2015-2016 Roster Talk: East Coast Thinks We Suck Edition(MOD WARNING) post# 107

[Nodoughtyboutit]

gabby: the main question is where to put him. it was always kopi and gabby, and it was a struggle lately, and then tyler and looch came in big time. gabby is losing his role in the 1st line. with whom should he play? in normal circumstances i'll put him with carter, but that's not an option now.

With Carter out and with how well the Kopitar and Lewis lines have been playing the last couple games, that leaves him with a line centered by either Shore, Nolan, Weal or some other call up/ 4th line plug in which seems like a horrible situation for him with how his season is going so far. But maybe for whatever reason it fires him up or there's some chemistry there.

However when Carter comes back I think thats the natural place for him...

TT/Kopi/Lucic
Gabs/Carter/Pearson
Brown/Lewis/King
And Shore with some combo of Nolan / Mersch / Weal/ AA/ Clifford as our foward lines.

What worries me is if he doesnt get it going with Carter or Kopitar. It makes me wonder if Dean will trade him to help with cap for another RD

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think Gabby Carter Pearson could be great. Got speedy guys that can press with him as well as defensive presence, board work, and two other puck carriers with underrated vision.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

I think Gabby Carter Pearson could be great. Got speedy guys that can press with him as well as defensive presence, board work, and two other puck carriers with underrated vision.

I think it's a good combination. Gaborik has been playing better of late, skating much better and overall play better. Shore has not been able to get him pucks or make plays. Shore is good defensively and on faceoffs, but will never be a top 2 center.
His pass to Brown the other night was awesome, but it's not something he does very often. Top 2 centers need to create a lot more than he's capable.

Gabby will start producing more, with Carter or Kopi.

 

[KingsFan7824]

One thing you have to give the Kings credit for in the big picture is how they've managed to do well despite this or that guy not being great sometimes. Go back to 2013, and Kopitar, Brown, and Doughty all had less than great playoff performances, but they still made it to the 3rd round. I still don't know how they outscored Chicago in the 14 conference final, and averaged 4 goals per game, with 0 goals from Kopitar. Or being able to work around Brown's contract up to this point. Or not getting a whole lot from Gaborik this year, supposed to be a 1st line guy and all, but still sitting 4th overall in the league, and 3rd overall in point%, all while being bad at home against the worst division in the league.

 

[cyclones22]

Go back to 2013, and Kopitar, Brown, and Doughty all had less than great playoff performances, but they still made it to the 3rd round. I still don't know how they outscored Chicago in the 14 conference final, and averaged 4 goals per game, with 0 goals from Kopitar. Or being able to work around Brown's contract up to this point. Or not getting a whole lot from Gaborik this year, supposed to be a 1st line guy and all, but still sitting 4th overall in the league, and 3rd overall in point%, all while being bad at home against the worst division in the league.

Coincidentally, all 3 of those guys were playing with bad knees/ankles. I don't care what Kopi says, getting hurt overseas prior to the lockout ending, he never looked right the entire season and had virtually no jump. Brown was playing with a bad ligament and Doughty I think sprained both ankles. That being said, they did gut their way to a WCF after all that. And thanks Bolland for head-shotting Richards early in the series.

 

[mrkolice]

carter might be back soon, laki's report sounds optimistic. for now maybe gaborik with shore and brown, those two were a very good combo all season long, with only goals missing, i'd like to see that line just for the sake of curiosity and it would mean just switching brown and pearson. and then gaborik carter pearson, yes. some sweet dilemmas for sutter, with so many guys in form.

 

[YP44]

With Carter out and with how well the Kopitar and Lewis lines have been playing the last couple games, that leaves him with a line centered by either Shore, Nolan, Weal or some other call up/ 4th line plug in which seems like a horrible situation for him with how his season is going so far. But maybe for whatever reason it fires him up or there's some chemistry there.

However when Carter comes back I think thats the natural place for him...

TT/Kopi/Lucic
Gabs/Carter/Pearson
Brown/Lewis/King
And Shore with some combo of Nolan / Mersch / Weal/ AA/ Clifford as our foward lines.

