Speculation: 2014 Trade Deadline Discussion - Part IX - The Buffalo Syndrome

[Ogrezilla]

It appears a trade for Kesler downgrades this team. Sid can't possibly produce with Hemsky. Kesler won't play wing. Beau won't come back and be a difference maker on the third line and work his way into the top 6 next season.

I have no words.

If the right deals are made along with Kesler, I'd love to have him. I just think he's going to cost too much to allow for those deals to happen. And I think he'll be used on the third line playing with garbage because of it.

 

[Darth Vitale]

This year is only Stewart's second season where he is playing below a 30 goal pace.

Scoring pace and actually doing it are two different things and he scored 15G in 79GP a couple years ago. Also, such a talent... why did Colorado get rid of him when they were rebuilding a young core? Why is STL getting rid of him now? You don't think that trade could've happened with someone other than Stewart? There is a reason teams cut this guy loose. You don't just get rid of young, skillled, big F unless there's a real concern about work ethic, mental strength or some other aspect of the game.

I guess you can blame "bad luck" for the Colorado trade, and "Ken Hitchcock and his mean defensive system" for STL, and "need for picks" when Buffalo flips him before even giving him a shot (despite they fact that THEY could use someone by his description)... said it 100x on this board but some people won't believe it until he comes here and disappears for half a season I guess. He's overrated.

Would I take him in a modest trade? You bet. He adds scoring depth. Would I trade for him as "the winger solution"? Nope. Because he isn't.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

This year is only Stewart's second season where he is playing below a 30 goal pace. Kesler has done it once. I'm not arguing that Kesler isn't better than Stewart, but you are really underrating Stewart's goal scoring if you don't think he'd be a lock for 30 here.

And that's because of Hitch. He has great hands. He pretty much is that James Neal-type lurking in the weeds.

But he's exactly what the braintrust is not looking for right now. And that makes me sad.

 

[mpp9]

Exactly. But mpp9 thinks we can get Hemsky for Phil Samuelsson and a third-round pick (which now becomes a 2015 pick because the 2014 pick is going to Vancouver for Kesler).

This is a vicious cycle of stupidity.

Top 9 wingers are dealt all the time for 2nd, 3rd or 4th round picks.

 

[Waffle Fries]

It appears a trade for Kesler downgrades this team. Sid can't possibly produce with Hemsky. Kesler won't play wing. Beau won't come back and be a difference maker on the third line and work his way into the top 6 next season.

I have no words.

How the **** are we getting Hemsky? You act like if you dream it, it happens. It doesn't work that way. You're ignoring so many factors from trade assets, to the salary cap, to other team's bidding etc.

And most importantly, you're ignoring the whole point about acquiring Kesler. Those assets could be going to better use by getting Sid his Neal. Not someone that will be on our third line.

 

[SEALBound]

I love this place. For 60 fu*king games this season we've been pissing and moaning about the roster. We've chastised Shero the entire year for building a crappy team and not making moves. Our third line is a joke, Sutter is garbage, Bennett is hurt, and it's obvious that Despres is on the outs. There is a major hole on Sid's wing to boot.

Now...when a potential deal comes up to bring in a Selke candidate who is extremely versatile, wins battles, and is signed for multiple seasons at a reasonable cap hit...EVERYONE HERE IS B*TCHING ABOUT IT!!!!

WTF people!?

Let's break down the deal here:

Sutter - Oh no...hot garbage 3C who has shown zilch this year.
Despres/Dump - One of the MANY d-prospects we have that we always ***** about drafting and never trade! :O
1st - Sucks, but that's the price
3rd - It's a 3rd people

for Kesler and potentially another player. Look at the Hossa trade: EC, Army, Espo, 1st...similar package no? I'd be willing to bet if that's the offer, there will be another player coming back.

Then we move on to Kassain and the crying gets worse! Kassain is EXACTLY what is needed on the third line. Big and mean and can chip in offensively better than anyone in our bottom six. At the potential expense of adding Bennett...our 2010 pick that's been hurt for the vast majority of his career and has never shown a knack for producing even with Sid or Geno. The potential of adding Kulemin and going after a legit winger in the off season makes him expendable. His fast approaching the Whitney level with me.

Kunitz-Crosby-Wing
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal
Kassain-Kesler-Dupuis
Who-Friggin-Cares

That's is better than keeping Sutter, Despres, Bennett and whatever we may get in the draft with the 1st especially given Shero's drafting history.

