Speculation: 2014 Trade Deadline Discussion - Part IX - The Buffalo Syndrome

[Darth Vitale]

Yah I will be very surprised, if Shero gets Kesler, that he does not also get another F with Top 9 quality.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

So true, so true. As if he plays every 3rd shift at 3C to improve our matchups and bottom six scoring, he's being "mis-used". Ryan Kesler can play absolutely anywhere you want him to play, and still make a difference. Unless you surround him with Gladams. That's about the only possible caveat but that won't happen.

I could see this:

Kunitz - Sid - Kesler
Juice - Geno - Neal
Bennett - Goc / Gagner / Whoever - Engo

working fine, with Kesler and Bennett getting the odd shift on the 3rd line to give the other team a matchup headache. That's if we could keep Bennett (not sure how much interest Van would have in him).

Deryk Engelland on the third line? You're better than that, DV.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Trading Bennett for Kassian is the most moronic thing I've heard on here in a while.

Kassian would be a throw in, IMO, as part of one of those big 4 or 5 asset deals. We would not trade Bennett for Kassian straight up. Although I think Kassian gets a bad rap around here. He'd fit our system pretty well. Basically a bigger, meaner, more skilled version of Tangradi. Not saying he's Blake Wheeler or anything, but he's got potential to improve our Top 9's scoring depth. When he played with the Sedins for a spell last year he was tearing it up, doing what Tangradi could never do in a short stint -- put the puck in the net. So if we can get him for nothing or very little, why not?

 

[Waffle Fries]

Kassian would be a throw in, IMO.

The two who mentioned it were saying that they would add Bennett to the original Kesler deal of Sutter, 1st, 3rd, prospect, in order to get Kassian.

That is saying they would be trading Bennett for Kassian. That is beyond moronic.

 

[jmelm]

The Pens are looking at possibly getting Goc as a short term fix for 3c (if we get Kesler).

Source?

A guy like Goc could likely be had for a third or fourth rounder next year and a prospect down on the depth chart. It's very doable.

OK, so you absolutely have zero source. So why is the statement above written in a way that suggests it's factual? From what I have heard, while Goc is not untouchable, Florida would like to try to re-sign him. Don't forget, they have to hit the salary floor.

I don't think anyone is going to want Orpik, my goodness is he just horrid now. If Shero signs him, I will never raise my hopes in this team winning the cup ever again.

Sadly, the Penguins won't put him on the block, especially with the current injuries to Martin, Letang, and Dumoulin in WBS. If we did want to trade him, however, there would absolutely be a big market for him. As much as we hate him, Orpik is still viewed as a shut-down guy who can be puhishing physically, adds size and is mobile, and most importantly brings veteran leadership and winning experience. He would easily fetch what D. Murray did last year at the low end, and could even fetch a late first (or 2nd that conditionally becomes a 1st) and a lower end pick or prospect.

 

[Michael8771*]

Okay. So he gets a few shifts in the top six. That doesn't change anything.

If they are gonna give up as many assets to get Kesler as has been suggested, I don't see him playing 3c this season other than on occasion. Why you think he would I don't get. We aren't gonna make a play like this for a guy who's stuck on the 3rd line, that's nonsensical.

 

[jmelm]

What would make you angrier in this situation below...

Losing Despres in the package of Sutter + 1st for Kelser...
OR
Losing Pouliot in the package of Sutter + 1st for Kesler...

For me, it's the 2nd one, for sure. And I'm actually going to believe Rossi on this one, that the Pens won't give up Pouliot. DP is rated as their #1 prospect in their own prospect rankings. Pouliot, not Despres. And while I absolutely agree with the notion that we need another big body on defense, both Despres and Dumoulin provide that. Despres brings that size with a bit more physicality and even upside in his game, but there's a bit more risk with that player. Dumoulin brings that size and will play a safer, more reliable game than Despres. So I believe the Penguins would be OK with letting either Despres or Dumoulin go, but think that they won't, and shouldn't, let DP go.

Sutter+Despres+1st for Kesler = fine
Sutter+Pouliot+1st for Kesler = cringe but I'm okay with it
Bennett+Despres+1st for Kesler = fine
Sutter+Bennett+Despres+1st for Kesler+Kassain = very happy

Trading Bennett is honestly the dumbest idea being discussed in any of these trade proposals. He is our only young winger with surefire top-6 potential, and next season he could either be a great 3rd wheel on Geno's line, or make for a true & legit scoring line if paired with Kesler + someone else (Megna, IMO). Bennett, like Pouliot is supposedly, should be an absolute untouchable and not part of any discussions. Trading him would create another big void that (A) we could not fill, especially at the money he makes. YOU NEED TO HAVE GOOD, YOUNG, INEXPENSIVE PLAYERS TO WIN WITH THE SALARY CAP!

