Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread

[Ola]

Nash had no problem creating offense on his own in Columbus. Why all the sudden do we have to worry about what Nash needs? Stepan is better than 80% of the C's Nash played with during his time in CLB.

With ROR we would have a 1B, 2A, 2B for our top three centers. Not to shabby. Is ROR a 1A type C? No. Do we have the assets for a 1A type C? No. Getting one through the draft is nothing more than a crapshoot considering we don't have the picks to make a deal for a top 3 pick.

1B is the best we can do and honestly, ROR is good defensively as well. Something that shouldn't be overlooked.

Nash-Step de facto formed an excellent win momentum duo that played 0-0 at worst on most nights.

The downside with Step with Nash is that Step, as a right shooting C, don't quite natrually serve his RW and that Step very seldom is able to blow things wide open. You know, to put it like this, on a scale 1-10 Step makes alot of offensive plays that are 6.5, but very few that are 8-10 or 1-6. Many centers will be more like all over the board, some 10s and some 3s, and especially against teams that really takes care of business defensively and take away all the ice infront of their own net, there is a risk that line without a center that can open things up will be shut down. Stepan has played a lot of PO hockey for us, as a center he picks up a lot of cheap pts, but he has been shut down completely for long stretches before.

 

[Gardner McKay]

They are in rebuild mode so im not sure what they want.

Teams can retain some salary. We add more with the more they retain.

Likely will lead to Pouliot departing and having a rookie or free agent playing who has less of a cap hit. Sather and Gorton did a great job last offseason getting players for max value. It will have to be done again. It could lead to Stralman departing too. But the Rangers need a center like Thornton.

I said my goal would be to try and retain a majority of the roster. Along the way you may have to concede some things.

He won't be cheap. Especially if SJS has to retain salary. I can see a team easily giving up a 1st++ to get a perennial PPG player. We can't match that without completely crippling this team into a 1997-2004 esque oblivion (and this will be the final piece into doing that).

Also, getting a guy like Thornton means Stralman is gone. There is no two ways about it.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Fair enough. They are both good defensively. I'd say ROR is slightly better offensively and is a better skater. It isn't a huge difference but acquiring an even slightly improved version of Stepan would do great things for this team.

The one problem I have with ROR, is that he has only eclipsed 60 points once, is 23, and is asking for 6.5 mill.

If you add that to the team, and you succumb to those demands, what happens when Stepan is up for a new contract next year?

What is to stop him from asking for the same contract? And its not like you can ask him to take a home town discount when the precedent you set is to trade for another team's headache and give into the demands. That's a bad precedent and players would disrespect it.

Rangers had that problem a couple years ago. They wouldn't pay their own but they went out and signed over the hill players to massive contracts. They got a lot of flack for it in the media.

Can't do that. It's something that would need to be resolved in a very rationale way. It's not as simple as trading for ROR and throwing 6.5 mill bc he wants it.

He'd need to take a team friendly contract too, for the sake of all the players already on the roster that have been hardballed along the way.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I'm kind of surprised that as many people were on board with the Staal-Brassard for ROR trade that Blue blooded proposed a couple pages back.

Seems to me like a pretty big overpayment and not a trade that helps this team. You're giving up a first pairing defenseman on most teams (and probably on the Avs) and a very solid depth centerman for a good (but not great) centerman. What? Not seeing the fair value there.

Not to mention it severely downgrades NYR's defense, kills the center depth this team may have had if JT Miller can't put it together, and relies on slotting in like 3 rookies - and two of them in pretty friggin significant roles (top 4 d and top 3 C). Ew.




Yea, also this. It feels like Step is being simultaneously over and undervalued in this thread (or other players that have become the next big get aren't evaluated realistically).

I think ROR is better at this point; but not by as large a gap as people are making out. Also don't see him as some elite 1C that solves all of our scoring and center woes. Probably an upgrade over Brad, which would be nice - but not the elite 1C I feel people are making him out to be. And while I say this, I think I like the idea of ROR, because it rounds out the C depth in a way having Brad didn't. But I also don't like the cap hit that would likely come with him.

