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2015-2016 Roster Talk: Kings Have no Elite Players Edition

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Ziggy Stardust said:
I think a large part of the struggles from the bottom six forwards is that they haven't been lines that Sutter can rely upon, and he's openly been critical of them of late.

Just look at the numbers, I'm sure if I set aside the time later on to look at scoring from bottom six forwards, the Kings will be right at the bottom or near there. They also aren't necessarily physically punishing or grinding out the lines they are matched up against either.
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I could probably do that throughout the day too, the trouble may be that a few teams have notably changed their third lines lately (Chi, Ana, even SJ) or rotate their top 9 heavily instead of just their top six. I'm all ears for teams to examine though.

That being said, the last line isn't totally accurate. They may not be crushing people as much as we would like, but I think that's a Sutter directive (all the fly-bys from ALL the lines this year to keep pace up and reduce wear and tear--but just my hypothesis)--but they are absolutely dominating the puck compared to other third and fourth lines, they're just not scoring as much as we want, but over the course of a seven game series, if all those guys are outplaying their counterparts, we have to like our chances.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
I could probably do that throughout the day too, the trouble may be that a few teams have notably changed their third lines lately (Chi, Ana, even SJ) or rotate their top 9 heavily instead of just their top six. I'm all ears for teams to examine though.

That being said, the last line isn't totally accurate. They may not be crushing people as much as we would like, but I think that's a Sutter directive (all the fly-bys from ALL the lines this year to keep pace up and reduce wear and tear--but just my hypothesis)--but they are absolutely dominating the puck compared to other third and fourth lines, they're just not scoring as much as we want, but over the course of a seven game series, if all those guys are outplaying their counterparts, we have to like our chances.
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this is true of the whole team though, not just the 3rd/4th lines. I think the bottom six is fine, if the top six actually starts scoring like they should then the bottom six suddenly looks a lot better just by association. There's still some things to be worked out before the playoffs (namely that 4C spot) but again, I really think that there's potentially bigger issues than our bottom six not scoring.
 
Kings:
GF: 165
GA: 143
CF%: 56.3%


[table="head;width=25em"] Player | GP | G | A | P |CF% | CFRel | Hits | Toi/G
Dustin Brown | 62 | 8 | 15 | 23 | 59.4% | 4.7% |173 | 16:17
Trevor Lewis | 55 | 6 | 7| 13 | 57.2% | 2.0% | 134 | 14:52
Vinny Lecavalier | 23 | 5 | 4 | 9 | 47.8% | -7.0% | 30 | 13:44
Nick Shore | 56 | 3 | 6 | 9 | 60.4% | 6.4% | 82 | 12:39
Andy Andreoff | 48 | 4 | 1| 5 | 47.4% | -9.9% | 67 | 8:58
Kyle Clifford | 37 | 1 | 4 | 5 | 52.2% | -2.1% | 71 | 9:14
Jordan Nolan | 52 | 0 | 5 | 5 | 50.3% | -5.1% | 78 | 8:53
Dwight King | 27 | 6 | 5 | 11 | 52% | -4.3% | 43 | 14:28

[/table]

Would something like that for other teams work? I guess I could do faceoffs too but meh.

If you look at it that way, the bottom six only contributes 33 of 165 goals, which is 20%, but the real number is probably less due to bouncing around the lineup like Brown, King, Lewis.

I'll work on the Isles next, since their bottom line is widely agreed upon as the best in the league. Then will take a couple more suggestions from there.
 
NY Islanders:
GF: 174
GA: 151
CF%: 52.3%


[table="head;width=25em"] Player | GP | G | A | P |CF% | CFRel | Hits | Toi/G
Anders Lee | 61 | 10 | 17 | 27 | 53.5% | 4.5% |133 | 15:04
Brock Nelson | 61 | 21 | 12 | 33 | 49.3% | -1.8% | 48 | 16:11
Cal Clutterbuck | 59 | 11 | 7 | 18 | 50.5% | 3.7% | 227 | 11:33
Matt Martin | 61 | 7 | 9 | 16 | 50.6% | 5.7% | 290 | 10:20
Casey Cizikas | 61 | 7 | 17 | 24 | 48.6% | -0.5% | 128 | 12:23
Mikhail Grabovski | 57 | 9 | 16 | 25 | 49.7% | 0% | 27 | 14:03
Nikolay Kulemin | 61 | 6 | 9 | 15 | 48.6% | -2.4% | 83 | 14:08
Ryan Strome | 50 | 7 | 16 | 23 | 49.5% | -0.9% | 58 | 15:43

[/table]

Quick observations--Grabovski Kulemin Strome especially (and Nelson) have moved up and down the lineup too, like Brown, so must be cautious there--but bottom six has scored 78 of 174 goals = 44.8%, much greater than Kings. They've also had greater relative health there and much more consistent lines which is 1. good for chemistry and 2. more time to build numbers. That's not to say they're not much better off there but it's an important distinction. Their bottom line in particular is absolutely punishing people with hits as always.

Alright, someone else's turn, I have to get more work done :laugh:
 
Reclamation Project said:
Matt Greene skating.
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sundial4.jpg


I'm ready to time his lap!
 
If Greene were to come back--not saying I would personally do this--but I could see Sutter going to Doughty-Scuderi / Muzzin-Schenn / Martinez-Greene / McNabb for general situations in the playoffs.
 
