2015-2016 Roster Talk: East Coast Thinks We Suck Edition(MOD WARNING) post# 107

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's more about the road matches. If you have to shelter both your 3rd, 4th lines it's an issue.

I don't get why the thought of bringing in depth at the center position is such a big issue for some people. That should be pretty standard for a playoff run?

It's not a big deal, you just have yet to answer the question--who DOESNT shelter their 4th line? And why do you think our third needs sheltering--who has better?

I agree it's a potential upgrade spot, and bringing in a Duby type would undoubtedly give us depth rivaling our 2014 team at C, but I think you're also selling short Lewis and/or Shore, one of which is a reliable vet, one of which is still growing and soaking new things in every day. I just don't see us using our limited assets to improve that position when there's a more glaring need elsewhere.

 

[cyclones22]

It's not a big deal, you just have yet to answer the question--who DOESNT shelter their 4th line? And why do you think our third needs sheltering--who has better?

I agree it's a potential upgrade spot, and bringing in a Duby type would undoubtedly give us depth rivaling our 2014 team at C, but I think you're also selling short Lewis and/or Shore, one of which is a reliable vet, one of which is still growing and soaking new things in every day. I just don't see us using our limited assets to improve that position when there's a more glaring need elsewhere.

And as usual, easier said than done when trying to trade for some 2C on someone else's roster and trying to slot them in at 3C on our team. That being said, the Kings are great on the road so far this season, which has ALWAYS been a staple of the great Kings teams of 2012 and 2014. That to me shows that when on the road, our bottom six is easier to exploit on paper than on the actual ice with home teams getting last change.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

And as usual, easier said than done when trying to trade for some 2C on someone else's roster and trying to slot them in at 3C on our team. That being said, the Kings are great on the road so far this season, which has ALWAYS been a staple of the great Kings teams of 2012 and 2014. That to me shows that when on the road, our bottom six is easier to exploit on paper than on the actual ice with home teams getting last change.

And really the third line hasn't been exploited this season except when it's got Andreoff. As much as we like how he's developed, Jason Lewis has a great writeup on how far he has to go. Though to be fair to Andreoff he's been asked to play over his head with matchups AND in a position he's never really played in Center.

It's the fourth line that was initially--and still is sometimes--a liability, but that's going to happen when you have a stud like Giroux matching up against, well, fourth liners. Though that would be mitigated heavily if Shore was there.

 

[rajuabju]

Both the 3rd and 4th lines have improved dramatically with the callup of Mersch and Kings return because its allowed players to be slotted better. And I expect it to improve even further when Carter returns and Shore goes back down to the bottom 6 and Nolan is likely sitting.

I think we're mainly set with our forward lines. Would be surprised if we made any moves there unless its something really minor like moving Nolan or Weal for a pick or prospect. But I dont expect to tinker with our top 12 much.

On D, I think everyone is hoping we pick up a RHD who can play top4 minutes. We'll see.

 

[Trolfoli]

And as usual, easier said than done when trying to trade for some 2C on someone else's roster and trying to slot them in at 3C on our team. That being said, the Kings are great on the road so far this season, which has ALWAYS been a staple of the great Kings teams of 2012 and 2014. That to me shows that when on the road, our bottom six is easier to exploit on paper than on the actual ice with home teams getting last change.

Playoffs is a different beast all together. Just look at the work the Sharks did to jump out to an 0-3 lead. Teams really focus in on weaknesses a lot more.

Kopi/Carter/Lewis/Shore just isn't up to my standards.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Playoffs is a different beast all together. Just look at the work the Sharks did to jump out to an 0-3 lead. Teams really focus in on weaknesses a lot more.

Kopi/Carter/Lewis/Shore just isn't up to my standards.

You still haven't answered my questions above so I'll rephrase based on this post--how is it a weakness? When were they exposed? Why do you think a jump from King-brown-Lewis to King-brown-Dubinsky is so massive, especially defensively?

The Sharks jumped out to a 3-0 lead because they played pond hockey offense to counter out systematic approach all around, not because Trevor Lewis is a weakness that needs improvement. I don't think you can compare system failure to player inadequacy

 

[Reclamation Project]

Dubinsky is a given now that Richards is gone.