What worries me is if he doesnt get it going with Carter or Kopitar. It makes me wonder if Dean will trade him to help with cap for another RD

you have your lefts and rights mixd up...but I agree with those lines. Maybe switch Lucic and Pearson

 

[Fishhead]

King is back with a vengeance. Once Carter is back it's going to be eerily like 2012 where guys could slot in the proper spots. My 3rd line center worries are fading as this team gels, and really a vet for the defense might be the only requirement. The 3rd line has been fantastic and Nolan and Andy have really picked it up since Mersch joined that line. This team is rollin'

 

[King'sPawn]

King is back with a vengeance. Once Carter is back it's going to be eerily like 2012 where guys could slot in the proper spots. My 3rd line center worries are fading as this team gels, and really a vet for the defense might be the only requirement. The 3rd line has been fantastic and Nolan and Andy have really picked it up since Mersch joined that line. This team is rollin'

I can't stop looking at the image.

 

[Trolfoli]

King is back with a vengeance. Once Carter is back it's going to be eerily like 2012 where guys could slot in the proper spots. My 3rd line center worries are fading as this team gels, and really a vet for the defense might be the only requirement. The 3rd line has been fantastic and Nolan and Andy have really picked it up since Mersch joined that line. This team is rollin'

Not at all. The end of the Philly game today we saw Lewis going up against Giroux. I was not happy about that, can't imagine Sutter felt that great about it either. Kings need a strong defensive vet center rental... probably just a rental at this point... heading into the playoffs with Lewis/Shore 3/4C is a mistake.

Was also looking at the Byfuglien UFA estimates on what some stupid GM would throw at him. Figure someone will throw a 7 year deal at him... He'll probably start to decline well before that contract is up.

The next thought was how many defenders the team will be able to protect in the expansion draft. What about say targeting Byfuglien or a guy like him, resigning after this year to some stupid contract, then after the next year leave him unprotected in the expansion draft? Rent him for 1 year, sign to contract and walk away after the next playoffs. Kinda a dick move, but you'd get Byfuglien (or a guy like him) for 2 playoffs and then be free of the contract the same time Pearson/Toffoli are up for a new contract. Just have to make sure that the contract isn't so crazy an expansion team won't touch it.

 

[Omni Owl]

Not at all. The end of the Philly game today we saw Lewis going up against Giroux. I was not happy about that, can't imagine Sutter felt that great about it either. Kings need a strong defensive vet center rental... probably just a rental at this point... heading into the playoffs with Lewis/Shore 3/4C is a mistake.

Was also looking at the Byfuglien UFA estimates on what some stupid GM would throw at him. Figure someone will throw a 7 year deal at him... He'll probably start to decline well before that contract is up.

The next thought was how many defenders the team will be able to protect in the expansion draft. What about say targeting Byfuglien or a guy like him, resigning after this year to some stupid contract, then after the next year leave him unprotected in the expansion draft? Rent him for 1 year, sign to contract and walk away after the next playoffs. Kinda a dick move, but you'd get Byfuglien (or a guy like him) for 2 playoffs and then be free of the contract the same time Pearson/Toffoli are up for a new contract. Just have to make sure that the contract isn't so crazy an expansion team won't touch it.

I agree about the 3C spot. I think we can get away with Shore/Lewis at 3C during the regular season, but the playoffs are a different ballgame. Chicago acquired Vermette at the deadline last year, which really helped them down the middle and gave some depth. I wouldn't mind a guy like him or Dubi going into the post season this year.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

King is back with a vengeance. Once Carter is back it's going to be eerily like 2012 where guys could slot in the proper spots. My 3rd line center worries are fading as this team gels, and really a vet for the defense might be the only requirement. The 3rd line has been fantastic and Nolan and Andy have really picked it up since Mersch joined that line. This team is rollin'

You deserve some kind of award or medal for this

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Have to imagine, at the end of a playoff game at home with the matchups that Sutter isn't letting Giroux get away with that matchup. Still think the 3C 'issue' is being overstated. Shore has proven to be one of the best defensive performers in the league in his limited time and Lewis is better than most minus his faceoff bumbles. In fact, if there's one thing those two DO provide, it's defense. A guy like Dubinsky would be an all-around upgrade to be sure but that's because on most teams he would be a 2C. Vermette is the same offensive black hole these guys are, for example.

 

[damacles1156]

Shore/Lewis are not going to cost the Kings on defense at all. They are both strong 200ft players. Shore is a -8 on the season, but context, it's not due to him being a poor defensive center.

The only thing the Kings lack out of their bottom Centers is production, welcome to every team in the League. There is no complete team in this cap crunch. Washington Capitals have holes right now.