So like I said...this place is classic. Piss and moan about a crappy roster then piss and moan when Shero is looking to fix it!!! Jeeeeeeeez!

 

[mpp9]

If the right deals are made along with Kesler, I'd love to have him. I just think he's going to cost too much to allow for those deals to happen. And I think he'll be used on the third line playing with garbage because of it.

But for that to be true. We'd need to not bring in another winger. Beau be done for the season. Megna never called up.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Scoring pace and actually doing it are two different things and he scored 15G in 79GP a couple years ago. Also, such a talent... why did Colorado get rid of him when they were rebuilding a young core? Why is STL getting rid of him now? You don't think that trade could've happened with someone other than Stewart? There is a reason teams cut this guy lose. You don't just get rid of young, skillled, big F unless there's a real concern about work ethic, mental strength or some other aspect of the game.

I guess you can blame "bad luck" for the Colorado trade, and "Ken Hitchcock and his mean defensive system" for STL, and "need for picks" when Buffalo flips him before even giving him a shot (despite they fact that THEY could use someone by his description)... said it 100x on this board but some people won't believe it until he comes here and disappears for half a season I guess. He's overrated.

Would I take him in a modest trade? You bet. He adds scoring depth. Would I trade for him as "the winger solution"? Nope. Because he isn't.

COL got rid of him because they needed a big time d-man. STL got rid of him because he doesn't fit the game they play. He is a goal scorer. He gets the exact same complaints James Neal got in Dallas.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Would I trade for him as "the winger solution"? Nope. Because he isn't.

And Pascal Dupuis is? Or a part-time platoon of Ryan Kesler and Tanner Glass? Drafting somebody in the FOURTH round and waiting/praying for six years?

If Chris Stewart isn't the winger solution, there literally is NO winger solution.

 

[Michael8771*]

How the **** are we getting Hemsky? You act like if you dream it, it happens. It doesn't work that way. You're ignoring so many factors from trade assets, to the salary cap, to other team's bidding etc.

And most importantly, you're ignoring the whole point about acquiring Kesler. Those assets could be going to better use by getting Sid his Neal. Not someone that will be on our third line.

You conclusively know that Kesler will be relegated to the third line? Sorry, I don't think that's happening. Again, Kesler is a Bylsma type of player and he plays the hell out of those guys (relative to their talent level).

 

[Waffle Fries]

Trading Bennett for Kassian is the most moronic thing I've heard on here in a while.

 

[Shockmaster]

I love this place. For 60 fu*king games this season we've been pissing and moaning about the roster. We've chastised Shero the entire year for building a crappy team and not making moves. Our third line is a joke, Sutter is garbage, Bennett is hurt, and it's obvious that Despres is on the outs. There is a major hole on Sid's wing to boot.

Now...when a potential deal comes up to bring in a Selke candidate who is extremely versatile, wins battles, and is signed for multiple seasons at a reasonable cap hit...EVERYONE HERE IS B*TCHING ABOUT IT!!!!

WTF people!?

Let's break down the deal here:

Sutter - Oh no...hot garbage 3C who has shown zilch this year.
Despres/Dump - One of the MANY d-prospects we have that we always ***** about drafting and never trade! :O
1st - Sucks, but that's the price
3rd - It's a 3rd people

for Kesler and potentially another player. Look at the Hossa trade: EC, Army, Espo, 1st...similar package no? I'd be willing to bet if that's the offer, there will be another player coming back.

Then we move on to Kassain and the crying gets worse! Kassain is EXACTLY what is needed on the third line. Big and mean and can chip in offensively better than anyone in our bottom six. At the potential expense of adding Bennett...our 2010 pick that's been hurt for the vast majority of his career and has never shown a knack for producing even with Sid or Geno. The potential of adding Kulemin and going after a legit winger in the off season makes him expendable. His fast approaching the Whitney level with me.

Kunitz-Crosby-Wing
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal
Kassain-Kesler-Dupuis
Who-Friggin-Cares

That's is better than keeping Sutter, Despres, Bennett and whatever we may get in the draft with the 1st especially given Shero's drafting history.

So like I said...this place is classic. Piss and moan about a crappy roster then piss and moan when Shero is looking to fix it!!! Jeeeeeeeez!

Guess you didn't watch Bennett much last year?

 

[pensfan71]

Or they are planning to play Malkin with Crosby.....who knows!

