Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part IV | Contract chart, cap info in post #1

[Riptide]

Quite a few options in FA for a winger to flank Geno. I'm looking at Okposo, Hudler.

Okposo is going to get 6m+ with term. Not the end of the world, but it would require us making other moves first. And then we need to get him to sign here. Then address the fact that we would have 3 top 6 right wingers and still a hole on the left side.

Hudler would be good. However he's 32 and I don't think he's going to be all that cheap. Have to think at least 4m. Likely with a bit of term (say 3-4 years). Would you sign him to a 4x4m contract? That's probably a move "value" type move then going after Okposo, but there's also the risk there that it doesn't pan out. Hudler doesn't do a lot for you if he's not scoring.

 

[Zero Pucks]

Before making any big investments, people should consider:

1. Where the team currently is with this roster;
2. Rookie forwards look good and there are F prospects behind them that are also promising;
3. This team gets a lot more expensive after 16-17 when the following (currently cheap) contracts expire: Bonino, Dumoulin, Murray.

Any money that they save shedding Fleury & Kunitz will have to be reinvested into signing those 3, among other (re-)signings. I'm quite content with tweaking the current roster with our prospects (Sprong, Guentzel, Wilson) instead of signing any UFA F's.

It's definitely something to keep in mind. But Crosby and Malkin only have so many good years left. If we can shed 10 million dollars in cap-space and build an even better team for next season, we should do it. Worry about resigning those players and fitting everyone under the cap when we have to.

 

[DoktorZaius]

The obvious answer is a 3-way deal

Pens receive: Tarasenko

Blues receive: Forsberg

Nashville receives: Malkin

Nashville gets the Malkin-Neal tandem reuinted for a few solid playoff runs with Shea Weber.

Blues get rid of the cancerous Tarasenko who refuses to play Ken Hitchcock hockey, and replace him with an even younger winger who their evil head coach can mold into the perfect lackey.

Sid finally gets his winger.

 

[Asuna]

The obvious answer is a 3-way deal

Pens receive: Tarasenko

Blues receive: Forsberg

Nashville receives: Malkin

Nashville gets the Malkin-Neal tandem reuinted for a few solid playoff runs with Shea Weber.

Blues get rid of the cancerous Tarasenko who refuses to play Ken Hitchcock hockey, and replace him with an even younger winger who their evil head coach can mold into the perfect lackey.

Sid finally gets his winger.

that's so crazy it just might work!

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Did you watch him much after the trade? Curious to know how he played. I watched a bit of him in Arizona and thought he was a bit overrated.

I pretty much only watched him after the trade and I thought he was really good. Mainly off the rush (which is why I would love him with Sid/Hornqvist) and his passing is much better than I'd expected.

As far as guys available this summer, I think he's about the ideal guy to go after for Sid's LW.

 

[PensandCaps]

that's so crazy it just might work!

Nashville says no. We need to sign erat.

 

[billybudd]

Flower for Lehtonen

MAF would be an upgrade in goal for Dallas statistically, experientially (won a Cup), and even in the "eyeball" test. On the flip side, with the clear emergence of Murray for the Pens, the trade (1) could allow him to take over the starter role, (2) but still have a more-than adequate "backup" that won the Stars 25 games last year, (3) all while shedding an extra year of contract tied up on an older goalie.

Dallas fan from the trade boards.

I link this not because its a good suggestion (neutral fans eviscerated it as insufficient return for Pittsburgh), but just to give a little context both to the perception of Fleury and to the situations in net for a few other teams. They don't just see "playoff meltdown" like some of us do; they see "better and more reliable with a more established track record of success than what we got." It's not a reach to think that GMs will see some combination of this and the Ray Shero "Where else am I going to find a guy who wins 40 games and plays 65 every year?" Fans might be guilty of making the perfect the enemy of the good, but a GM who thinks that way won't last long.

If/when Walsh asks for a trade, we'll find a taker. And we'll get something back.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Trading Kunitz for Pouliot and Fleury to Calgary gives 9.4m in cap space. You get a backup for around 3m. That leaves you with 6 million to get a winger for Geno. That could be Okposo.

 

[mpp9]

Dallas fan from the trade boards.

I link this not because its a good suggestion (neutral fans eviscerated it as insufficient return for Pittsburgh), but just to give a little context both to the perception of Fleury and to the situations in net for a few other teams. They don't just see "playoff meltdown" like some of us do; they see "better and more reliable with a more established track record of success than what we got." It's not a reach to think that GMs will see some combination of this and the Ray Shero "Where else am I going to find a guy who wins 40 games and plays 65 every year?" Fans might be guilty of making the perfect the enemy of the good, but a GM who thinks that way won't last long.

If/when Walsh asks for a trade, we'll find a taker. And we'll get something back.