 

[Trolfoli]

Have to imagine, at the end of a playoff game at home with the matchups that Sutter isn't letting Giroux get away with that matchup. Still think the 3C 'issue' is being overstated. Shore has proven to be one of the best defensive performers in the league in his limited time and Lewis is better than most minus his faceoff bumbles. In fact, if there's one thing those two DO provide, it's defense. A guy like Dubinsky would be an all-around upgrade to be sure but that's because on most teams he would be a 2C. Vermette is the same offensive black hole these guys are, for example.

It's shocking, but I really don't care about the numbers. Would you put Shore out in the 3rd period with a 1 goal lead with Towes/Kane on the ice? The answer is no.

Can Lewis/Shore get it done against the best in the league? Lewis in the last playoffs ended up getting benched in a game 7 because he wasn't good enough defensively and was getting destroyed by Kane.

The need for a 3C isn't being over stated. The Kings are trying to win the championship, you don't do that with a rookie or Lewis at 3C.

About Sutter not letting Giroux get away with that matchup come playoffs... Kopitar had just come off the ice, Carter's out, so that left Lewis. Even if Carter isn't out he isn't the best defensive center in the world. It would be nice to have an option other then Kopitar for defensive draws. Also tells you that Sutter had more faith in Lewis on that draw then Shore.

Don't worry Lombardi's all in and has a bunch of cap space.

 

[damacles1156]

It's shocking, but I really don't care about the numbers. Would you put Shore out in the 3rd period with a 1 goal lead with Towes/Kane on the ice? The answer is no.

Can Lewis/Shore get it done against the best in the league? Lewis in the last playoffs ended up getting benched in a game 7 because he wasn't good enough defensively and was getting destroyed by Kane.

The need for a 3C isn't being over stated. The Kings are trying to win the championship, you don't do that with a rookie or Lewis at 3C.

About Sutter not letting Giroux get away with that matchup come playoffs... Kopitar had just come off the ice, Carter's out, so that left Lewis. Even if Carter isn't out he isn't the best defensive center in the world. It would be nice to have an option other then Kopitar for defensive draws. Also tells you that Sutter had more faith in Lewis on that draw then Shore.

Don't worry Lombardi's all in and has a bunch of cap space.

There is not a single complete team in the league, the days of the 2010 Hawks,2012 Kings are rare, super rare.

No one is trading you their good center for your trash, and or crappy picks.

 

[damacles1156]

Did we miss the entire 2014 WCF ? where Sutter got to destroy the Hawks bottom centers with Pearson/Carter/Toffoli ? Toews had to leave the ice at some point, and when he did the Hawks got destroyed defensively, Cause Saad was feasting on Richards, it was a trade off that the Kings won.

There are no complete teams in this Cap era League. When a complete team pops up, it's due to luck pretty much, Your stars aren't overpaid (yet), and your ELC draft picks are out of this world.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's shocking, but I really don't care about the numbers. Would you put Shore out in the 3rd period with a 1 goal lead with Towes/Kane on the ice? The answer is no.

Can Lewis/Shore get it done against the best in the league? Lewis in the last playoffs ended up getting benched in a game 7 because he wasn't good enough defensively and was getting destroyed by Kane.

The need for a 3C isn't being over stated. The Kings are trying to win the championship, you don't do that with a rookie or Lewis at 3C.

About Sutter not letting Giroux get away with that matchup come playoffs... Kopitar had just come off the ice, Carter's out, so that left Lewis. Even if Carter isn't out he isn't the best defensive center in the world. It would be nice to have an option other then Kopitar for defensive draws. Also tells you that Sutter had more faith in Lewis on that draw then Shore.

Don't worry Lombardi's all in and has a bunch of cap space.

Okay see what you're saying about the situation.

I guess I'm saying I don't feel comfortable with ANY 3C in the league vs. that matchup.

There's not a significant DEFENSIVE difference between Shore/Lewis and Vermette/Dubinsky imo. Shore you can at least argue it's experience, Lewis not so much. Hell you could have Hanzal at 3C here and I wouldn't feel great about it.

Gone are the days of the John Madden eraser type, imo. You need guys in that role who can play possession against the big boys and Shore/Lewis are capable of that.

