Speculation: 2014 Trade Deadline Discussion - Part IX - The Buffalo Syndrome

[mpp9]

And when he's not getting those shifts there who plays with Crosby? Brian Gibbons? Yeah, this sounds like an awesome idea

Keep shaking that head. Ignore that Kesler doesn't prevent us from finding an upgrade on Sid's RW over Gibbons. Or Beau returning.

This **** is ridiculous.

 

[Ogrezilla]

So waiting for some of these picks/prospects to POSSIBLY pan out in subsequent years thus wasting Sid and Geno's prime is a good tactic? We need to have a sense of urgency here, particularly for the next three or four years.

I want to spend the assets to upgrade the positions that actually need to be upgraded. I have said a few times now that if Kesler will play with Sid and we can actually still get a 3C, then I am OK with getting Kesler. I really highly doubt that's what happens if we bring him in.

We need to upgrade a bunch of spots. I'd rather make more smaller deals than one giant deal. Our team is top heavy enough. Add Stewart, Winchester and Goc and still spend less assets than trading for Kesler will cost while upgrading more positions.

 

[PensPlz]

so we are just going to trade all of our assets?

Yes. Maybe we could deal Orpik for couple 3rds or something to use in trading for another winger. But I really don't think Orpik will leave willingly or if anyone even wants him.

But if we do trade for Kesler, you have to think that all Shero is going all in again and will make another Frankenstein team like last year. The draft is overrated anyways (sarcasm face that I can't make on my phone). He must get a rush or some kinda high dealing at the deadline. I dunno. Seems like a lot of people here like it too.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Keep shaking that head. Ignore that Kesler doesn't prevent us from finding an upgrade on Sid's RW over Gibbons. Or Beau returning.

This **** is ridiculous.

And ignore the fact that making trades is extremely hard. This isn't NHL 14. You're right about the last part though.

 

[mpp9]

Did you read the post I quoted?

Yes. All of our assets means trading pieces that we got in return for Staal + the mid pick+Samuelsson for another winger.

That's just silly.

 

[MrBrightside]

Apparently trading for Kesler makes all the cheap deals talked about on here go away. Jig mentioned Winchester. Goc is also a possiblility who can shift between wing and center. Hemsky. Stempniak. Any number of decent top 9 guys who can be had for pieces this team wouldnt' miss.

Should we not stop using trade chips for guys who will be gone in 2 months? I can see both sides of the argument on Kesler, but please, no more dealing high picks and prospects for rentals. It's how we keep ending up here every season.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Keep shaking that head. Ignore that Kesler doesn't prevent us from finding an upgrade on Sid's RW over Gibbons. Or Beau returning.

This **** is ridiculous.

Well, I agree with the bolded. Bennett isn't here right now. He won't be back until 10-15 games before playoffs at best. If you think Bylsma is going to put Beau on Sid's wing in the playoffs with that little of time on his line before hand, then I applaud you.

You're right, this **** is ridiculous. Trading for Kesler does prevent us from finding a legitimate upgrade for Sid's RW. Guys like Hemsky and Boyes aren't the long term solution we're looking for. If we use all of our valuable trade assets to upgrade a position that is on the bottom of the list of things that need upgrading, then we won't have anything left to get Sid that winger, which is our real need.

How are people not getting this? We don't need a ****ing third line center, we need a first line winger.

 

[mpp9]

And ignore the fact that making trades is extremely hard. This isn't NHL 14. You're right about the last part though.

Which is why when an elite two way forward becomes available and the GM is interested in a couple of your assets, you do what you can to acquire him.

Hemsky, Stempniak, Winchester, Goc are all available. And won't break the bank. And would allow us flexibility in our lineup with Kesler.

 

[NatureBoy]

Maybe we are going for Kes to play 2C and planning to trade Geno

Or they are planning to play Malkin with Crosby.....who knows!

 

[Darth Vitale]

Stewart wouldn't be a 3rd liner, he would be a 30 goal scorer every year playing with Sid. .

The omnipresent "Sid Effect". So it's just automatic, eh? 30G every year? If Kunitz doesn't score 30G every year with Sid what makes you think a less consistent player who disappears for long stretches, even playing with talented guys (Stewart had all kinds of opportunities to play with great linemates in STL, even if not Sid), will make it happen?

