2015-2016 Roster Talk: East Coast Thinks We Suck Edition(MOD WARNING) post# 107

[Omni Owl]

Wouldn't mind Barrie either, but I feel like we don't even have the assets to trade for anyone right now. I mean we do, but I wouldn't want to see what's left of our prospect pool cleaned out.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I mean, I think that's what's going to define this year for us, and I'm not sure what the right answer is--we go all in and get a Byfuglien or whatever and kiss our remaining 2nd round pick and Kempe/Zykov/Gravel whatever goodbye, or we hang onto what we have and go long term.

DL 5 years ago would hold onto the assets, DL now I'm not so sure. And I don't know which I agree with really.

 

[Ron*]

The reason the Kopitar thread got closed was because no one could act like grownups.

Chat here if you want, but if this one degenerates the same way, infractions and threadbans will follow.

Can you please open the Kopitar thread once he signs next month? Pretty please?

Looking incredibly forward to the endless entertainment that will inevitably follow.

 

[deeshamrock]

Also, Tyson Barrie would be another decent RH D-man. Weren't there rumors of him being moved about a month ago?

His name came up in a TSN Podcast I was listening to about a week ago, one of the guests was from the Denver Post and Barrie and McKinnon are the 2 highest profiled players of the 12 Avs players with expiring contracts this year. He mentioned the Avs are 'notoriously cheap' and both players are seeking over 6M which is the $$ line they don't like crossing but will have to for McKinnon. He said signing Barrie is a high priority for them , being a huge part of their future blueline and trending upwards as a very good d.
He felt he'll sign just under 6 M, but felt he'd get signed.

Elliotte Friedman speculated about Barrie in one of his recent 30 thoughts columns and mentioned if the Avs couldn't get an agreement , and had to move him the asking price would be extremely high.

I like Barrie, and the Avs would be nuts to trade him.

Kings and Jets - Oh a week or so ago I read a snippet in the Winnipeg Sun that the Kings are still in the mix of a Byfuglien trade and although their original offer was not enough, they might to be willing to up the ante. Something about DL willing to overpay for rentals and he's pushing for a 3rd cup, no matter the cost. And recent discussions between the teams perhaps suggesting that.
I hope not, I'm not a fan of Byf.

 

[KINGS17]

His name came up in a TSN Podcast I was listening to about a week ago, one of the guests was from the Denver Post and Barrie and McKinnon are the 2 highest profiled players of the 12 Avs players with expiring contracts this year. He mentioned the Avs are 'notoriously cheap' and both players are seeking over 6M which is the $$ line they don't like crossing but will have to for McKinnon. He said signing Barrie is a high priority for them , being a huge part of their future blueline and trending upwards as a very good d.
He felt he'll sign just under 6 M, but felt he'd get signed.

Elliotte Friedman speculated about Barrie in one of his recent 30 thoughts columns and mentioned if the Avs couldn't get an agreement , and had to move him the asking price would be extremely high.

I like Barrie, and the Avs would be nuts to trade him.

Kings and Jets - Oh a week or so ago I read a snippet in the Winnipeg Sun that the Kings are still in the mix of a Byfuglien trade and although their original offer was not enough, they might to be willing to up the ante. Something about DL willing to overpay for rentals and he's pushing for a 3rd cup, no matter the cost. And recent discussions between the teams perhaps suggesting that.
I hope not, I'm not a fan of Byf.

Kind of strange considering that the Avs used to be big spenders. They should try to hold on to Barrie, I agree.

Dean seems to have done a 180-degree turn from where he was not too long ago. Once he went down the path of hanging on to Richards and giving Brown his crazy deal I suppose there was no turning back.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

I mean, I think that's what's going to define this year for us, and I'm not sure what the right answer is--we go all in and get a Byfuglien or whatever and kiss our remaining 2nd round pick and Kempe/Zykov/Gravel whatever goodbye, or we hang onto what we have and go long term.

DL 5 years ago would hold onto the assets, DL now I'm not so sure. And I don't know which I agree with really.

According to Eklund...the Kings up'd their offer for big Buff and are the front runners. So I guess dean doesn't care about any future for the Kings.

I thought he wanted us to be like Detroit and be perennial contenders but we are more like Colorado of old. Good for a short term and sucky for awhile then good again then sucky.

I think they should hold onto the prospects they got and not trade for anymore UFAs.