I feel like certain posters just can't see past their frustration with Fleury. He's still an upgrade for plenty of teams in the league. A bubble team thinking a marginal upgrade in goal gets them back to the playoffs will absolutely pull the trigger.

 

[JQR]

I feel like certain posters just can't see past their frustration with Fleury. He's still an upgrade for plenty of teams in the league. A bubble team thinking a marginal upgrade in goal gets them back to the playoffs will absolutely pull the trigger.

I recall looking at his numbers either last year or the year before and he was basically right smack dab in the middle as far as starters. So you've got 50% of the league seeing him as an upgrade and probably 25% seeing him as a significant upgrade (don't quote me on those numbers, you'd have to verify). He isn't coming off a bad season either. But I don't see a GM in the league who doesn't try to solidify Murray as the starter and move Fleury, and I think there are more than a handful of GMs who will see that as an opportunity to grab Fleury if they can.

 

[billybudd]

I feel like certain posters just can't see past their frustration with Fleury. He's still an upgrade for plenty of teams in the league. A bubble team thinking a marginal upgrade in goal gets them back to the playoffs will absolutely pull the trigger.

If I was the Calgary Flames GM, even with all the frustration I've had with Flower over the years, I jump at the chance to have him in net instead of a guy like Ramo.

Value of performance is relative. All a guy needs to be to improve your team is 1% better than the guy you got. Flower's a lot more than 1% better than Ramo or Niemi or whoever.

 

[1988toNow]

Great replies. Hey kirk and shady and the regulars here thanks for the input.

The hockey discussion here is awesome.

Agreed Krieder prob not worth it or even possible.

Nash is said to be available. Are they willing to eat 50 percent retention? How injury prone at 31yo?

The complimentary skil set wing is paramount for twonreasons: geno doesn't have to carry it and that 2lw can create on his own. Sprong NEEDS a high high skilled line tocome into the nhl on all at once for him to make it to the next level and learn to find or make the spots to rip shots. Kid seems mentally strong and goal scorers charisma to him. Geno and Frolik set Sprong up to succeed. He can't do that on the 4th line like he was tried w MJ. That was sad to watch. Cullen set him up for his first and he crore a goal scorers goal at ottawa. Geno can work with that. Sprong would benefit from a shot coach how to use it in traffic like Kehoe did for jagrs wrister when he was young and mostly backhand.

Schultz gets knocked around too easily esp for an nhl player d. And his age. Powerlifting. Maybe even some martial arts adjunct training along with the science diet and as a trainer myself I think it would change his whole life for him. We've seen a LOT of really good point men on our team over the years and I grew up on coff. Justin Schultz is one hell of a player on the pp. PhIL is getting better over on Marios old spot and I'm so impressed his literally pinpoint passing ability.

Shultz need some kind of contract we spent an asset to get him. Cole can go too much dollars.

Lovejoy is a nice character decent player 7th RD. I don't believe in playing d on the off side.

Cole is to xpnsv for a 7 8ld

Priorities this off season:
Either trade or Ufa or RFA 1lw. Speed and some setup, works well w sid.
Get Sprong ready.
Continue w Schultz and god we hope Gonch stays.
Acquire 2lw specifically for geno.
Consider extension for daley. He's found a home and fit in pittsburgh.
Next season extend bonino.
Trade: MAF kunitz cole pouliot maatta if necessary for 1lw
Sign matt cullen if he wants a year. He should split time w sundqvist reg season tutor him and save his legs for full time in the playoffs. Guide use of human resources.
Draft: d on both our 2nd. Preferably big guys who can skate.
Fill 2G.

I don't think Kuhn is ever going to be as good offensively as we like. Heckuva boards player and high compete level and he's going to get better as a guy that helps you win the game in many ways. He's got it together on the pk. I think he could be coached to be more aggressive overall and he'd pressure defenses in close of the net.

Wilson who knows.

I think it sends a message to geno too that hey were here to win and we tried to right the wrong of us underemploying you at 9m per with average or less wings which oh by the way are 2/3 of your line.

The sid fix on 1lw puts us on top.

Yandle as 2rd? Thoughts?

1lw sid horn
2lw geno Sprong w platoon support
Hags hadji Phil
Kuhn cullen sundqvist rust

That's one he14 of a forward corps FOR the type of hockey our brand plays.

I think maatta for a 1lw is doable. To Toronto for JVR would work right now to set off sids line. Babcock would prob like that move for them. They're getting Austin Matthews so Olli would really help in their eyes. JVR is what 27yo? Locked up reasonably for next 3-4 years?

I've been meaning to mention for a while I think MAF would have the same success behind calgarys pretty solid d corps. Like he did behind MJ s d corps and even w regular scuderi.

Fleury and Kunitz for Frolik and wideman? Is he a 2nd pair RH rd?