Your assumption that he'd score 30G every year, is based on nothing. There is nothing in his career that suggests that will be the case.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3998/

I'm not saying he wouldn't do a better job than Dupuis... but he's far from a sure thing. Chris Stewart is not James Neal. Ryan Kesler is absolutely... a sure thing. And that's why you pay the higher price.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Well, I agree with the bolded. Bennett isn't here right now. He won't be back until 10-15 games before playoffs at best. If you think Bylsma is going to put Beau on Sid's wing in the playoffs with that little of time on his line before hand, then I applaud you.

You're right, this **** is ridiculous. Trading for Kesler does prevent us from finding a legitimate upgrade for Sid's RW. Guys like Hemsky and Boyes aren't the long term solution we're looking for. If we use all of our valuable trade assets to upgrade a position that is on the bottom of the list of things that need upgrading, then we won't have anything left to get Sid that winger, which is our real need.

How are people not getting this? We don't need a ****ing third line center, we need a first line winger.

they think Kesler will be the 1st line winger. That's the deciding factor here for me. I just don't see him playing the bulk of his time anywhere but on the 3rd line surrounded by garbage.

 

[ozpensfan]

To me if we had a GM who could remotely think outside the box we wouldn't even be discussing the Kesler trade.

 

[Fire Shero*]

Kassian would end up looking like Tangradi with the Pens. No way to that.

How dare you insult Kevin Stevens, Jr.

 

[Michael8771*]

I want to spend the assets to upgrade the positions that actually need to be upgraded. I have said a few times now that if Kesler will play with Sid and we can actually still get a 3C, then I am OK with getting Kesler. I really highly doubt that's what happens if we bring him in.

We need to upgrade a bunch of spots. I'd rather make more smaller deals than one giant deal. Our team is top heavy enough. Add Stewart, Winchester and Goc and still spend less assets than trading for Kesler will cost.

I don't trust Stewart, his work ethic has been questioned quite a bit. I'd rather try for Kesler and Goc and give up a bit more. Sutter, a first this year, a third this year and either a third/fourth next year and Dumoulin, yeah that's a lot of assets to part with, but we still keep the DP's and Harrington's of the world.

 

[JTG]

Kunitz-Crosby-Setoguchi
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal
Bennett-Kesler-Dupuis
Sill-Vitale-Megna

Scuderi-Letang
Maatta-Martin
Niskanen(?)-Rotation

 

[AgentM]

Maybe we are going for Kes to play 2C and planning to trade Geno

You beat me to it! Once Shero pulls the Sutter/Despres/Etc for Kesler trade he's gonna move Geno to Edmonton for Eberle, Perron, Gagner, and a pick. Or possibly to Winnipeg for Wheeler, Ladd, and a 1st. Geno doesn't have a NTC clause does he...

 

[Jag68Sid87]

So waiting for some of these picks/prospects to POSSIBLY pan out in subsequent years thus wasting Sid and Geno's prime is a good tactic? We need to have a sense of urgency here, particularly for the next three or four years.

We've already wasted how many years of Sid and Geno's prime years with this supposedly great win-now approach???

You cannot win without the draft in sports. If this deal goes down, we don't pick until round 4 again this year. Winning teams don't have to be that desperate. And it's positively stupid to be that desperate team when you have the most unfair advantage (Crosby-Malkin) of any team in the league.

Basically, you have to be pretty frickin' awful in team building and management to consistently come up short, and continuously be that desperate for 'proven' talent in 'win-now' mode.

And ignore the fact that making trades is extremely hard. This isn't NHL 14. You're right about the last part though.

Exactly. But mpp9 thinks we can get Hemsky for Phil Samuelsson and a third-round pick (which now becomes a 2015 pick because the 2014 pick is going to Vancouver for Kesler).

This is a vicious cycle of stupidity.

 

[Waffle Fries]

they think Kesler will be the 1st line winger. That's the deciding factor here for me. I just don't see him playing the bulk of his time anywhere but on the 3rd line surrounded by garbage.

That's not even the impression I'm getting from them. They're talking about using Kesler as a third line center and then giving Kesler random shifts on Sid's line throughout the game while for the other 75% of the time Sid will be playing with Brian Gibbons or Tanner Glass.

 

[Hell Yeah!!!]