Conversely, that people really think Stepan is better or even equivalent to E. Staal at this point in their respective careers is mind boggling to me. Again, hate Staal's cap hit. And obviously Staal at 29 is older than Step, so there's that. But it's also not like Step is 21 anymore. He's 24 and has had 4 full seasons in the NHL to develop. He could have a few more steps to take in terms of his development, but he could also just be what he's going to be as a player right now. Just looking at the now, Staal is an upgrade to Step (not advocating this; but let's be real - that's what Sather's doing, he isn't thinking long term; which I would have thought was clear with the MSL trade, if not several of the others before that).

I think that Staal + Brassard for ROR and McGinn is more than an even trade that benefits both teams. Actually just ran it by my friend who works for the Avs.

He agreed although he's skeptical that ROR may be on the block, word in Col is that Roy likes his forwards and that he's trying to push Parenteau out the door to make more room to resign Stastny.

But he thinks the value of the trade I listed above seems pretty even. Both teams benefit, given that both teams are able to lock down the centerpiece of the trade to reasonable long term contracts.

 

[RGY]

Perfectly viable option. But you have to figure that AV will have some changes that he wants. Changes of players that fit his playing style better.

The defense is about 30 pts behind what his defenses in Vancouver were producing at. The defensive output in Vancouver was a big reason why he was so successful.

Danny G, Staal, Stralman, Moore, and Klein had a combined 75 points. That might've worked for Torts, but I can't imagine that it works for AV.

Not to say that Allen will add more offense than Staal. But eventually, there will be a progression away from players that only focus on their defensive zone duties. AV took Hamhuis and Edler and made them better players by keeping their defensive abilities relatively consistent.. but getting the most out of them offensively.

If Staal is looked at, eventually, as a guy who doesn't fit the system... i'd argue that his value should be maximized - something the Rangers did not do when they could have maximized Del Zotto's value and completely missed the boat.

Brassard, to me, is a great depth player. He's found his niche here in NY, he never was this comfortable in CBJ.

We need to add some versatility to the team. Not enough grit. Not enough size. We enjoyed being able to skate around teams that weren't big but once we got to LA they made us one dimensional. I think losing 4 players in hopes of improving key positions is pretty good, if it happens, considering we have so many FA's coming up.

And by that logic (which im not necessarily disagreeing with) it doesnt see like McIlrath fits here then. He is not the best of skaters and his offensive skills are not much to write home about. Might as well maximize his value too.

Its tough for me to trade Staal. When he is on, he can line up with the best of them. I thought him and Stralman saved us early in the playoffs when McD/G were not playing well (mainly McD). There are not many defenseman who can play so sound like Staal, big size who gets great positioning on the inside of forwards with that long reach. I'd prefer to keep him over Stralman.

 

[GAGLine]

I'm kind of surprised that as many people were on board with the Staal-Brassard for ROR trade that Blue blooded proposed a couple pages back.

Count me as against. I think that's a significant overpayment for a pending RFA who will be difficult to sign.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

And by that logic (which im not necessarily disagreeing with) it doesnt see like McIlrath fits here then. He is not the best of skaters and his offensive skills are not much to write home about. Might as well maximize his value too.

Its tough for me to trade Staal. When he is on, he can line up with the best of them. I thought him and Stralman saved us early in the playoffs when McD/G were not playing well (mainly McD). There are not many defenseman who can play so sound like Staal, big size who gets great positioning on the inside of forwards with that long reach. I'd prefer to keep him over Stralman.

Yea, I agree about McI, although i've been looking forward to the undertaker doing some damage for us for some years now.

The one deterrent to a McI trade would be if Ulf got a HC gig and Beuk became an Asst. coach to the big club. Beuk thinks Dylan is ready.

And, I know. Staal has been one of my favorite players for years. I was sitting 10 rows up directly in front of Staal the game that he got hit in the eye. When it happened, and you heard the wailing and saw the Ranger flailing around on the ice in pain.. it sucked, but I immediately said "not Staal, please not Staal". Not that I wanted it to happen to anyone else, but I especially didn't want it to happen to him - a guy who had finally come back from that concussion and looked so dominant.

I said this to Hattrick about a week ago, but it's funny how the success of a coach allows you to trust them and their system. I think AV's team could be even more successful with more blue line offense and especially a little bit more size to throw in front of the net. Those are the improvements i'm hoping to see, in addition to keeping the core of this group consistent.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Count me as against. I think that's a significant overpayment for a pending RFA who will be difficult to sign.