Could we move cole and take one of their goalies w some retention to save a mil?

Bogosian would be awesome for the pens.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Outside of Kreider, I wouldn't want anyone on the Rangers. Absolutely not Yandle, absolutely not Nash.

In free agency, I'm targeting Boedker first and going after him hard. If we can get him for $5M or so, that'd be fantastic.

I'm dumping Kunitz for whatever we can get--say a 3rd rounder. I'm letting Lovejoy walk, I'd replace Cole with someone of similar caliber for less than his $2M+ cap hit. I'm aggressively shopping MAF and Pouliot. Trying to find a taker for Fehr.

If we can land a long-term LW solution with MAF or MAF+Pouliot, I'm doing it in a heartbeat.

Boedker - Crosby - Hornqvist
XXXX - Malkin - Sprong
Hagelin - Bonino - Kessel
Kuhn - Cullen/Sundqvist - Rust
Wilson

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Daley
XXXX - Schultz

Murray
XXXX

I haven't run the numbers, but I'd be shocked if we didn't have a ton of money left over to find a bottom pairing defenseman and a backup goalie.

 

[1988toNow]

Yeah coach that is a pretty tight ship.

Daleys game I believe is gonna be good for 3 years. He's an impressive athlete and fit for us.

Agreed on money left over. I like how you kept maatta.

Big problem though is I'd bet boedker has verbally committed to the avs when he was acquired as to signing as a ufa. Maybe if Roy gets radulov boedker could be had. Does he work better w sid or geno?

Fehr can go but is a nice inset player when somebody's hurt but we have wbs guys who can do that.

 

[Riptide]

Boedker - Crosby - Hornqvist
XXXX - Malkin - Sprong
Hagelin - Bonino - Kessel
Kuhn - Cullen/Sundqvist - Rust
Wilson

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Daley
XXXX - Schultz

Murray
XXXX

I haven't run the numbers, but I'd be shocked if we didn't have a ton of money left over to find a bottom pairing defenseman and a backup goalie.

If you're moving that much salary out, I wouldnt' even bother finding a bottom pairing guy. Keep Pouliot and run:

Dumoulin - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Pouliot - Daley

Edit. That said, I do not see Rutherford moving Cole. He's been a very good (even if expensive) 3rd pairing guy for us. And someone who can step up if needed.

 

[mpp9]

I think any player you bring in has to fit in with what Sullivan's preaching here. Every single forward on this roster is buying into playing the right way away from the puck. We're making teams pay for making mistakes. Not cheating for offense. Kessel and Malkin are among our worst forwards defensively, and they're elite talents that put forth the effort a vast majority of the time.

Boedker floats alot. Hoffman got benched a ton this season because he doesn't help much when he's not scoring. Nichushkin doesn't score nearly enough to make up for his deficiencies.

I'd sooner go after another Hornqvist, Hagelin or Bonino (who can play wing) to create three HBK type lines. A 4 mil or so cap hit who brings some combination of speed, smarts, work ethic and fits the team game that has worked very well for us this season.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Sounds like something that could change under Sullivan, seeing as how we all criticized Sid, Geno, Kessel, etc. for lackluster efforts at times under Sullivan. /shrug

Boedker's got skill and speed, and is young enough to be a member of the core. That's what we're desperately missing at wing. If we could land JVR from Toronto for MAF, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and that'd be my first choice, but NTC stuff may complicate that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

For what it's worth, Madden said today that he doesn't see Walsh not asking for a trade for Fleury and that it's not Fleury asking for a trade, it's Walsh. I didn't know agents did that, I thought demanding a trade was something players did.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think any player you bring in has to fit in with what Sullivan's preaching here. Every single forward on this roster is buying into playing the right way away from the puck. We're making teams pay for making mistakes. Not cheating for offense. Kessel and Malkin are among our worst forwards defensively, and they're elite talents that put forth the effort a vast majority of the time.

Boedker floats alot. Hoffman got benched a ton this season because he doesn't help much when he's not scoring. Nichushkin doesn't score nearly enough to make up for his deficiencies.

I'd sooner go after another Hornqvist, Hagelin or Bonino (who can play wing) to create three HBK type lines. A 4 mil or so cap hit who brings some combination of speed, smarts, work ethic and fits the team game that has worked very well for us this season.

Hoffman got benched because his coach is an idiot. This is the same coach who couldn't even get the entire team to buy into any sort of defensive play and got fired because of it. Did you see how many of their games they got outshot in? Judging Hoffman based on how coach Cameron used him is like judging Despres on how coach Bylsma used him.

Hoffman would be money if he were available. He could become Malkin's new James Neal, but without the dumb penalties.

