Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part IV | Contract chart, cap info in post #1

[plaidchuck]

I'd rather have Jordan Staal than Stamkos. One doesn't need a map to find the dirty areas

This as well. After watching shero strike out in free agency for years, I can't believe people want to go right back to that strategy.

 

[KIRK]

I'd rather have Jordan Staal than Stamkos. One doesn't need a map to find the dirty areas

Plus, Jordan's a true leader. He's got the intangiblz.

 

[plaidchuck]

Stamkos would basically give you a free goal every pp that's for sure.

 

[rintinw]

Are you purposely misunderstanding what he wrote?

What did I misunderstood? What I read there in addition to these posts (see below) is that:
- you are not willing to break HBK line
- you are expecting Rust (Kuhnhackl) - Malkin - Sprong (Simon) line to be a legit scoring line
- provided point number 2, you want to upgrade LW on XXX-Crosby-Hornqvist line in summer

I just pointed out that it's really optimistic to expect point number 2. Even if you replace Sprong/Rust with McGinn or Brouwer. Maybe Okposo/Eriksson may make it work but I got a feeling that they were slotted as a LW in XXX - Crosby - Hornqvist line:

But I have to say that Rust is a given in the line-up next year. Never mind that his scoring heroics in the playoffs is not likely to be sustainable, his speed, tenacity and discipline is the direct on-ice extension of what Sullivan preaches. Him and Hags bring that identity more than anyone. With how it is working with Geno right now, I think you continue that, also because it is nice having someone with Geno who gives non-stop effort both ways. If Malkin makes it work with Rust and Sprong, there is money for a real upgrade for Sid.

Great post. Im big on getting Frolik to the Pens but maybe Rust and Kuhn bring whats needed to Malkins wing. Then Simon and Sprong.

For me, my top 2 targets would be Eriksson and Okposo. I'd offer Eriksson 5x5m and Okposo 6x6m. My backup targets would be Brouwer (4x4.5m) and McGinn (4x3.75m).

 

[Empoleon8771]

After thinking about it, bringing in JT Miller (for Pouliot+) and Hansen (for Fehr+) during the off season would be an amazing offseason. We'd have:

Miller-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hansen-Malkin-Sprong
Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel
Kuhnhackl-Cullen-Rust

That's awesome and Miller and Hansen together wouldn't even hit $6 million AAV.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Fleury to Calgary for their two lowest 2nds makes a ton of sense. Or maybe one of klimchuck/Poirier and a 2nd.

 

[Tender Rip]

If you want to go 2 scoring lines approach then it's true. But if you want to go 3 scoring lines then you absolutely have to.

PIT has plenty of depth for 2 scoring lines, 3rd line and 4th line (that means also in purpose, i.e. you do not lean on your 3rd line to do significant part of your scoring).

PIT has no depth to create 3 scoring lines.

Like IcedCapp, I am wondering whether you got my meaning or not.
I am not saying that we should not add talent. I am saying we should add, but not players who are much more expensive yet little different from the exciting young players who have contributed much to us being in the finals. Adding someone like for instance Frolik at 4.3 million only insures that we will have no cap-space to get a REAL good player. I have no problem with Hansen, but people forget that he is one of the pieces Vancouver can insert in a deal to get a BETTER player, because his cap-hit and quality makes him desirable. In any case neither he nor Frolik are ever going to be real top6 players. They are what they are.

I say we need to get ONE winger who gives a decided boost (replacing Kunitz). For the rest, we can give it time to see what we have with guys like Sprong, Bennett, Rust, Wilson, Guentzel etc. etc. We can also promote a guy like Hagelin to the top 6 and have one of the other kids join Bonino/Kessel. It will still be a very good third line if it is Rust there instead for instance.

Finally - playing numerous of the youngsters is part A in creating the cap-room to actually do anything significant. Part B is managing to deal MAF and Kunitz. If we do both, we are going to be able to pay for pretty much whichever free agent we'd want except Stamkos who we don't want anyway.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

You mean 50s right? ANA's 2nd is ~54 and PITs is 59/60.

Duclair was drafted #80th. Kucherov was drafted #58. Trocheck #64. Gaudreau #104. Tatar #60. R.Smith #69. C. Smith #98. Pulkkinen #111. Nyqvist #121.