That's what I thought when the first line we put out last night was Kunitz-Sid-Geno

 

[JTG]

Trading Bennett for Kassian is the most moronic thing I've heard on here in a while.

It is...depending on the intel we have on Bennett's wrists.

 

[Ogrezilla]

But for that to be true. We'd need to not bring in another winger. Beau be done for the season. Megna never called up.

What makes you think we'd bring in another winger or call up Megna? I agree Bennett may come back.

I am not saying a Kesler trade can't work out. I'm saying its not some slam dunk that we'd be stupid not to take.

 

[Waffle Fries]

You conclusively know that Kesler will be relegated to the third line? Sorry, I don't think that's happening. Again, Kesler is a Bylsma type of player and he plays the hell out of those guys (relative to their talent level).

Okay. So he gets a few shifts in the top six. That doesn't change anything.

 

[mpp9]

Assuming Shero wants those guys for one and no other teams are out there to drive up the price four two. Just because somebody like Kesler is available doesn't mean we should get him. Not unless you want Shero to run his team like Holmgren.

Go out and trade for a position of need before you start getting into replacing parts that don't need replaced.

I really have nothing more to say that hasn't already been said other than you're wrong and when you realize it over the next couple of months if this trade happens you can only look back over these few threads and wonder how you let yourself have this singular one track mind.

I'm done.

I've wanted Kulemin and Stewart for years. I'd take Kesler over either b/c he's significantly better than either.

How am I the one with a one track mind?

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Top 9 wingers are dealt all the time for 2nd, 3rd or 4th round picks.

Yes, to SEVERAL DIFFERENT TEAMS. They don't all go to the same team. We're not the only buyers here.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

So like I said...this place is classic. Piss and moan about a crappy roster then piss and moan when Shero is looking to fix it!!! Jeeeeeeeez!

Letang and Martin's injuries changed a lot.

I don't see pissing and moaning... I see contrary opinions. Sorry if they are scary.

 

[Darth Vitale]

I love this place. For 60 fu*king games this season we've been pissing and moaning about the roster. We've chastised Shero the entire year for building a crappy team and not making moves. Our third line is a joke, Sutter is garbage, Bennett is hurt, and it's obvious that Despres is on the outs. There is a major hole on Sid's wing to boot.

Now...when a potential deal comes up to bring in a Selke candidate who is extremely versatile, wins battles, and is signed for multiple seasons at a reasonable cap hit...EVERYONE HERE IS B*TCHING ABOUT IT!!!!

So true, so true. As if he plays every 3rd shift at 3C to improve our matchups and bottom six scoring, he's being "mis-used". Ryan Kesler can play absolutely anywhere you want him to play, and still make a difference. Unless you surround him with Gladams. That's about the only possible caveat but that won't happen.

I could see this:

Kunitz - Sid - Kesler
Juice - Geno - Neal
Bennett - Goc / Gagner / Whoever - Engo

working fine, with Kesler and Bennett getting the odd shift on the 3rd line to give the other team a matchup headache. That's if we could keep Bennett (not sure how much interest Van would have in him).

 

[JTG]

And if the deal was right, I'd support Stewart coming here in a second. Certainly not a guy I'd overpay for though.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Again, Kesler is a Bylsma type of player and he plays the hell out of those guys (relative to their talent level).

Hitching our wagon to Bylsma and his types is why we're in such a messed-up predicament to begin with.

If we got rid of Bylsma, there would be no more need for myopic acquisitions of Bylsma-type players!

 

[Ogrezilla]

And if the deal was right, I'd support Stewart coming here in a second. Certainly not a guy I'd overpay for though.

he's currently on a team actively shipping out everything they have. I don't think we'd need to overpay.

 

[Shockmaster]

So true, so true. As if he plays every 3rd shift at 3C to improve our matchups and bottom six scoring, he's being "mis-used". Ryan Kesler can play absolutely anywhere you want him to play, and still make a difference. Unless you surround him with Gladams. That's about the only possible caveat but that won't happen.

I could see this:

Kunitz - Sid - Kesler
Juice - Geno - Neal
Bennett - Goc / Gagner / Whoever - Engo

working fine, with Kesler and Bennett getting the odd shift on the 3rd line to give the other team a matchup headache. That's if we could keep Bennett (not sure how much interest Van would have in him).

Yup, cause Bylsma is always working magic with matchups.

 

[td_ice]

And if the deal was right, I'd support Stewart coming here in a second. Certainly not a guy I'd overpay for though.

Yep, agreed on that.