I would hope a Staal/Brassard package would net a significantly better center who is locked up longer.

That sort of package, combined with a Sather's pending obsession to upgrade at center, can and will blow a massive hole in this team's depth. Now is not that time to be screwing around with these 2 or 3 for 1 deals, especially when you're talking about current NYR roster players.

 

[TheTakedown]

Thank you for correcting that.

That's so friggin confusing and convoluted. I guess it doesn't make sense then.

I'd love if we could get a decent return for Nash, but I feel like they've invested a lot in him already and will try everything to get him going again (ie: Welcome to NY Joe Thornton )

Yeah, you can bet your entire wallet he is here for at least this upcoming season... beyond that it is dependent on how he plays this upcoming season. Remeber he is only signed through 2017-18, which comes out to 4 more seasons including this, only 3 seasons after this upcoming... so he's coming up to rental territory soon

 

[silverfish]

Not a fan of shipping Brassard with Staal for ROR at all. The point of getting ROR is to beef up the center depth, not replace it.

Send Miller or another prospect with Staal if he alone doesn't get it done.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Not a fan of shipping Brassard with Staal for ROR at all. The point of getting ROR is to beef up the center depth, not replace it.

Send Miller or another prospect with Staal if he alone doesn't get it done.

Again, I think that is a grave mistake... considering that Miller could eventually be a 60+ point player himself.

 

[silverfish]

Again, I think that is a grave mistake... considering that Miller could eventually be a 60+ point player himself.

Don't see that at all from JT. But I'm sure my thoughts on his upside and potential have been played out here, and I'll side-step away from this one

 

[Raspewtin]

To be honest, I don't know who I'd rather trade between Brassard and Miller if that's the case.

Brassard could relieve cap space which we desperately need, but he's pretty proven and very well liked on this team. Miller could be better, and adds size that Brassard doesn't, but that's one big "could". Especially if AV doesn't trust him to play his best position at center.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Don't see that at all from JT. But I'm sure my thoughts on his upside and potential have been played out here, and I'll side-step away from this one

They have been . I'm in the minority.

Sticking with my guns.

 

[jcnyranger]

Would this be so bad for an offseason plan:

I think Boyle and Stralman price themselves out of our range; let Pouliot walk; buy out Richards. Love Carcillo but don't see him back.

So here we go:

Sign Michalek as a FA; Bollard as a FA

Kreider-Stepan-Nash(** see below)
Michalek-Bolland-MSL
Zucc-Brass-Hags
Miller-D.Moore-Dorsett

Fast (need an enforcer type 4th line - i.e. upgrade Carcillo in "cement" dept); Haggerty

McD-Girardi
Staal-Klein
J. Moore-McIlrath
Allen

Henrik-Talbot

Bolland fills faceoff/PK role of Boyle and would be an upgrade IMO. Michalek is a finisher that would not break the bank. Like our speed here; slight upgrade in size up the middle. Still have some pieces to make a deal if needed.

With the buyout of Richards and the money from Boyle/Stralman and cap space going in we can sign the RFAs listed in lineup and should be able to afford Bolland/Michalek. D has potential but can be addressed through trade if needed.

Thoughts?

The *** by Nash is related to some "reports" on blogs that he might be considering retirement due to concussion syndrome (just covering bases here) IF that is the case use some of that money for a guy like Moulson; again only if Nash retires which I doubt

Salaries for above (obvious assumptions on resign value of RFA's) using capgeek limit of $71.1 million

2014-2015
Kreider $2,250,000.00
Nash $7,800,000.00
Stepan $3,075,000.00
St. Louis $5,625,000.00
Michalek $4,500,000.00
Bollard $3,750,000.00
Hagelin $2,250,000.00
Zucc $3,500,000.00
Brassard $3,750,000.00
Dorsett $1,633,333.00
D. Moore $1,250,000.00
Miller $894,167.00
Fast $805,000.00
Haggerty $925,000.00

McD $4,700,000.00
Girardi $5,500,000.00
Staal $3,975,000.00
Klein $2,900,000.00
J. Moore $1,250,000.00
McIlrath $703,333.00
Allen $925,000.00

Henrik $8,500,000.00
Talbot $562,500.00


$71,023,333.00

 

[silverfish]

They have been . I'm in the minority.