So waiting for some of these picks/prospects to POSSIBLY pan out in subsequent years thus wasting Sid and Geno's prime is a good tactic? We need to have a sense of urgency here, particularly for the next three or four years.

Your statement is predicated on the fact that with these trades Sid and Geno's next 18 months wont be wasted.

This year is done, absorb that, kesler ain't changing things. Just like last year we'd be throwing good money after bad. And a lot more than kesler needs to change for next year to shape up any different.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The omnipresent "Sid Effect". So it's just automatic, eh? 30G every year? If Kunitz doesn't score 30G every year with Sid what makes you think a less consistent player who disappears for long stretches, even playing with talented guys (Stewart had all kinds of opportunities to play with great linemates in STL, even if not Sid).

Your comment that he'd score 30G every year, is based on nothing. There is nothing in his career that suggests that will be the case.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3998/

I'm not saying he wouldn't do a better job that say, Dupuis... but he's far from a sure thing. Ryan Kesler is absolutely... a sure thing.

This year is only Stewart's second season where he is playing below a 30 goal pace. Kesler has done it once. I'm not arguing that Kesler isn't better than Stewart, but you are really underrating Stewart's goal scoring if you don't think he'd be a lock for 30 here.

 

[mpp9]

Well, I agree with the bolded. Bennett isn't here right now. He won't be back until 10-15 games before playoffs at best. If you think Bylsma is going to put Beau on Sid's wing in the playoffs with that little of time on his line before hand, then I applaud you.

You're right, this **** is ridiculous. Trading for Kesler does prevent us from finding a legitimate upgrade for Sid's RW. Guys like Hemsky and Boyes aren't the long term solution we're looking for. If we use all of our valuable trade assets to upgrade a position that is on the bottom of the list of things that need upgrading, then we won't have anything left to get Sid that winger, which is our real need.

How are people not getting this? We don't need a ****ing third line center, we need a first line winger.

It appears a trade for Kesler downgrades this team. Sid can't possibly produce with Hemsky. Kesler won't play wing. Beau won't come back and be a difference maker on the third line and work his way into the top 6 next season.

I have no words.

 

[Michael8771*]

The omnipresent "Sid Effect". So it's just automatic, eh? 30G every year? If Kunitz doesn't score 30G every year with Sid what makes you think a less consistent player who disappears for long stretches, even playing with talented guys (Stewart had all kinds of opportunities to play with great linemates in STL, even if not Sid), will make it happen?

Your assumption that he'd score 30G every year, is based on nothing. There is nothing in his career that suggests that will be the case.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3998/

I'm not saying he wouldn't do a better job than Dupuis... but he's far from a sure thing. Chris Stewart is not James Neal. Ryan Kesler is absolutely... a sure thing. And that's why you pay the higher price.

Precisely, in this case it truly would be you get what you pay for. And I'd rather opt for Kesler than Stewart.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Which is why when a elite two way forward becomes available and the GM is interested in a couple of your assets, you do what you can to acquire him.

Hemsky, Stempniak, Winchester, Goc are all available. And won't break the bank. And would allow us flexibility in our lineup with Kesler.

Assuming Shero wants those guys for one and no other teams are out there to drive up the price four two. Just because somebody like Kesler is available doesn't mean we should get him. Not unless you want Shero to run his team like Holmgren.

Go out and trade for a position of need before you start getting into replacing parts that don't need replaced.

I really have nothing more to say that hasn't already been said other than you're wrong and when you realize it over the next couple of months if this trade happens you can only look back over these few threads and wonder how you let yourself have this singular one track mind.

I'm done.

 

[Michael8771*]

Your statement is predicated on the fact that with these trades Sid and Geno's next 18 months wont be wasted.

This year is done, absorb that, kesler ain't changing things. Just like last year we'd be throwing good money after bad. And a lot more than kesler needs to change for next year to shape up any different.

You add, Kesler, Martin and a quality depth forward to this team, you don't think it could make a sizable difference? If that's the case we can agree to disagree.

 

[nhindian]

OK let's go with the suspension of disbelief that Bylsma actually uses his assets correctly. Also, I don't think I've seen it where Kesler came out and said he only wants to play center.

Let's not forget Kesler is signed for the next two years.

Kunitz - Sid - Kessler
Bb - Geno - Neal
Dupuis - Jokinen - Gibbons
Insert collection of WBS / Gladams

Doesn't look awful.