2015-2016 Roster Talk: East Coast Thinks We Suck Edition(MOD WARNING) post# 107

[SettlementRichie10]

The NHL had these for quite some time. It sucked IMO.

Just pay the guy what he is worth for the next five years and get on with it. Let superior drafting, player development, organizational culture, and coaching rule the day.

That's what is best for the fans, but not necessarily best for the players.

Remember, this is a job for them. Yes, we eat up all the "team first, my goal is to win a championship" rhetoric, but these players still care about getting paid, first and foremost, as would any of us. This is the only job most of these guys will ever have, and the PA will fight eternal against non-favorable, ownership leaning CBAs.

There was a time in hockey when ownership had the final say in everything, and it was terrible. The players were treated like ****, and the sport suffered because of that. I'm not advocating for an egalitarian ownership/employee dreamland, because that doesn't work, either. But the BoG has to make compromises, just like the PA. Eliminating guaranteed contracts is only taking money out of the PA's pocket, and they would surely counter with something like the UfA age being dropped to like 23 or something crazy. As they should. It's not the player's fault that a GM offers him a crazy deal. Eliminating guaranteed contracts is a get out of jail free card for ownership, and I don't think it's fair for the players.

If anything, if the BOG is really that hard up to free up cap dollars, they should allow one CBO every three years, or something like that. The player still gets paid whatever money they were originally offered in good faith, and the cap hit goes away. I just don't see how giving ownership the power to terminate their contractual obligations is good for anyone. It creates a hostile environment between employee and BOG.

 

[theMajor]

It's not the player's fault that a GM offers him a crazy deal. Eliminating guaranteed contracts is a get out of jail free card for ownership, and I don't think it's fair for the players.

so is it not the player's fault for not living up to their contract? I dont think its a 'get out of jail free' card at all. it keeps professionals responsible for performing and living up to their agreement. Im probably in the vast minority but I'd be ok with the NHL doing away with guaranteed contracts. raise the league minimum , offer everyone incentives/performance bonuses and call it done

 

[KingsFan7824]

More likely than not, it'll be a long time before the Kings have another chance to win 3 in 5. The variables that have to come together to win one Cup are fragile and rare. To win 2 in a short period of time, even more rare for any single franchise.

I would hope Lombardi is as in as he can be. Who cares about 5 years from now. 5 years ago, obviously you don't say that. Whatever was being rebuilt back then has been built, so go for it. It's just most likely never going to be this good again, no matter who the GM is, or who the players are.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think Dean realized that there is only one Detroit, and there will continue to be only one Detroit. They're an anomaly in professional sports. No team in any league has been that good for that long. They are the exception to the rule, not an attainable example.

NJ was dominant for a long, long time, and they eventually fell apart, too. I think Dean would want to emulate their model moreso than Detroit's. Lock up your core until they're old, go for broke as many years as you can. Eventually you're barren, but you likely have a few championships. NJ won three championships over the course of nine years with, more or less, the same small core of players, and a retool somewhere in the middle there. And then they fell apart.

Dean probably knows that's our best bet at this point. But yeah, Detroit is a pipe dream. They hit the lottery several times with these obscure, late round European picks. They exploited a pool of players not a lot of other teams had their eye on, and they got a little lucky at the same time. Lidstrom and Datsyuk are HOFers and they were drafted in the fifth and seventh rounds, respectively. That just doesn't happen.

To be honest, I don't think we're that far off the Detroit model now. Look at how long they went without first round picks because they drafted and developed guys deep. Granted, we're far past the era of buying free agent mercs at top prices, but the reason we are able to trade assets for players is because DL has typically locked them up, i.e. trading for Regehr but keeping him. The major strikeout in that regard so far was Sekera.

Just playing devil's advocate--if DL trades Kempe and a 2nd for Byfuglien, then finds a way to sign him for a few years, are we really that bad off? I think he's already had his gateway drug and we're about to find the answer to those questions

 

[rajuabju]

More likely than not, it'll be a long time before the Kings have another chance to win 3 in 5. The variables that have to come together to win one Cup are fragile and rare. To win 2 in a short period of time, even more rare for any single franchise.