Sticking with my guns.

Nothing would make me happier than to eat crow in five years on my current thoughts on Miller. Absolutely nothing. Well, a few things. Winning the lotto, getting back the girl of my dreams, owning a home one day, etc...

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Nothing would make me happier than to eat crow in five years on my current thoughts on Miller. Absolutely nothing. Well, a few things. Winning the lotto, getting back the girl of my dreams, owning a home one day, etc...

Still time for all of those to break your way, and JT to make you eat crow.

 

[pld459666]

I want nothing to do with guys that are heading towards retirement as opposed to guys that are headed towards 30.

The assets needed to part with to acquire combined with the opportunity cost of the funds needed to pay the man add up to alot more than I am willing to spend just to get Nash scoring again.

This is would be a short term solution for a long term problem.

If we are giving up assets for a significant asset, then Thornton is NOT the guy you go after,

 

[TheTakedown]

I think EVERYONE is forgetting that the idea of getting Thornton or O'Reilly is to replace RICHARDS, NOT STEPAN...

 

[NYR89]

I want nothing to do with guys that are heading towards retirement as opposed to guys that are headed towards 30.

The assets needed to part with to acquire combined with the opportunity cost of the funds needed to pay the man add up to alot more than I am willing to spend just to get Nash scoring again.

This is would be a short term solution for a long term problem.

If we are giving up assets for a significant asset, then Thornton is NOT the guy you go after,

Agreed.

 

[Raspewtin]

I want nothing to do with guys that are heading towards retirement as opposed to guys that are headed towards 30.

The assets needed to part with to acquire combined with the opportunity cost of the funds needed to pay the man add up to alot more than I am willing to spend just to get Nash scoring again.

This is would be a short term solution for a long term problem.

If we are giving up assets for a significant asset, then Thornton is NOT the guy you go after,

Someone sticky this post. Pls.

 

[Raspewtin]

On the trade boards, someone posted that Nick Kypreos was on the radio saying the Leafs want Berglund in exchange for Kadri from the Blues.

If that's a 1 for 1, that is seriously selling low on Kadri. I'd love to get in on him as opposed to ROR if that's the case.

 

[silverfish]

I want nothing to do with guys that are heading towards retirement as opposed to guys that are headed towards 30.

The assets needed to part with to acquire combined with the opportunity cost of the funds needed to pay the man add up to alot more than I am willing to spend just to get Nash scoring again.

This is would be a short term solution for a long term problem.

If we are giving up assets for a significant asset, then Thornton is NOT the guy you go after,

Agreed. Pass on Thornton, explore Spezza (I like that he's a righty, and only has one year left), and ROR.

 

[Richter Scale]

I would love to keep Stralman. But if he gets priced out and chases the $$$, what do people think of Dan Boyle as a temporary replacement on a short term contract?

What kind of $$ do we think Dan Boyle commands on the open market? Do we think that because he's an aging player he accepts a bit of a smaller contract from his last? Or do we think he makes it rain?

If it were possible, adding him in at $5 to $5.5 mil per for 1-2 years would be intriguing to me. No clue if that's reasonable for him or something he would accept. But if he took it, it adds the offense on the back end that this team has needed for a while. Helps the PP. And gives our young dmen an extra year or two to develop into their roles instead of thrusting them onto the 2nd pairing before they're ready or even tested there really at all.

You can almost make it work with a cap around $70 mil...

FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($2.250m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.800m) / Derick Brassard ($3.900m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.100m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Daniel Carcillo ($1.000m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Oscar Lindberg ($0.675m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Girardi ($5.500m) / Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan Boyle ($5.500m)
John Moore ($1.500m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Dylan McIlrath ($0.703m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $70,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,148,333; BONUSES: $1,121,667
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): -$1,048,333


Of course he's not a replacement for Brad though, so there is still that hole that would need filling unless we're comfortable relying on one of JT or Lindberg...

 

[The Broadway Hat]

Pass on Staal and Brassard for ROR? You guys wouldn't deal a pending UFA and a dime a dozen third liner for ROR? Yeah he's unsigned but he would sign here. Who wouldn't want to play for us right now? We get him for two years minimum.

Spezza would be amazing too. Another player I would deal Kreider for. Spezza is next level.

Really wish Nash and his ridiculous contract wasn't hampering his team.