That's exactly the same amount of roster turnover (2 new players in and 1 rookie promoted) as my suggestion which RGY flipped out about "TOO MUCH ROSTER TURNOVER!"
Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread
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That's exactly the same amount of roster turnover (2 new players in and 1 rookie promoted) as my suggestion which RGY flipped out about "TOO MUCH ROSTER TURNOVER!"
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
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I really can't behind your notion that Stepan is nothing more than a 2A center but ROR is a legit #1.
I think resigning Boyle is downright imperative.
I can't fathom what losing him will do to this locker room.
What Gardner said. It's a couple pages back in this thread. Granted, they didn't explicitly say "Thornton is being dangled as trade bait." But statements like that rarely happen. I think reading statements like (I'm paraphrasing) "there are fewer names on our list of untouchable players than there are ones on the list we'll entertain offers for" is enough to read between the lines that Thornton and/or Marleau may be on the block.
And I don't buy that just because those two players recently re-signed with SJ means they aren't getting traded. That is called good management of assets. Both have NMC's but we don't know what those look like and those clauses haven't necessarily stopped players from being traded before anyway.
Re-sign then trade is better than letting them walk for nothing if you were already planning on (or thinking about) getting rid of the player. I hope Glen explores that option with Stralman if they can sign him without an NMC/NTC or a severely limited one (even if that would be incredibly ****ed up given what he just said in the media). Be a shame to lose him for nothing whatsoever.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Oh dear god no... I can't see him being a cheap asset to attain. We don't have the picks or the prospects to trade for him either. If we traded some one like Hagelin for Thornton I would ****ing lose it.
I absolutely see 0% chance of the team trading valuable assets for Thornton when our GM in the wings made the highly unpopular and risky move to trade him in his prime for another group of core players.
I see one common link that is driving this speculation and it is that he and Nash are friends and have chemistry and that the Rangers need to have someone to wake up Nash for the playoffs.
********. Nash needs to wake up Nash for the playoffs.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Nash had no problem creating offense on his own in Columbus. Why all the sudden do we have to worry about what Nash needs? Stepan is better than 80% of the C's Nash played with during his time in CLB.
With ROR we would have a 1B, 2A, 2B for our top three centers. Not to shabby. Is ROR a 1A type C? No. Do we have the assets for a 1A type C? No. Getting one through the draft is nothing more than a crapshoot considering we don't have the picks to make a deal for a top 3 pick.
1B is the best we can do and honestly, ROR is good defensively as well. Something that shouldn't be overlooked.
Ror-Step is comparable to Bergeron-Kreiji. Maybe slightly less potential output, but those are damn similar players.
Fleury4ever
Registered User
Richards proved to not be that. But it sounds like you agree because ROR is exactly the type of guy I'm referring to.
It's not controversial to say you'd like Anze Kopitar on your team. He's awesome. How do you get that? For the Kings, Penguins, Blackhawks, Lightning, Ducks, Sharks, Canes, Caps, etc. they all drafted their 1C's.
The Rangers should draft a #1C. Great tip. I think we all agree, and lament any missed opportunities.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
That combination won a cup for boston along with outstanding defense & goaltending (which we have).
Kenjets, i think i want to retain more of the roster. I think i want that D core to stay together. And I was pleasantly surprised in the second half through the playoffs with Brassard. I'd rather take Brassard to arbitration and sign him to what the arbitrator awards to get by this season and then see where we are at after 2015 season.
If it is true that Thornton is available then that is the guy to get. Nash and him have a great relationship. He is a big body at the center position. Have Kreider on the other wing and that is a deadly line.
I think Richards and Boyle are gone. I think Staal doesnt get his contract done this offseason. I'd trade Dorsett and re-sign Carcillo who will save you roughly $500k. Re-sign Stralman. Try and lock up Kreider and Zucc. The last piece is Pouliot. Depends on what he is asking. If he wants too much we can look to within (Fast/Miller) or see what is out there on the FA market, preferrably a big physical winger.
I want that D core to stick together. Give Stralman more term and hopefully save on AAV. Klein has a great contract.
I dont know where McIlrath stands in all this. But that 6 defensemen we have are very, very solid. Could package McIlrath in a deal for Thornton. Hopefully Skjei develops into McDonagh 2.0 and can replace any of the 6 in the next 2-3 years
Mm, but like ROR has like what, never played a PO series in the NHL as a center. Don't get me wrong, I like ROR too. But I think he is starting to get a bit to hyped...
- Sep 17, 2007
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Thank you for correcting that.
That's so friggin confusing and convoluted. I guess it doesn't make sense then.
I'd love if we could get a decent return for Nash, but I feel like they've invested a lot in him already and will try everything to get him going again (ie: Welcome to NY Joe Thornton)
The problem is we don't have the cap space. Buying out Richards will give us just about enough money to re-sign everyone else.
If we are trading for Thornton, significant money has to be moving the other way, or we have to replace players with cheaper, less ready to contribute players.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Vinny DeAngelo
Jimmy Easy to defend
If we get Thornton we can't put him with kreider...
If we get him nash and kreider together our 2nd line is going to be softer than a pillow.
We'd get hags-step-msl talk about a line that would get man handled by big guys
If we get him nash and kreider together our 2nd line is going to be softer than a pillow.
We'd get hags-step-msl talk about a line that would get man handled by big guys
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
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That's fine, but the discrepancy between ROR and Stepan is very marginal. So I'm incredibly hard pressed to call him a #1 center.
This will be the last time i respond to your "intelligence".