 

[Reaper45]

Maybe it's just me, but I think I'd move Clifford before Nolan.

 

[Trolfoli]

You still haven't answered my questions above so I'll rephrase based on this post--how is it a weakness? When were they exposed? Why do you think a jump from King-brown-Lewis to King-brown-Dubinsky is so massive, especially defensively?

The Sharks jumped out to a 3-0 lead because they played pond hockey offense to counter out systematic approach all around, not because Trevor Lewis is a weakness that needs improvement. I don't think you can compare system failure to player inadequacy

Ott, Shore 5 mins or so of 5v5 ice time and -2...

The point is there are players out there that are better then Lewis/Shore. Then there's the whole 6 combined goals between them (2 of the empty netters if I remember right)... Maybe the Kings can find someone that can play as good or better defense, then bring something else as well, vet, size, grit, scoring for the cost of some picks/prospects?

Wasn't blaming the Sharks game on Lewis. Just an illustration of how things change come playoff time.

 

[Cook24]

Clifford + pick for Helm.

Lucic-Kopitar-Toffoli
King-Carter-Gaborik
Pearson-Helm-Brown
Mersch-Shore-Lewis
Nolan/Andreoff

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm just going to have to respectfully disagree given that Doughty was -3 in the same game and a 5 minute sample size in a game when the entire team took a dump isn't representative of what Shore brings.

 

[King'sPawn]

You still haven't answered my questions above so I'll rephrase based on this post--how is it a weakness? When were they exposed? Why do you think a jump from King-brown-Lewis to King-brown-Dubinsky is so massive, especially defensively?

The Sharks jumped out to a 3-0 lead because they played pond hockey offense to counter out systematic approach all around, not because Trevor Lewis is a weakness that needs improvement. I don't think you can compare system failure to player inadequacy

Personally, I never think there's a problem with cheap veteran depth in a role come playoff time.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Personally, I never think there's a problem with cheap veteran depth in a role come playoff time.

I agree with that and I'm not FULLY disagreeing with what Trolfoli is onto but what qualifies as 'cheap' veteran depth? In other words, what assets are we giving up for something that should be more than a marginal improvement?

Dubinsky certainly wouldn't be cheap; what else is out there that's not going to cost us Kempe or something yet be a significant depth improvement?

Edit: and he's getting 5.85/yr until beyond 2020...I guess Kempe as a start for Dubinsky would be fair if you think he'll hold up anyway, but...just spitballing.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Every single season Clifford's name is thrown around in the rumor mill. He just signed a five year deal. When will it end?

Anyways, I wouldn't be shocked if he's put on LTIR in the next few weeks. He looks nowhere near returning any time soon. Kings don't really need the space though.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Every single season Clifford's name is thrown around in the rumor mill. He just signed a five year deal. When will it end?

Anyways, I wouldn't be shocked if he's put on LTIR in the next few weeks. He looks nowhere near returning any time soon. Kings don't really need the space though.

Well put rp and ty for saying it

 

[member 88115]

When was the last time DL traded for a bottom six forward as a rental (or bottom six in General). He likes his in house players there. Our Bottom six is fine with Shore, Lewis and Andreoff rotation.

A bottom pairing most likely to happen since Forbert (who has played a lot better during the winning streak) and Erhoff have struggled. Im not expecting a big deadline deal because that already happen with the Lucic deal. He went all in and looks to be paying off. Now he might try a McNabb type deal if the he has an opportunity.

Now the offseason might be interesting with Kopitar and Lucic looking to be in the need to resign status. Hopefully some of the big contracts have a great playoff run to pump the tires on the their trade value.

 

[Reclamation Project]

I got your back. I've never considered Clifford and King to be comparable players. They play different games. I've always felt King was more of a utility player whereas Clifford was more of an established bottom 6 one. People are forgetting that Clifford is a beast in the playoffs also. I worry about his health though. He's taken more than a few head shots. Hedman not even getting a call should tell you everything you need to know about the Department of Player Safety. Trying to get that hit out of the game my ass. That hit was extremely dirty and blatant.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I got your back. I've never considered Clifford and King to be comparable players. They play different games. I've always felt King was more of a utility player whereas Clifford was more of an established bottom 6 one. People are forgetting that Clifford is a beast in the playoffs also. I worry about his health though. He's taken more than a few head shots. Hedman not even getting a call should tell you everything you need to know about the Department of Player Safety. Trying to get that hit out of the game my ass. That hit was extremely dirty and blatant.

