2015-2016 Roster Talk: East Coast Thinks We Suck Edition(MOD WARNING) post# 107

[rajuabju]

So if you look at the money part of it...

Greene if traded/retired is 2,500,000
Clifford if traded is 1,600,000
Ehrhoff is let go is 1,500,000
Richards money drops down so you get an extra 1,550,000

You get 7,150,000 off the cap to spend on raises for the UFAs.

That's not even including the cap going up. Although I don't put much into the cap because it could be anywhere. Some people believe a 3m raise at this point but I've read/heard that GMs are thinking that if it's over a 1m raise would be a miracle.

It's looking like there might be enough money to go around for Kopitar, Lucic and the other UFAs/RFAs (Lewis, McNabb, McBain, Forbort, Enroth)

If ALL (or least 3 of 4) of those things happen, then maybe we can re-sign Lucic. But I think a lot of it hinges on Greene & Clifford situations.

But if that happens, and Looch is going to want a long term (6+ years) deal, then prepared for everyone to be whining about his contract in year 3 or 4.

 

[Fishhead]

We will be drunk on cups in 4 years. Win now, damn the consequences!

 

[YP44]

So if you look at the money part of it...

Greene if traded/retired is 2,500,000
Clifford if traded is 1,600,000
Ehrhoff is let go is 1,500,000
Richards money drops down so you get an extra 1,550,000

You get 7,150,000 off the cap to spend on raises for the UFAs.

That's not even including the cap going up. Although I don't put much into the cap because it could be anywhere. Some people believe a 3m raise at this point but I've read/heard that GMs are thinking that if it's over a 1m raise would be a miracle.

It's looking like there might be enough money to go around for Kopitar, Lucic and the other UFAs/RFAs (Lewis, McNabb, McBain, Forbort, Enroth)

But you would need to pay another d if you lose both Greene and ehrhoff (even at legaue Min $900K).
Same goes for clifford.
It will be verytight

 

[YP44]

The NYI would laugh at that offer for Hamonic their GM has made it clear he won't move him without getting a replacement for him. Think Muzzin and there is no chance in hell I would want us to do that as Muzz is a stud.

Agree. Althogh maybe Martinez ++ could be more reasonable.
ot matter what though why would Hamonic waive to be further from his home when the reason he requested a deal was to be closer?
I do not think Hamonic gets moved till the draft.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Agree. Althogh maybe Martinez ++ could be more reasonable.
ot matter what though why would Hamonic waive to be further from his home when the reason he requested a deal was to be closer?
I do not think Hamonic gets moved till the draft.

Hamonic is not that much better then Martinez maybe something small like weal or a 3rd. This doesn't matter thou because he isn't going to california There gm already said no to the ducks. He wants to play as close to winnipeg as he can La is actually further but lets not this stop us lol

 

[SettlementRichie10]

We will be drunk on cups in 4 years. Win now, damn the consequences!

I'm sort of at that point, too. Win another Cup, and I'll deal with whatever cellar dwelling seasons come down the road. It's not like we're not used to it.

 

[Jeff18]

If we had Hammer on the Kings, he would easily be our 2nd best defender.

Not even close; we have this guy named Muzzin on this team, might want to look him up. We need a Greene replacement, which Hamonic would be more equivalent to.

Defense isn't even a problem for us (we are number 1 in the league!), no need to give up valuable assets yet.

 

[Ron*]

Agree. Althogh maybe Martinez ++ could be more reasonable.
ot matter what though why would Hamonic waive to be further from his home when the reason he requested a deal was to be closer?
I do not think Hamonic gets moved till the draft.

LOL here we go again with Martinez trade talk. ****ing amazing!

 

[YP44]

LOL here we go again with Martinez trade talk. ****ing amazing!

for a legit top 4 RHD on a good contract...YES
A-Mart has converted me into a believe but come on. You have to give to get.

 

[Omni Owl]

No way Hamonic is being traded now that Boychuk went down.

 

[gnarls barkley]

why the hell would we move AMart just to get a guy who's basically around the same level as him? the whole point is to get MORE depth for the blueline, not just upgrade one guy...and i'm skeptical that Hamonic is even better than AMart tbh, let alone the fact that NYI isn't going to trade him right now.

i agree with other sentiments - damn the future, get what you need to win the cup in here now. Trade the farm if you have to, when else are you gonna get a shot this good at 3 in 5? If they win this year, they can practically let the whole team walk and start fresh for all I care. Cmon guys, do you want this team to reach another level of greatness, or do you just want to sit around and jerk off to our prospect pool and cap space?

 

[Steve Zissou]

Right on HF posters! Right on.