Don't tell us you can't find talent in the later half of the 2nd round - because you absolutely can. Is it a guarantee? Of course not, GMs make picks that don't pan out all the time. But don't act like it's impossible - especially as we're not asking for a Kucherov type guy. I'd be happy with Tatar and Smith (either). This is a deep draft. There'll be nice prospects there in the late 2nd round.

Of course. I'm not suggesting we can't find talent in the draft. I'm a pro-draft and develop guy.

But somebody has to play with Sid and somebody has to play with Geno for the next several seasons. EVEN if Kessel returns to play with one of them next season after the HBK magic wears off (if it even does), we still need somebody else.

All of the younger guys we've brought in this year provides us with the ability to add another big ticket. Well, that plus the potential Fleury deal. And maybe we could throw in Kunitz or Fehr. Ideally.

Sure we can draft 3 great wingers this year, but we still need somebody to play with Sid and Geno next season.


This season hasn't really changed anything with regards to that, because the two guys we acquired (Perron, which became Hagelin, and Kessel) became Nick Bonino's wingers. Killer third line but we're back to square one again.

The way I see it, you bring in one established scorer and play him with Crosby (most likely) or Malkin, and then you mix and match with training camp battles to complete the top nine.

And this would be where Beau Bennett comes into the equation, imo. Don't trade him. He's cheap and he has the talent to play with the big boys. Let him, Rust, Wilson, Sheary and Sprong go at it in camp for two jobs...and throw Simon, Guentzel and a few others in there too.

Add a few PTO's on non-guaranteed contracts and we should be fine.

 

[888 98 twins]

There is only one negative to this playoff run for me. It is all but guaranteeing Kunitz will not be traded this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining-this is completely worth it- but I think keeping Kunitz around 1 more year is becoming more and more set in stone.

 

[Tender Rip]

What did I misunderstood? What I read there in addition to these posts (see below) is that:
- you are not willing to break HBK line
- you are expecting Rust (Kuhnhackl) - Malkin - Sprong (Simon) line to be a legit scoring line
- provided point number 2, you want to upgrade LW on XXX-Crosby-Hornqvist line in summer

I just pointed out that it's really optimistic to expect point number 2. Even if you replace Sprong/Rust with McGinn or Brouwer. Maybe Okposo/Eriksson may make it work but I got a feeling that they were slotted as a LW in XXX - Crosby - Hornqvist line:

Ah... OK.
It is optimistic to see Malkin make Rust and Sprong genuine top6 forwards too in the short term. Sure. But I am not religious about not breaking up lines. The greater point is that we have several young players who can develop into options rather fast, but just like with our D a few years back, if we keep on signing established players for those positions and don't make space, then they will not get those chances and the established player will consume whatever cap-space we had to make any significant additions.

If we did NOT have any chances at seriously adding and didn't have many good youngsters - then of course I would be on board with trying to get the second best options who fit with our style of play.

And remember - our lines don't need to rock in the first half of the season. Also, we don't have to have made every move in the Summer. Surely several of the key ingredients to this years finals team were found during the season. Rather let the kids give us an idea what we have before we do anything rash.

 

[Tender Rip]

This doesn't compute. We'd be going after a player like him because we still do have holes at forward. We're not Chicago from years ago in terms of forward depth.

Chicago's depth when Frolik won a cup with them in 2013 was also based on them allowing Shaw, Bickell, Saad and Kryger to have roles - and Saad had then become a top6 forward in his own right when they won again last year. They had four stars and natural top6 forwards back then in Kane, Toews, Hossa and Sharp. I don't think we are inferior, we just have ours spread on three lines instead of two.

Our window to win is now to about 3-4 years from now. I'd rather add to the group for the time being and move guys as they become redundant.

And I say that I want to add someone who isn't just about redundant right now.

Yeah. That guy doesn't fit what we do at all. He's slow, pretty passive, relies on his smarts and is coming off of concussions as he enters his early 30s. Hell no.

Not everyone has to be the same kind of player. Eriksson has had one season since 2008 where he has missed significant games - after Orpik got him. And in that instant only 21. He didn't miss a single game this season, scored 30 goals and had 63 points. Seems to me you have no idea which player he is, really .