I would hope Lombardi is as in as he can be. Who cares about 5 years from now. 5 years ago, obviously you don't say that. Whatever was being rebuilt back then has been built, so go for it. It's just most likely never going to be this good again, no matter who the GM is, or who the players are.

Agreed. 100%.

We have a window of another few years. After that, the long contracts (including Quicks) are all gonna be eating up enough cap space that we'll be in a major rebuild mode.

We need to go for it as much as possible. Thats why although I didnt like it, I didnt hate the Sekera trade last year, or the Lucic trade. DL is doing what he can to keep the engine running full speed.

Its why we need (or should) make a deal for another top 4D, so we arent relying so heavily on McNabb or Forbort in the playoffs. They will get exposed too often.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

To be honest, I don't think we're that far off the Detroit model now. Look at how long they went without first round picks because they drafted and developed guys deep. Granted, we're far past the era of buying free agent mercs at top prices, but the reason we are able to trade assets for players is because DL has typically locked them up, i.e. trading for Regehr but keeping him. The major strikeout in that regard so far was Sekera.

Just playing devil's advocate--if DL trades Kempe and a 2nd for Byfuglien, then finds a way to sign him for a few years, are we really that bad off? I think he's already had his gateway drug and we're about to find the answer to those questions

And if Lucic signs elsewhere, lost: the #1, which could have taken Kyle Connor, plus losing Martin Jones and Colin Miller. I would hope Kempe is not part of a Byfuglien deal, as the Kings have no high end offensive talent in the pipeline. Have hopes that Amadio can be a top 2 center. He seems to be really thriving. 47 pts in 32 games and no help in North Bay. The next guy there has 27 pts. It would be great to have Byfuglien, but at what cost?

 

[tsanuri]

IDK, I really would like to get inside Dean's head to see what he would say about the Sekera trade looking back on it. a first and a prospect for 16 games played and missing the playoffs left a sour taste in his mouth, I would assume. he's in an interesting spot now with Kopi/Lucic/TT/Pearson + everyone else needing new contracts in the next two seasons PLUS needing a defenseman. the rest of this season and the next are going to be a real test of his capabilities as a GM. Im anxious to see what happens. will he stand pat? will he load up and go win-now mode to tank later? will Futa take over if Dean burns out? so many questions

I think DL has an exit plan. He's moving farther up the team ladder and having Futa take over as GM. If that is not the case we'll lose Futa in the next few years. They made a new position for him this time to keep him. And I think made some promises that this is what will happen. And this year could be the last hurrah. Try to win the 3/5 and move up.

 

[Kingspiracy]

I think I'd rather Lombardi overpaid for a player that is locked up(contract wise not voynov wise) , if we're going to be moving more of our top end prospects. Target a guy with 2 or 3 years left or an rfa.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

I think I'd rather Lombardi overpaid for a player that is locked up(contract wise not voynov wise) , if we're going to be moving more of our top end prospects. Target a guy with 2 or 3 years left or an rfa.

This is my thoughts exactly. I'm okay if we go all out to win but I'd rather spend the trade chips on someone we can control for some years. Not spending on UFAs that are going to leave in a couple of months

 

[Trolfoli]

How many goals does Brown have to score to be trade-able?

On a more serious note I think what we're looking at is Lombardi going after a top 4 defender. Buff would probably be a good fit. I don't 100% like his game, but he can make a difference.

Kings could use a long term 3C solution. This is the only way I see Kempe moving. If it solves the 3C issue at an affordable cap hit for multiple years. Shore hasn't been able to check the offensive box yet.

Don't think Buff/rental would necessarily resign, but there are some other names that wouldn't surprise if Lombardi went after them in the offseason. The money to pick up a UFA would depend on if one or both of Lucic/Brown were back next year.