 

[damacles1156]

Mods Will not tolerate attacking posters. FINAL WARNING.

CUT IT OUT.

 

[Omni Owl]

DL definitely got emotionally attached to the guys that brought us 2 Cups. Look at that contract he gave Greene as well.

 

[Ron*]

According to Eklund

Stopped reading at that point.

 

[damacles1156]

How does Eklund live with himself ? serious question.

That guy has zero credibility.

 

[KINGS17]

According to Eklund...the Kings up'd their offer for big Buff and are the front runners. So I guess dean doesn't care about any future for the Kings.

I thought he wanted us to be like Detroit and be perennial contenders but we are more like Colorado of old. Good for a short term and sucky for awhile then good again then sucky.

I think they should hold onto the prospects they got and not trade for anymore UFAs.

I feel this way as well. I met Dean at the Select-a-Seat his first year as GM and the guy talked my leg off after the session was over. I walked away thinking, "Finally, a man with a plan." He wasn't saying the usual garbage that we had been hearing in the past that was along the lines of, "We just have to make the playoffs, then anything can happen."

Not sure what Dean is thinking these days. Maybe he now believes that no team in the NHL can stay on top for an extended period of time. Maybe that line of thinking is correct, but I would have liked to have seen him stick with some of the kids he traded in the last couple of seasons.

No matter what though, Dean has created a culture in the organization that is great and should lead to success in the future, even if there are some hiccups for a few years.

Bring on the next lockout, the Kings are going to need it.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

According to Eklund...the Kings up'd their offer for big Buff and are the front runners. So I guess dean doesn't care about any future for the Kings.

I thought he wanted us to be like Detroit and be perennial contenders but we are more like Colorado of old. Good for a short term and sucky for awhile then good again then sucky.

I think they should hold onto the prospects they got and not trade for anymore UFAs.

I think Dean realized that there is only one Detroit, and there will continue to be only one Detroit. They're an anomaly in professional sports. No team in any league has been that good for that long. They are the exception to the rule, not an attainable example.

NJ was dominant for a long, long time, and they eventually fell apart, too. I think Dean would want to emulate their model moreso than Detroit's. Lock up your core until they're old, go for broke as many years as you can. Eventually you're barren, but you likely have a few championships. NJ won three championships over the course of nine years with, more or less, the same small core of players, and a retool somewhere in the middle there. And then they fell apart.

Dean probably knows that's our best bet at this point. But yeah, Detroit is a pipe dream. They hit the lottery several times with these obscure, late round European picks. They exploited a pool of players not a lot of other teams had their eye on, and they got a little lucky at the same time. Lidstrom and Datsyuk are HOFers and they were drafted in the fifth and seventh rounds, respectively. That just doesn't happen.

 

[damacles1156]

There will be another lockout, When most of your UFA are 28/29 sucking up huge Cap dollars on Eight year deals.

Well GM's will try once again, to save themselves, from themselves.

 

[KINGS17]

I think Dean realized that there is only one Detroit, and there will continue to be only one Detroit. They're an anomaly in professional sports. No team in any league has been that good for that long. They are the exception to the rule, not an attainable example.

NJ was dominant for a long, long time, and they eventually fell apart, too. I think Dean would want to emulate their model moreso than Detroit's. Lock up your core until they're old, go for broke as many years as you can. Eventually you're barren, but you likely have a few championships. NJ won three championships over the course of nine years with, more or less, the same small core of players, and a retool somewhere in the middle there. And then they fell apart.

Dean probably knows that's our best bet at this point. But yeah, Detroit is a pipe dream. They hit the lottery several times with these obscure, late round European picks. They exploited a pool of players not a lot of other teams had their eye on, and they got a little lucky at the same time. Lidstrom and Datsyuk are HOFers and they were drafted in the fifth and seventh rounds, respectively. That just doesn't happen.

All true. Detroit also went out and spent big money on players like Hull and Robitaille. Those days are over for every team.

 

[damacles1156]

Also ask yourself this about DET. How serious of a Cup threat have they been in the last Six years ?

2010 was probably the last year.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Stopped reading at that point.

I don't trust his words but he has some kind of credibility somehow.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

All true. Detroit also went out and spent big money on players like Hull and Robitaille. Those days are over for every team.

Exactly. And agreed with Damacles, too. They've been treading water for a while. They were utterly dominant from 1996-early 2000s, and then spiked again post-lockout during the Datsyuk/Zetterberg prime. They've been a playoff team, but a non-contender for a while.