If Greene comes back:

Muzzin-Doughty
Martinez-Schenn
Scuderi-McNabb/McBain
 
Just looking at next years lineup taking in consideration for players that are currently signed, - no RFA or UFA

Toffoli - Kopitar - Pearson
Gabby - Carter - King
Brown - Vinnie - mersch
Nolan - Andy A - Cliffy
Shore

Doughty - Muzzin
Marty - Scuds
Greene - Gravel

Quick - Budaj

Cost is $64.7 m counting Richards buyout. Not a scary lineup.

If Vinny retires we gain another 2.25 mil and our cap is $62.5 mil
I am not going to speculate that Greene goes LTIR or Scuds gets stuck in the AHL because there is no proof to base that assumption at this time.

If the cap holds steady at 71.4 that gives us 6.7 to 9 mil to upgrade.

My thoughts are I love Lucic but will a long term contract be another Brown 2.0 ? I don't like how physical mid skill guys age lately.

Our defense is Swiss cheese, trade for a true #3 RHD like Myers, etc?

Remember the cap is unstable and we still need room for Toffoli the year after.

D.L will have to get creative this offseason. Hopefully it's with another Cup hangover.
 
funky said:
Just looking at next years lineup taking in consideration for players that are currently signed, - no RFA or UFA

Toffoli - Kopitar - Pearson
Gabby - Carter - King
Brown - Vinnie - mersch
Nolan - Andy A - Cliffy
Shore

Doughty - Muzzin
Marty - Scuds
Greene - Gravel

Quick - Budaj

Cost is $64.7 m counting Richards buyout. Not a scary lineup.

If Vinny retires we gain another 2.25 mil and our cap is $62.5 mil
I am not going to speculate that Greene goes LTIR or Scuds gets stuck in the AHL because there is no proof to base that assumption at this time.

If the cap holds steady at 71.4 that gives us 6.7 to 9 mil to upgrade.

My thoughts are I love Lucic but will a long term contract be another Brown 2.0 ? I don't like how physical mid skill guys age lately.

Our defense is Swiss cheese, trade for a true #3 RHD like Myers, etc?

Remember the cap is unstable and we still need room for Toffoli the year after.

D.L will have to get creative this offseason. Hopefully it's with another Cup hangover.
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Scuds and Vinny retire. Does Gaborik even make it back this year or the start of next? If Greene comes back he's dealt in the offseason. Nolan won't be ready for the start of next season. Re sign Lucic if you can along with Lewis. Trade Clifford because he's expensive on the 4th line.

Toffoli - Kopitar - Pearson
Lucic - Carter - King
Brown - Lewis - Mersch
Shore - Dowd - Andreoff

Doughty - Muzzin
Martinez - McNabb
Forbort - Gravel

Quick - Budaj

Not pretty but it'll have to do.
 
We for sure won't be the best defensive team in the league if that's what our bottom 3 D look like. That fourth line will basically be a free penalty or goal for the other team.
 
If you can get Schenn for 3 mil or less, that should be done without thinking twice. Lewis might price himself out.
 
Reaper45 said:
Scuds and Vinny retire.
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Why would Scuds retire? We're only paying him ~1.1MM, so stashing him in the minors would cost ~150k, but he has given no indications of retiring. In fact, DL said one of the hangups with CHI was how to account for next year's salary. At $1.1, he'll be fine for a bottom pairing defender. Problem is that Sutter is using him on the top pair with DD.
 
Scuds is not walking away from a couple million dollars.

Would be shocked.

Regardless, only a $175M cap hit or something if he is in Ontario. Prefer he keeps playing just to stick cap hits on Chicago and Pittsburgh.
 
Well, looking at players that are signed for next year or RFA's with no leverage, this may be a more realistic look at what DL has to fill in. Assuming certain players will retire that have not stated so usually does not pan out.

Gaborik-Kopitar-
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
King-Dowd-Brown
Clifford-Shore-Nolan
Andreoff,Mersch

Scuderi-Doughty
Muzzin-Martinez
McNabb-Greene
Forbort

Quick-Budaj

If you are able to sign Lucic, combined with the player's in the AHL that are ready to make the jump, this could be next year's roster. Of course, it's almost impossible to predict what will happen, but this roster would be competitive, but once again offensively challenged.
 
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If Schenn is re-signed, I look for DL to trade Greene. Greene's been injured quite a bit, but he has a friendly AAV, and is a RH, which there seems to be a shortage of, so, we can unload Greene for a decent pick or two, I'm thinking.
 
HYORI 1963 said:
If Schenn is re-signed, I look for DL to trade Greene. Greene's been injured quite a bit, but he has a friendly AAV, and is a RH, which there seems to be a shortage of, so, we can unload Greene for a decent pick or two, I'm thinking.
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Maybe, but if you want Lucic back on the team, there is zero chance you could afford both without significant salary moves.
 
Schenn hasn't set the world on fire but he is significantly better than Greene.

I don't even want to think about Greene out there against some of these speed teams we may see in the playoffs.
 
Schenn and Scuds are both perfectly sound depth options.

The problem is they're being slotted as #2 and #4.
 
Herby said:
Schenn hasn't set the world on fire but he is significantly better than Greene.

I don't even want to think about Greene out there against some of these speed teams we may see in the playoffs.
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Schenn aint much faster.
 
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