As I said above I'm not totally against an 'upgrade' and I know we have the cap to do it but I just respectfully disagree that our motivation for getting better at 3C would be because Toews vs. Lewis would be any more lopsided than Toews vs. Vermette (or the former years' Paul Gaustad, Sami Pahlsson, Manny Malhotra, etc.). All season our 3rd line has been the best possession line in the league. YOu have to consider their minutes, but that means they're flat-out destroying their matchups night in and night out. Doesn't seem like a bigger problem to me than defensive top-4 depth.

 

[damacles1156]

Also consider the other teams Center depth.

There is no way Chicago is going to put Toews against anyone else other than Kopitar come playoff time.

It would be suicide for Quenneville to let Kopitar/Carter run wild.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

I can't stop looking at the image.

whilst stoned?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Clifford still not even skating in the optional skate today as per Rosen.

Also consider the other teams Center depth.

There is no way Chicago is going to put Toews against anyone else other than Kopitar come playoff time.

It would be suicide for Quenneville to let Kopitar/Carter run wild.

On top of that if we're making a trade just to cover the situation where our entire top-six is tired but theirs isn't in the last couple minutes of a game where we need to D up something else went wrong.

Again I think we can improve there, but if we have to roll Brown-Lewis-King because of sudden death of top six, Lewis is the guy i'm least worried about defensively. He has the speed and tenacity to be a total pain in the ass. King has size and positioning. Brown is a defensive wildcard.

 

[Trolfoli]

Did we miss the entire 2014 WCF ? where Sutter got to destroy the Hawks bottom centers with Pearson/Carter/Toffoli ? Toews had to leave the ice at some point, and when he did the Hawks got destroyed defensively, Cause Saad was feasting on Richards, it was a trade off that the Kings won.

There are no complete teams in this Cap era League. When a complete team pops up, it's due to luck pretty much, Your stars aren't overpaid (yet), and your ELC draft picks are out of this world.

What you're saying about the Hawks? So we might have to put up with Lewis/Shore's shortcomings by exploiting other parts of the Hawks roster... or Lombardi could take a chance and bring in an upgrade? It seems you just want to stay put because you're afraid of giving up assets. I just don't get it. There are players out there that are better then both Shore/Lewis, what's the problem with bringing someone in and moving Shore to 4C and Lewis to the wing?

I guarantee Lombardi has his wishlist of guys he'd like to add at the deadline, no point in worrying about it. Just have to wait a little while longer to see what Lombardi pulls off.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

What you're saying about the Hawks? So we might have to put up with Lewis/Shore's shortcomings by exploiting other parts of the Hawks roster... or Lombardi could take a chance and bring in an upgrade? It seems you just want to stay put because you're afraid of giving up assets. I just don't get it. There are players out there that are better then both Shore/Lewis, what's the problem with bringing someone in and moving Shore to 4C and Lewis to the wing?

I guarantee Lombardi has his wishlist of guys he'd like to add at the deadline, no point in worrying about it. Just have to wait a little while longer to see what Lombardi pulls off.

There's nothing wrong with it per se, it's just a balancing game of assets vs. value, and if you're making the move simply because you don't trust Lewis or Shore, I'll just have to agree to disagree that there are players out there that are far more defensively dependable to the point that it requires giving up assets.

 

[Trolfoli]

On top of that if we're making a trade just to cover the situation where our entire top-six is tired but theirs isn't in the last couple minutes of a game where we need to D up something else went wrong.

Again I think we can improve there, but if we have to roll Brown-Lewis-King because of sudden death of top six, Lewis is the guy i'm least worried about defensively. He has the speed and tenacity to be a total pain in the ass. King has size and positioning. Brown is a defensive wildcard.

It's more about the road matches. If you have to shelter both your 3rd, 4th lines it's an issue.

I don't get why the thought of bringing in depth at the center position is such a big issue for some people. That should be pretty standard for a playoff run?

 

[Trolfoli]

There's nothing wrong with it per se, it's just a balancing game of assets vs. value, and if you're making the move simply because you don't trust Lewis or Shore, I'll just have to agree to disagree that there are players out there that are far more defensively dependable to the point that it requires giving up assets.

It's a risk, sometimes it works out (Carter/Gaborik) sometimes it doesn't. When the team is playing like it has been (and not just because the Pacific is garbage) It may be time to take a risk or 2... especially before the expansion draft hits and Toffoli/Pearson's new contracts.