 

[Kingspiracy]

why the hell would we move AMart just to get a guy who's basically around the same level as him? the whole point is to get MORE depth for the blueline, not just upgrade one guy...and i'm skeptical that Hamonic is even better than AMart tbh, let alone the fact that NYI isn't going to trade him right now.

i agree with other sentiments - damn the future, get what you need to win the cup in here now. Trade the farm if you have to, when else are you gonna get a shot this good at 3 in 5? If they win this year, they can practically let the whole team walk and start fresh for all I care. Cmon guys, do you want this team to reach another level of greatness, or do you just want to sit around and jerk off to our prospect pool and cap space?

Is the answer option two?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

why the hell would we move AMart just to get a guy who's basically around the same level as him? the whole point is to get MORE depth for the blueline, not just upgrade one guy...and i'm skeptical that Hamonic is even better than AMart tbh, let alone the fact that NYI isn't going to trade him right now.

i agree with other sentiments - damn the future, get what you need to win the cup in here now. Trade the farm if you have to, when else are you gonna get a shot this good at 3 in 5? If they win this year, they can practically let the whole team walk and start fresh for all I care. Cmon guys, do you want this team to reach another level of greatness, or do you just want to sit around and jerk off to our prospect pool and cap space?

I think the logic is to swap a lefty for a righty in the top-4. But Amart has proven he can play the other side with little difficulty, I see no problem in upsetting the chemistry just for something a little more ideal. Especially with comments lately about how he's moved from a sheltered offensive d-man to a two-way force who can play middle pairing minutes.

 

[gnarls barkley]

I think the logic is to swap a lefty for a righty in the top-4. But Amart has proven he can play the other side with little difficulty, I see no problem in upsetting the chemistry just for something a little more ideal. Especially with comments lately about how he's moved from a sheltered offensive d-man to a two-way force who can play middle pairing minutes.

is it worth trying for that perfect balance of lefty and righty D? probably in the long run, but that ship sailed with Voynov and his wife-beating ways, and we're not gonna get something like that soon unless the heavens open up and bless us with the same absurdly cost-effective and yet synergistic defense that we've been spoiled with up until the trainwreck of last season. the idea that we will get back to something like the 2012 defense (or even 2014) in this year is just not feasible with the current state of the league.

we already have one of the better bluelines overall, sure it might be a bit thin at #4-6, but what contending team ISN'T thin there? Nashville?

injury insurance is all i'm worried about at this point, a legit top 4 would put us over the top but isn't necessarily "needed" to succeed in my eyes.

 

[go4hockey]

Not even close; we have this guy named Muzzin on this team, might want to look him up. We need a Greene replacement, which Hamonic would be more equivalent to.

Defense isn't even a problem for us (we are number 1 in the league!), no need to give up valuable assets yet.

I agree about Muzzin being better than Hamonic but when you compare Hamonic to Greene your like many many miles off base. Hamonic is a solid top four shutdown guy, Greene has never been a top 4 guy unless it's on a last place team. I like Greene but come on.

 

[Omni Owl]

is it worth having that perfect balance of lefty and righty D? probably, but that ship sailed with Voynov and his wife-beating ways, and we're not gonna get something like that again unless the heavens open up and bless us with the same absurdly cost-effective and yet synergistic defense that we've been spoiled with up until the trainwreck of last season. the idea that we will get back to something like the 2012 defense (or even 2014) in this year is just not feasible with the current state of the league.

we already have one of the better bluelines overall, sure it might be a bit thin at #4-6, but what contending team ISN'T thin there? Nashville?

injury insurance is all i'm worried about at this point, a legit top 4 would put us over the top but isn't necessarily "needed" to succeed in my eyes.

Yup, Muzzin-Martinez has been just fine despite both being lefties. We don't really have a choice with the cap situation, but I wouldn't trade Martinez for Hamonic. Marty looks really good this year.

McNabb has been a concern for me this year, but if he keeps using his reach like he did against Philly then we'll be good.

 

[YP44]

I think the logic is to swap a lefty for a righty in the top-4. But Amart has proven he can play the other side with little difficulty, I see no problem in upsetting the chemistry just for something a little more ideal. Especially with comments lately about how he's moved from a sheltered offensive d-man to a two-way force who can play middle pairing minutes.

This plus the fact Hamonic is younger is cheaper and IMO better already with a higher ceiling. That is no knock on martinez just koodos to Hamonic.
AS mentioned earlier it is moot as he would not waive for LA.