So Rossi says there might be another Canucks or Pens player in the deal. What about Kassian? I'd add Bennett for that.

So you think Kassian is better than Bennett?

And I've been a Kassian fan. I would love him as a throw in if we can squeeze that into the deal, because he MIGHT be a good reclamation project, but trading our best young winger for him? That is a wildly stupid and risky idea, no offense.

Oh, and Rossi said "there might be another player coming back", but he didn't say that the Penguins would be adding to make that happen or even want anyone besides Kesler. So they're not adding to that package to get that player. That was based on the package he stated in his deal. I know Rossi is not very accurate or legit, but if we're quoting him, we might as well do it properly.

If they can get Kesler for Sutter, Despres and a 1st you do it. I can't see Vancouver moving him for such a lacklustre offer however.

When (if it's true) Kesler is only giving them 4 teams to work with, VAN might not end up with quite the bidding war that they want for this player.

 

[Jacob]

If the Penguins acquire Kesler to play on the 3rd line that would be an extreme case of misuse and mismanagement and the entire coaching staff and front office should be fired. Kesler's a former 40 goal scorer and he's played RW in the NHL very recently.

With the salaries we have on the books the 3 center model is dead. What we need are two complete lines and a bottom-6 filled with role players and guys that can chip in offensively once in a while and not get scored on.

 

[Corvidae]

Trading Bennett for Kassian is the most moronic thing I've heard on here in a while.

I agree that Vancouver would be stupid to make that trade. They' be trading Kassian for hospital bills.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I love this place. For 60 fu*king games this season we've been pissing and moaning about the roster. We've chastised Shero the entire year for building a crappy team and not making moves. Our third line is a joke, Sutter is garbage, Bennett is hurt, and it's obvious that Despres is on the outs. There is a major hole on Sid's wing to boot.

Now...when a potential deal comes up to bring in a Selke candidate who is extremely versatile, wins battles, and is signed for multiple seasons at a reasonable cap hit...EVERYONE HERE IS B*TCHING ABOUT IT!!!!

WTF people!?

Let's break down the deal here:

Sutter - Oh no...hot garbage 3C who has shown zilch this year.
Despres/Dump - One of the MANY d-prospects we have that we always ***** about drafting and never trade! :O
1st - Sucks, but that's the price
3rd - It's a 3rd people

for Kesler and potentially another player. Look at the Hossa trade: EC, Army, Espo, 1st...similar package no? I'd be willing to bet if that's the offer, there will be another player coming back.

Then we move on to Kassain and the crying gets worse! Kassain is EXACTLY what is needed on the third line. Big and mean and can chip in offensively better than anyone in our bottom six. At the potential expense of adding Bennett...our 2010 pick that's been hurt for the vast majority of his career and has never shown a knack for producing even with Sid or Geno. The potential of adding Kulemin and going after a legit winger in the off season makes him expendable. His fast approaching the Whitney level with me.

Kunitz-Crosby-Wing
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal
Kassain-Kesler-Dupuis
Who-Friggin-Cares

That's is better than keeping Sutter, Despres, Bennett and whatever we may get in the draft with the 1st especially given Shero's drafting history.

So like I said...this place is classic. Piss and moan about a crappy roster then piss and moan when Shero is looking to fix it!!! Jeeeeeeeez!

Your mistake, is thinking Rossi knows what he is talking about. I doubt many of us have a problem with the deal Rossi's "sources" are putting out there. However, those of us with common sense understand 1. It's Rossi 2. Kesler will likely cost a lot more than we imagine.

1 and 2 are 1 in the same. We're all in the same gang. The Get Along Gang.

 

[billybudd]

Crosby deperately needs a winger, so let's trade all of our valuable trade assets on a third line center? And then when he gets here complain that he needs a winger too?

I'm sorry, but this is just a terrible idea. Acquiring Kesler as a 3C won't make us a better team. On balance with giving up our first and someone like Pouliot or Despres, it could make us even worse for the future. Upgrading our third line center won't bring us any closer to the Cup.

The bottom six is in desperate need more than the first line is.

I'll repost this now, because I put it up pretty late

Graphs courtesy of mc79hockey.com


Maybe representing this visually will explain why the third and fourth lines are a bigger problem than the first.

Goal and shot directed at net differential for our top 6 vs other teams' top 6. This includes Crosby playing with Dupuis followed by a right wing who shouldn't even be in the league.

Now the same for our bottom 6 and other teams' bottom 6.

Our first line right wing situation is a problem, but not one that puts us woefully out of line with the other "contenders," especially when you consider that, on balance, we have better special teams.

Our third line situation, on the other hand, is a catastrophe. This is as bad as it's been in over a decade. And no other "contender" has this disadvantage to anywhere near the degree that we do.