The purpose of bringing in more top six wingers is also to bring in more actual skill, so Sid and Geno don't have to do everything. I love Hornqvist, but part of the reason Sid's kind of struggled in the playoffs is because he has to be the guy who creates things for his line. Hornqvist is pretty bad if he's relied on to handle the puck or make plays.

We've got enough of the "meat and potato" top six guys. What we need is more of an influx of talent. Sure, they've got to fit into the style Sullivan wants to play. But both Hoffman and Boedker are good skaters, so they can keep up with the pace of the game Sullivan emphasizes. It's not like signing those guys would be like adding Matt Moulson and Dany Heatley.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not sure that the Pens need to find an ultra speedy guy to play with Malkin to be honest, I feel like bringing in someone who fits how Malkin plays would be more beneficial than bringing in someone who fits how the Penguins play. He has been more effective over the years with slower east-west players than with fast north-south players. Ideally, you have 1 of each on his line, but I think we can fill the fast north-south player very easily internally. For example, I think a line like Hagelin-Malkin-Neal would be absolutely fantastic.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'm not sure that the Pens need to find an ultra speedy guy to play with Malkin to be honest, I feel like bringing in someone who fits how Malkin plays would be more beneficial than bringing in someone who fits how the Penguins play. He has been more effective over the years with slower east-west players than with fast north-south players. Ideally, you have 1 of each on his line, but I think we can fill the fast north-south player very easily internally. For example, I think a line like Hagelin-Malkin-Neal would be absolutely fantastic.

If we could pull it off, I'd kill for JVR with Geno. I think those two would be dynamite. Big, strong, they can work the give and go (which I think is essential for a winger to really click with Geno), and JVR's got an underrated scoring touch imo.

But then you're missing the puck hound on that line. I dunno. On paper, I think JVR - Malkin - Sprong would be tremendous, but the lack of a grunt makes me wonder.

 

[pistolpete11]

I really liked the Frolik suggestion for Malkin. Not sure exactly how you get him from Calgary without including Fleury and who knows if Fleury would accept a trade there. I thought he was pretty versatile though (could be wrong), so put him on the RW and Wilson or Kuhn on the LW?

Sign Schultz for ~$2-2.5.

Trade Kuntiz and use that cap space+ what's left of Fleury's cap space to try and find a LW for Sid.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I really liked the Frolik suggestion for Malkin. Not sure exactly how you get him from Calgary without including Fleury and who knows if Fleury would accept a trade there. I thought he was pretty versatile though (could be wrong), so put him on the RW and Wilson or Kuhn on the LW?

Sign Schultz for ~$2-2.5.

Trade Kuntiz and use that cap space+ what's left of Fleury's cap space to try and find a LW for Sid.

I'd rather find a LWer to play with Malkin and run with that guy-Malkin-Sprong. I really don't see a reason for the Pens to trade for another RWer in the next 3 years.

If we could pull it off, I'd kill for JVR with Geno. I think those two would be dynamite. Big, strong, they can work the give and go (which I think is essential for a winger to really click with Geno), and JVR's got an underrated scoring touch imo.

But then you're missing the puck hound on that line. I dunno. On paper, I think JVR - Malkin - Sprong would be tremendous, but the lack of a grunt makes me wonder.

I still think Hagelin-Malkin-Sprong is worth looking into, although you don't really have a east-west player to play with Malkin on that line.

 

[Steel Winning]

Sounds like something that could change under Sullivan, seeing as how we all criticized Sid, Geno, Kessel, etc. for lackluster efforts at times under Sullivan. /shrug

Boedker's got skill and speed, and is young enough to be a member of the core. That's what we're desperately missing at wing. If we could land JVR from Toronto for MAF, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and that'd be my first choice, but NTC stuff may complicate that.

Maybe Flower + Pouliot for JVR and our 1st back
***Assuming 1 million for Cullen
***Assuming 2 million for Schultz

Hagelin - Crosby - Hornqvist - 16.950
XXXX - Malkin - Sprong - 10.193 + XXXX
JVR - Bonino - Kessel - 12.950
Kuhn - Cullen - Rust - 2.265
Wilson - 0.625

Dumoulin - Letang - 8.050
Maata - Daley - 7.383
Cole - Schultz - 4.100
XXXX - ~1.000

Murray - 0.628
XXXX - ~2.250

Scuds Retention - 1.125

Total - 67.519 of 74.000

leaves 6.481 million to sign or trade for a LW for Malkin: Boedker? Hoffman? Lucic? Skinner?

 

[mpp9]

I'd love to add as many high end players as possible, but we're already paying three guys 6.8 mil+ at forward.

Hagelin/Hornqvist money is the cap ceiling for a player I'd be going after. Maybe we're lucky enough to somehow land JVR this summer. He fits the cap structure for a couple more years. But I don't see too many options out there in terms of legit top line players that'd fit in here.