Now how can Lombardi land Buff and RyJo/E.Staal?

 

[Kingspiracy]

How bout Ryan Ellis? Nashville, always seem to have to have depth on the blueline. Similar contract to greenes. Could be Voynov light.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think I'd rather Lombardi overpaid for a player that is locked up(contract wise not voynov wise) , if we're going to be moving more of our top end prospects. Target a guy with 2 or 3 years left or an rfa.

I think so too but that's REALLY going to cost us. My pipe dreams beyond Buff are Shattenkirk/Parayko or as you mentioned Ellis.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

How bout Ryan Ellis? Nashville, always seem to have to have depth on the blueline. Similar contract to greenes. Could be Voynov light.

I've looked into that with Nashville fans. And if they are trading any of their dman, they want a #1C coming back. They also don't want to make us any stronger if they have to play us in the playoffs.

They would rather deal S. Jones for Nuge out of Edmonton, than move Ellis to us for a lesser package.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I've looked into that with Nashville fans. And if they are trading any of their dman, they want a #1C coming back. They also don't want to make us any stronger if they have to play us in the playoffs.

They would rather deal S. Jones for Nuge out of Edmonton, than move Ellis to us for a lesser package.

The GM has said as much, too.

I can't imagine they'd deal Ellis to us since they're more likely to move a big fish for a long term 1C solution, even though they say they won't do that (the org).

 

[Trolfoli]

When's Wiz due back for the Hurricanes? Lombardi likes his value guys coming off injury.


EDIT: Oh man... what if Philly waved Gagner to see if they could get rid of him before trading him with salary retained? Kings center depth is bad with Carter out and Lombardi was looking at Gagner in the past (but that may have been to put pressure on other trades). PANIC!!!!

On the bright side Gagner can put up points against the Hawks.

 

[YP44]

When's Wiz due back for the Hurricanes? Lombardi likes his value guys coming off injury.


EDIT: Oh man... what if Philly waved Gagner to see if they could get rid of him before trading him with salary retained? Kings center depth is bad with Carter out and Lombardi was looking at Gagner in the past (but that may have been to put pressure on other trades). PANIC!!!!

On the bright side Gagner can put up points against the Hawks.

Thought of this as well. With salary retained I would be interested without no sir

 

[gnarls barkley]

am I crazy in thinking that with King back we have enough stability in our forwards as it stands now? Idk, I think a great top 4 D could put us over the top more than a 3C. We would be absurdly hard to play against icing a blueline with someone like Byfuglien

 

[YP44]

I am guessing for Barrie we would have to say goodbye to A-Mart. Who has been a stud so far this year.
May still be worth it as he is younger, RH, and not a UFA. (also may have the higher ceiling)
Would suck to see Martinez go. and would kinda be robbing peter for paul sorta thing

 

[YP44]

am I crazy in thinking that with King back we have enough stability in our forwards as it stands now? Idk, I think a great top 4 D could put us over the top more than a 3C. We would be absurdly hard to play against icing a blueline with someone like Byfuglien

I agree a top 4 is more important than a 3C. However I do not want a UFA.
As perfect as Buff would likely fit in I do not see how LA could retain him, Lucic and Kopitar.
That's why I am eyeing up Pysyk..not even sure he is available but Buffalo is loaded on Right handed D

 

[mrkolice]

sutter is shuffling everything in last 5 games or so. some good things happened, and he made some bad things very visible. kopi-looch-gabby is a bad combo, that's a fact now. bottom6 had some fun, a lot of interesting things happened there. but everything is fluid. i suspect one bad game from a combo and sutter will break it - until such a policy brings results. lak runs like a river now, never the same. toi is also strange, kopi was given a small break, dd not there yet. sutter in the kitchen making a strong chili con carne, meat is there, spices as well, but it's slow cooking.

 

[YP44]

How many goals does Brown have to score to be trade-able?

On a more serious note I think what we're looking at is Lombardi going after a top 4 defender. Buff would probably be a good fit. I don't 100% like his game, but he can make a difference.