I totally agree and i am worried about his health as well. I love clifford physical game and puts up points relative to the amount of mins he plays. I was hoping his recent play on the pk and showing he can skate with the puck would help him get away from the fighting.

 

[King'sPawn]

I agree with that and I'm not FULLY disagreeing with what Trolfoli is onto but what qualifies as 'cheap' veteran depth? In other words, what assets are we giving up for something that should be more than a marginal improvement?

Dubinsky certainly wouldn't be cheap; what else is out there that's not going to cost us Kempe or something yet be a significant depth improvement?

Edit: and he's getting 5.85/yr until beyond 2020...I guess Kempe as a start for Dubinsky would be fair if you think he'll hold up anyway, but...just spitballing.

I understand. For me, a cheap veteran would be one who costs a B prospect/3rd round pick, and with a price tag of $1-3 million.

I think Dubinsky is too costly.

 

[KINGS17]

Every single season Clifford's name is thrown around in the rumor mill. He just signed a five year deal. When will it end?

Anyways, I wouldn't be shocked if he's put on LTIR in the next few weeks. He looks nowhere near returning any time soon. Kings don't really need the space though.

The Kings' brass like both Clifford and King. I don't see either of them being moved.

 

[Fishhead]

The Kings' brass like both Clifford and King. I don't see either of them being moved.

Trying to think back when the last time the Kings have traded a roster regular during a season. Probably the Jack Johnson trade. Before that, maybe O'Sullivan?

They've traded guys like Boyle, Preissing, Purcell, Frattin, Scrivens, etc. - guys that never really had a spot on the team outside of the short term. The Kings are far more active in the off-season, I don't expect any true roster players to be traded this year, either. Obviously a guy like Weal could go, but that's about it.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Trying to think back when the last time the Kings have traded a roster regular during a season. Probably the Jack Johnson trade. Before that, maybe O'Sullivan?

They've traded guys like Boyle, Preissing, Purcell, Frattin, Scrivens, etc. - guys that never really had a spot on the team outside of the short term. The Kings are far more active in the off-season, I don't expect any true roster players to be traded this year, either. Obviously a guy like Weal could go, but that's about it.

i agree with what your saying but i think we have a jj sorta situation with Mersch I honestly think hes going to push one of King Pearson or Clifford off the roster. Believe it or not people i don't even think/want it to be King I honestly think Pearson will be the odd one out only because he holds the value to get back a upgrade that we need. Weather it is a better 3 c or a top 4 d Pearson is the best bait we have. He gets less mins then King and will get a huge raise in the next season As long as Dean thinks he can resign Lucic i would be ok trading pearson for a upgrade at 3c or 4d

 

[Winger23]

i agree with what your saying but i think we have a jj sorta situation with Mersch I honestly think hes going to push one of King Pearson or Clifford off the roster. Believe it or not people i don't even think/want it to be King I honestly think Pearson will be the odd one out only because he holds the value to get back a upgrade that we need. Weather it is a better 3 c or a top 4 d Pearson is the best bait we have. He gets less mins then King and will get a huge raise in the next season As long as Dean thinks he can resign Lucic i would be ok trading pearson for a upgrade at 3c or 4d

Here we go again....

Pearson is not going to be moved.

 

[Fishhead]

I don't think Pearson would be moved either, he produces at the same clip as Lucic and is much cheaper. Others are far more likely to be moved.

It won't happen during the season, though. Clifford probably isn't going to be back until after the deadline so it won't be an issue this year. If there is a trade it's probably going to be Clifford (or Nolan). King only has one year after this left on his deal which diminishes his value, so trading him doesn't make sense. Also, don't forget Lewis' deal is up as well. I think the Kings absolutely want to retain him and will do everything they can to, but that's a possible roster spot even if it's unlikely.

The Kings can trade Weal, go with the status quo for a year, then make a decision on King/Mersch/Clifford/Nolan/Andy.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Here we go again....

Pearson is not going to be moved.

That is your opinion which is fine I have my own which i'm entitled to. We will see what happens Agree to disagree is something we need to do in this area