 

[KINGS17]

Also ask yourself this about DET. How serious of a Cup threat have they been in the last Six years ?

2010 was probably the last year.

Yeah, they are a black hole team now. If I was a fan of that team, I would advocate moving Datsyuk and Zetterberg to a contender and rebuild. Not sure what they have left on their deals though in terms of years. Most contenders can't afford to take on those kind of deals unless the player will be a UFA at the end of the season.

I expect that the next lockout will either end guaranteed contracts, or cut back on the max length to five or six years.

GMs that recognize that their money is best spent by buying the UFA years or their most talented players just before they breakout will have the most success.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Also ask yourself this about DET. How serious of a Cup threat have they been in the last Six years ?

2010 was probably the last year.

They haven't been but would you rather be DET with a chance every year or NJ with years of "wtf kind of team is this"?

 

[damacles1156]

I don't trust his words but he has some kind of credibility somehow.

I really don't think Eklund has any credibility at all.

I mean, there isn't some sort of journal police out their, vetting your sources.

 

[damacles1156]

They haven't been but would you rather be DET with a chance every year or NJ with years of "wtf kind of team is this"?

I would rather my team rebuild once core players are over 32 years of age.

Being even a DET fringe playoff team is bad.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Yeah, they are a black hole team now. If I was a fan of that team, I would advocate moving Datsyuk and Zetterberg to a contender and rebuild. Not sure what they have left on their deals though in terms of years. Most contenders can't afford to take on those kind of deals unless the player will be a UFA at the end of the season.

I expect that the next lockout will either end guaranteed contracts, or cut back on the max length to five or six years.

GMs that recognize that their money is best spent by buying the UFA years or their most talented players just before they breakout will have the most success.

What about contracts with team/player options like basketball and baseball? That might be best for both parties

 

[KINGS17]

What about contracts with team/player options like basketball and baseball? That might be best for both parties

The NHL had these for quite some time. It sucked IMO.

Just pay the guy what he is worth for the next five years and get on with it. Let superior drafting, player development, organizational culture, and coaching rule the day.

 

[Fishhead]

Also ask yourself this about DET. How serious of a Cup threat have they been in the last Six years ?

2010 was probably the last year.

Yep. And the cap really didn't have an impact for the first couple years because of the rollbacks. Teams were eased into it. Now that it's having the desired effect, I doubt any team stays dominant for that long.

I really think the cap really took hold around 2008-2009. After that 2nd epic Penguins/Red Wings series, both teams kind of fell apart. In the past, Detroit would have just reloaded, but it wasn't really possible to the extent that they needed to contend. They are still a great organization at developing talent and finding gems in the draft, but they no longer can sign that one big UFA any more.

Since that 2009 cup final, the Kings, Blackhawks, and Bruins have taken 7 of the 12 spots in the SCF. Those are your three "dominant" teams right there, although Chicago is probably the only true dominant team.

We all see the writing on the wall though, as do Blackhawks fans. It's not going to last for much longer. Late picks that turn into stars are becoming ridiculously rare, there is just too much information transfer out there. There is a ton of public video out there on prospects, and while a scout can pick up key important things in person, it makes it much easier for teams to locate and hone in on their targets. The last late pick to really tear it up is Benn, it's super rare for a guy from the 3rd round on to turn into an all-star. There simply aren't any guys like that who slip to the later rounds to be taken by a current contender.

 

[theMajor]

According to Eklund...the Kings up'd their offer for big Buff and are the front runners. So I guess dean doesn't care about any future for the Kings.

I thought he wanted us to be like Detroit and be perennial contenders but we are more like Colorado of old. Good for a short term and sucky for awhile then good again then sucky.

I think they should hold onto the prospects they got and not trade for anymore UFAs.

IDK, I really would like to get inside Dean's head to see what he would say about the Sekera trade looking back on it. a first and a prospect for 16 games played and missing the playoffs left a sour taste in his mouth, I would assume. he's in an interesting spot now with Kopi/Lucic/TT/Pearson + everyone else needing new contracts in the next two seasons PLUS needing a defenseman. the rest of this season and the next are going to be a real test of his capabilities as a GM. Im anxious to see what happens. will he stand pat? will he load up and go win-now mode to tank later? will Futa take over if Dean burns out? so many questions