Kings could use a long term 3C solution. This is the only way I see Kempe moving. If it solves the 3C issue at an affordable cap hit for multiple years. Shore hasn't been able to check the offensive box yet.

Don't think Buff/rental would necessarily resign, but there are some other names that wouldn't surprise if Lombardi went after them in the offseason. The money to pick up a UFA would depend on if one or both of Lucic/Brown were back next year.

Now how can Lombardi land Buff and RyJo/E.Staal?

Maybe Edmonton looks at last nights game as a measuring stick and wants him.
Fayne for Brown. Fayne sucks but the cap space and contract length make it worth it IMO

 

[gnarls barkley]

I agree a top 4 is more important than a 3C. However I do not want a UFA.
As perfect as Buff would likely fit in I do not see how LA could retain him, Lucic and Kopitar.
That's why I am eyeing up Pysyk..not even sure he is available but Buffalo is loaded on Right handed D

i would rather a guy who already has a contract as well, but hey - if we're all in this year, Buff is at the top of my list

you don't want a completely blind eye to the future, but it's only going to get harder to win a cup going forward. Win them while you can, worry about the pitfalls and rebuilding efforts later.

 

[rajuabju]

sutter is shuffling everything in last 5 games or so. some good things happened, and he made some bad things very visible. kopi-looch-gabby is a bad combo, that's a fact now. bottom6 had some fun, a lot of interesting things happened there. but everything is fluid. i suspect one bad game from a combo and sutter will break it - until such a policy brings results. lak runs like a river now, never the same. toi is also strange, kopi was given a small break, dd not there yet. sutter in the kitchen making a strong chili con carne, meat is there, spices as well, but it's slow cooking.

Are you talking about hockey or working at Tito's?

 

[KINGS17]

That's what is best for the fans, but not necessarily best for the players.

Remember, this is a job for them. Yes, we eat up all the "team first, my goal is to win a championship" rhetoric, but these players still care about getting paid, first and foremost, as would any of us. This is the only job most of these guys will ever have, and the PA will fight eternal against non-favorable, ownership leaning CBAs.

There was a time in hockey when ownership had the final say in everything, and it was terrible. The players were treated like ****, and the sport suffered because of that. I'm not advocating for an egalitarian ownership/employee dreamland, because that doesn't work, either. But the BoG has to make compromises, just like the PA. Eliminating guaranteed contracts is only taking money out of the PA's pocket, and they would surely counter with something like the UfA age being dropped to like 23 or something crazy. As they should. It's not the player's fault that a GM offers him a crazy deal. Eliminating guaranteed contracts is a get out of jail free card for ownership, and I don't think it's fair for the players.

If anything, if the BOG is really that hard up to free up cap dollars, they should allow one CBO every three years, or something like that. The player still gets paid whatever money they were originally offered in good faith, and the cap hit goes away. I just don't see how giving ownership the power to terminate their contractual obligations is good for anyone. It creates a hostile environment between employee and BOG.

Since we pay the bills, we should be the ones that get the most consideration from the owners.

I don't see the elimination of guaranteed contracts as a get out of jail free card. I see them as a player getting fired when he is no longer performing to the level expected for the compensation he is receiving.

Why does a player that is performing need a guaranteed contract?

 

[YP44]

Since we pay the bills, we should be the ones that get the most consideration from the owners.

I don't see the elimination of guaranteed contracts as a get out of jail free card. I see them as a player getting fired when he is no longer performing to the level expected for the compensation he is receiving.

Why does a player that is performing need a guaranteed contract?

well most of these players come up through juniors and do not have a college education to fall back on. So if they were to get "fired" they would have nothing to fall back on. These guys have given their lively hood for the game, and true it is something that most fans would gladly switch spots with, but doesn't mean they can just be cast away when a team is done with them.
You are ok to have your opinion on the guaranteed contract but this is one hf-issue that I would side with the players.
I say HF-issue cause I have not hear it as an issue anywhere else.