in playing here.

Either way, I want to go after someone big. Use the Fleury situation to full advantage.

 

[plaidchuck]

Signing stamkos is a pipe dream. Not even comparable to the kessel situation where Toronto was basically forced to trade him.