That's the critical thing that needs to be fixed before anything else is even looked at.

Edit: I should point out that this is the second year in a row the bottom six has looked like this.

 

[JTG]

he's currently on a team actively shipping out everything they have. I don't think we'd need to overpay.

I don't necessarily think so either.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If they are gonna give up as many assets to get Kesler as has been suggested, I don't see him playing 3c this season other than on occasion. Why you think he would I don't get. We aren't gonna make a play like this for a guy who's stuck on the 3rd line, that's nonsensical.

Dan Bylsma is non-sensical.

Like we've been saying, adding Kesler would absolutely require us to bring in a new 3C to make any sense. That's literally my argument. You just have more faith in our management doing things that make sense than I do.

 

[pensfan71]

Yup, cause Bylsma is always working magic with matchups.

To be fair he has Sid and Geno out against the right guys usually, our bottom 6 does blow dick so there's literally no point matching up there

 

[Darth Vitale]

Deryk Engelland on the third line? You're better than that, DV.

Hey I'm just being realistic. He's shown he's a better grind-winger than defenseman. If I had my way, he wouldn't be on the team, but someone is going to get moved and guys will get jumbled around if we make a trade with lots of change in assets. Don't be shocked to see Bylsma put Engo in exactly that spot.

 

[Shockmaster]

To be fair he has Sid and Geno out against the right guys usually, our bottom 6 does blow dick so there's literally no point matching up there

Yup, like at home games when he always puts Crosby out against Chara or Malkin out against Couturier.

 

[Darth Vitale]

The two who mentioned it were saying that they would add Bennett to the original Kesler deal of Sutter, 1st, 3rd, prospect, in order to get Kassian.

That is saying they would be trading Bennett for Kassian. That is beyond moronic.

Sorry I missed that. Yes that would be stupid. Albeit you can argue both are risky, unproven players (standing back from the situation as a fan of neither team). But I've seen Kassian play (in person I saw him in the AHL and only a few NHL games last year), and I would not complain if Shero could "Niskanen Vancouver" into giving him to us for cheap. That said he was the main piece in the Hodgson deal if I remember so... doubtful they'll manage assets that carelessly.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Hey I'm just being realistic. He's shown he's a better grind-winger than defenseman. If I had my way, he wouldn't be on the team, but someone is going to get moved and guys will get jumbled around if we make a trade with lots of change in assets. Don't be shocked to see Bylsma put Engo in exactly that spot.

Uh... no.

He'll be playing him on defense. Because poor Derek doesn't wanna play forward, remember?

 

[Michael8771*]

Dan Bylsma is non-sensical.

Like we've been saying, adding Kesler would absolutely require us to bring in a new 3C to make any sense. That's literally my argument. You just have more faith in our management doing things that make sense than I do.

I have faith in the fact that if you're a DB type of guy, you'll play, and quite a lot. We aren't gonna get Kesler and leave a hole on the third line. I believe we'll (at the very least) make a play for two players upfront.

 

[Shockmaster]

Dan Bylsma is non-sensical.

Like we've been saying, adding Kesler would absolutely require us to bring in a new 3C to make any sense. That's literally my argument. You just have more faith in our management doing things that make sense than I do.

Unless they plan on using Jokinen as a C more often.

Kunitz-Crosby-Jokinen
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
X-Kesler-X

or

Kunitz-Crosby-Kesler
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
X-Jokinen-X

Whoever is the 3C may depend on opponent or game situation (up a goal or down a goal). Not saying that's necessarily what I would do, but it might be what the Penguins do.

 

[pensfan71]

Flyers trying to outbid us

 

[Waffle Fries]

If they are gonna give up as many assets to get Kesler as has been suggested, I don't see him playing 3c this season other than on occasion. Why you think he would I don't get. We aren't gonna make a play like this for a guy who's stuck on the 3rd line, that's nonsensical.

If Kesler was going to be Sid's winger, I'd be fine with it. But that's not how I see the team using him, and that's not how some here are suggesting using him.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I have faith in the fact that if you're a DB type of guy, you'll play, and quite a lot. We aren't gonna get Kesler and leave a hole on the third line. I believe we'll (at the very least) make a play for two players upfront.

Staal played quite a lot. Adding Kesler might just be the excuse Disco needs to play Glass and Kobasew the minutes they really deserve on that 3rd line.

 

[JTG]

Torts is a clown, but when he said that the way Kesler plays the game, and what he does best is better fit as a wing...he is right.

 

[nhindian]

If Kesler was going to be Sid's winger, I'd be fine with it. But that's not how I see the team using him, and that's not how some here are suggesting using him.

Yeah, I'd only be okay with acquiring Kesler if he played on Sids wing.