 

[Zirakzigil]

There is only one negative to this playoff run for me. It is all but guaranteeing Kunitz will not be traded this offseason.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining-this is completely worth it- but I think keeping Kunitz around 1 more year is becoming more and more set in stone.

Or he's actually increased his value around the league and will be easier to trade to a team not on his list.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Or he's actually increased his value around the league and will be easier to trade to a team not on his list.

Yeah this playoff run he's having is a good thing, he has really increased his value with his really strong play. I don't think Kunitz stays after the year after JR has almost traded him 3 times.

 

[66-30-33]

After thinking about it, bringing in JT Miller (for Pouliot+) and Hansen (for Fehr+) during the off season would be an amazing offseason. We'd have:

Miller-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hansen-Malkin-Sprong
Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel
Kuhnhackl-Cullen-Rust

That's awesome and Miller and Hansen together wouldn't even hit $6 million AAV.

Uh Rangers aren't helping Pens.

 

[Corvidae]

Stamkos would basically give you a free goal every pp that's for sure.

Yeah right, on the Penguins he'd become a pass-first player in a week.

Let Toronto pay him a billion dollars. We're top heavy enough as it is and this should not be seriously discussed in any way.

 

[Riptide]

Or he's actually increased his value around the league and will be easier to trade to a team not on his list.

That only applies if Rutherford wants to trade him. If he doesn't, then it doesn't matter what his value is.

 

[tread102]

Anybody think that Kunitz might hang it up if we win the cup? He'll be 37 to start next season and would have 3 cups. I think it's a possibility. For all the flack the guy has gotten here(most of it justified) I think the worse was the people calling him lazy. I think he's shot, but to his credit played probably as hard as he could last series. Probably wishful thinking, but it would be nice to clear that space.

 

[Riptide]

Yeah this playoff run he's having is a good thing, he has really increased his value with his really strong play. I don't think Kunitz stays after the year after JR has almost traded him 3 times.

He almost traded him 3 times - correct. However those were hockey trades in an attempt to bring in more skill (Kessel, Oshie and Sharp). So unless there's a deal like that out there, I wouldn't bank on him moving Kunitz for a pick/prospect. Perhaps a young player if he thinks they can step in immediately... but it won't be that cap dump for futures type most people have been throwing out there.

 

[Riptide]

Anybody think that Kunitz might hang it up if we win the cup? He'll be 37 to start next season and would have 3 cups. I think it's a possibility. For all the flack the guy has gotten here(most of it justified) I think the worse was the people calling him lazy. I think he's shot, but to his credit played probably as hard as he could last series. Probably wishful thinking, but it would be nice to clear that space.

And walk away from 3.55m? Zero chance that happens.

 

[66-30-33]

And walk away from 3.55m? Zero chance that happens.

Quoted for truth. No way would he retire, he will retire after next season or next playoffs if we make it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Uh Rangers aren't helping Pens.

Implying that trading Pouliot to the Rangers wouldn't be helping the Rangers.

He almost traded him 3 times - correct. However those were hockey trades in an attempt to bring in more skill (Kessel, Oshie and Sharp). So unless there's a deal like that out there, I wouldn't bank on him moving Kunitz for a pick/prospect. Perhaps a young player if he thinks they can step in immediately... but it won't be that cap dump for futures type most people have been throwing out there.

I think it's pretty likely Kunitz gers moved in a Perron-like deal. Kunitz for Pouliot still makes a lot of sense imo.

 

[66-30-33]

Implying that trading Pouliot to the Rangers wouldn't be helping the Rangers.

They wont be trading with the Pens to get even better.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They wont be trading with the Pens to get even better.

And again, you're pretending that the Rangers aren't getting something that would be making them better.

Under normal circumstances, I could see where you're coming from. But Miller is an extremely viable target for an offer sheet and I don't see many teams offering something better than Pouliot for him (most offers would be draft picks). They could easily take a worse offer with picks and move him out of the division, that's very possible. I just think you're really underestimating how much of a need Pouliot fills for them and how they probably won't be getting many offers like him for Miller.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Stamkos? Stamkos? You're talking Stamkos? Stamkos?

 

[Crosberry87]

Fleury to Calgary for their two lowest 2nds makes a ton of sense. Or maybe one of klimchuck/Poirier and a 2nd.

No. MAF easily brings back a first rounder +. Easily.