 

[cyclones22]

Yeah, our defense is fine. We really tend to underappreciate our guys on the blue line. Every year HF has a poll on defenses and the Kings never win (system defense) and hell, never for goaltending either (system goaltender). But all these guys do is actually stop pucks from crossing the goal line. HF polls would tell you that Nashville has a better defense and goaltender than the Kings, but every damn year the Kings are better than those guys are. And it's really not even close. The mighty Rinne and Weber and friends are completely overrated. Nashville is a paper defense, whereas the Kings actually prove out in the stat sheet.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

is it worth trying for that perfect balance of lefty and righty D? probably in the long run, but that ship sailed with Voynov and his wife-beating ways, and we're not gonna get something like that soon unless the heavens open up and bless us with the same absurdly cost-effective and yet synergistic defense that we've been spoiled with up until the trainwreck of last season. the idea that we will get back to something like the 2012 defense (or even 2014) in this year is just not feasible with the current state of the league.

we already have one of the better bluelines overall, sure it might be a bit thin at #4-6, but what contending team ISN'T thin there? Nashville?

injury insurance is all i'm worried about at this point, a legit top 4 would put us over the top but isn't necessarily "needed" to succeed in my eyes.

Oops--I meant "no reason," not "no problem"

I meant I DONT want to upset chemistry for that. Marty has been stellar in his role.

 

[gnarls barkley]

Yeah, our defense is fine. We really tend to underappreciate our guys on the blue line. Every year HF has a poll on defenses and the Kings never win (system defense) and hell, never for goaltending either (system goaltender). But all these guys do is actually stop pucks from crossing the goal line. HF polls would tell you that Nashville has a better defense and goaltender than the Kings, but every damn year the Kings are better than those guys are. And it's really not even close. The mighty Rinne and Weber and friends are completely overrated. Nashville is a paper defense, whereas the Kings actually prove out in the stat sheet.

there's a bit of truth in everything I think.

Kings might individually not look as good on paper - and all things considered, might not be as individually as talented top to bottom (although I'd argue that point as well) - but if our players are more cohesive and execute "the system" better...then the unit as a whole is better. Applies with our forwards as well. This concept is not easily grasped, I think.

Also, for how much people like to bring up "the system" to put down our standout players, it's remarkable that Sutter is still as relatively overlooked as he is for being one of the best coaches in the league. Guy seems to get little to no fanfare compared to Quenneville, Babcock, or even guys like Trotz, Boudreau, etc. It's only now that the Kings are steamrolling the regular season that everyone is starting to perk up.

Oops--I meant "no reason," not "no problem"

I meant I DONT want to upset chemistry for that. Marty has been stellar in his role.

no worries, i understood what you meant - my post wasn't really targeted at you, more general observation. pretty sure we are on the same page.

 

[Jeff18]

I agree about Muzzin being better than Hamonic but when you compare Hamonic to Greene your like many many miles off base. Hamonic is a solid top four shutdown guy, Greene has never been a top 4 guy unless it's on a last place team. I like Greene but come on.

I didn't mean really mean skill level replacement, just someone with the similar styles that can replace our aging/retired players like Greene, Mitchell, and Regehr. But I don't think it really matters who we put on D as long as we have Doughty/Muzzin/Quick. I'm sure we could put some Flyers Dman on this team and still be top 3 in defense.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Your math isn't quite right. If we get rid of Enroth, we still need a backup goalie and we don't have a cheap $600k option in the minors ready to come up (cough, Barto, cough). So the price for a veteran backup is not too far off from $1.5M, so we probably won't realize any savings, whether its Enroth or someone else.

We may need a slew of replacements, as McBain will probably get a raise from his minimum contract somewhere else. So Greene, McBain, and Erhoff gone would be a lot of turnover. Hopefully Forbort improves over the course of the year, but we still need 2 more cheap D to round out the 6-7 slots.

I never said anything about Enroth but that we need to resign him. The guys that need/could go for cap space are Greene, Clifford, Ehrhoff. And we get Richards cap hit to go down next year.

 

[driller1]

I never said anything about Enroth but that we need to resign him. The guys that need/could go for cap space are Greene, Clifford, Ehrhoff. And we get Richards cap hit to go down next year.

You are correct on Enroth, my bad….

I agree Greene needs to go, but Clifford and Ehrhoff have relatively low cap hits. Unless you want to play a rookie, replacing them with a low cost veteran isn't going to save much money.

You are also correct on Richards cap hit being lower. However, Lucic has $3M retained by Boston, so that may be a wash depending on whether we resign him or not.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

But you would need to pay another d if you lose both Greene and ehrhoff (even at legaue Min $900K).
Same goes for clifford.
It will be verytight

Not really. You'd have Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, McNabb, Forbort and McBain. You could just call up Gravel or resign Schultz for cheap. Problem solved. Mersch and Andreoff are already cheap options for that spot ready on the payroll. Problem solved again.