No its not the same. Youre "ideas" include removing Nash, Richards, Stepan, and Staal. You want to remove the bigger pieces of this roster. You want to AMNESTY Rick Nash. How delusional and lost are you. Oh wait delusional to think it wouldnt be odd to deal Marc Staal only to bring in his brother Eric. Delusional enough to trade Stepan who has been getting better every year and turned what 24 today? Delusional enough to think adding Allen (complete question mark) and an aging and slower Dan Boyle makes our 6 defenseman good enough to make a deep playoff run because otherwise why would you sign Dan Boyle if that isnt the idea.
Kenjets ideas were much more....here is a word for you...RATIONAL
Getting Thornton also gives us serious cap problems. But you would have to look into it.
Anyway, this is a special situation. Thornton was resigned by SJ -- IIRC -- in like April, right?, and then in June his GM declares that he is rebuilding. The contract he would trade has not yet entered into force.
If Thornton sets his goal on one team he wants to go to, and let Wilson know that he only will waive for that team, Wilson will have very little moral arguments pushing Thornton into waiving for someone else. I mean, he convinced a vet to resign with his team, then before that contract enters into force Wilson changes his mind and want to trade the said vet.
Most likely, of course, Thornton will be too expensive for us in terms of assets not to mention the cap problems we get. However, I wouldn't rule out that between Thornton, his agent, Wilson and Slats, SJ could be pushed into getting a couple avg. assets for Thornton. You know, say Skjei and Kristo/Lindberg or whatever. This is not us trading Leetch, its us convincing Leetch to resign for us, and then before that contract kicks in we change our minds and then dealing him.
Perfectly viable option. But you have to figure that AV will have some changes that he wants. Changes of players that fit his playing style better.
The defense is about 30 pts behind what his defenses in Vancouver were producing at. The defensive output in Vancouver was a big reason why he was so successful.
Danny G, Staal, Stralman, Moore, and Klein had a combined 75 points. That might've worked for Torts, but I can't imagine that it works for AV.
Not to say that Allen will add more offense than Staal. But eventually, there will be a progression away from players that only focus on their defensive zone duties. AV took Hamhuis and Edler and made them better players by keeping their defensive abilities relatively consistent.. but getting the most out of them offensively.
If Staal is looked at, eventually, as a guy who doesn't fit the system... i'd argue that his value should be maximized - something the Rangers did not do when they could have maximized Del Zotto's value and completely missed the boat.
Brassard, to me, is a great depth player. He's found his niche here in NY, he never was this comfortable in CBJ.
We need to add some versatility to the team. Not enough grit. Not enough size. We enjoyed being able to skate around teams that weren't big but once we got to LA they made us one dimensional. I think losing 4 players in hopes of improving key positions is pretty good, if it happens, considering we have so many FA's coming up.
I'm kind of surprised that as many people were on board with the Staal-Brassard for ROR trade that Blue blooded proposed a couple pages back.
Seems to me like a pretty big overpayment and not a trade that helps this team. You're giving up a first pairing defenseman on most teams (and probably on the Avs) and a very solid depth centerman for a good (but not great) centerman. What? Not seeing the fair value there.
Not to mention it severely downgrades NYR's defense, kills the center depth this team may have had if JT Miller can't put it together, and relies on slotting in like 3 rookies - and two of them in pretty friggin significant roles (top 4 d and top 3 C). Ew.
Yea, also this. It feels like Step is being simultaneously over and undervalued in this thread (or other players that have become the next big get aren't evaluated realistically).
I think ROR is better at this point; but not by as large a gap as people are making out. Also don't see him as some elite 1C that solves all of our scoring and center woes. Probably an upgrade over Brad, which would be nice - but not the elite 1C I feel people are making him out to be. And while I say this, I think I like the idea of ROR, because it rounds out the C depth in a way having Brad didn't. But I also don't like the cap hit that would likely come with him.
Conversely, that people really think Stepan is better or even equivalent to E. Staal at this point in their respective careers is mind boggling to me. Again, hate Staal's cap hit. And obviously Staal at 29 is older than Step, so there's that. But it's also not like Step is 21 anymore. He's 24 and has had 4 full seasons in the NHL to develop. He could have a few more steps to take in terms of his development, but he could also just be what he's going to be as a player right now. Just looking at the now, Staal is an upgrade to Step (not advocating this; but let's be real - that's what Sather's doing, he isn't thinking long term; which I would have thought was clear with the MSL trade, if not several of the others before that).
Seems to me like a pretty big overpayment and not a trade that helps this team. You're giving up a first pairing defenseman on most teams (and probably on the Avs) and a very solid depth centerman for a good (but not great) centerman. What? Not seeing the fair value there.
Not to mention it severely downgrades NYR's defense, kills the center depth this team may have had if JT Miller can't put it together, and relies on slotting in like 3 rookies - and two of them in pretty friggin significant roles (top 4 d and top 3 C). Ew.
Yea, also this. It feels like Step is being simultaneously over and undervalued in this thread (or other players that have become the next big get aren't evaluated realistically).
I think ROR is better at this point; but not by as large a gap as people are making out. Also don't see him as some elite 1C that solves all of our scoring and center woes. Probably an upgrade over Brad, which would be nice - but not the elite 1C I feel people are making him out to be. And while I say this, I think I like the idea of ROR, because it rounds out the C depth in a way having Brad didn't. But I also don't like the cap hit that would likely come with him.
Conversely, that people really think Stepan is better or even equivalent to E. Staal at this point in their respective careers is mind boggling to me. Again, hate Staal's cap hit. And obviously Staal at 29 is older than Step, so there's that. But it's also not like Step is 21 anymore. He's 24 and has had 4 full seasons in the NHL to develop. He could have a few more steps to take in terms of his development, but he could also just be what he's going to be as a player right now. Just looking at the now, Staal is an upgrade to Step (not advocating this; but let's be real - that's what Sather's doing, he isn't thinking long term; which I would have thought was clear with the MSL trade, if not several of the others before that).
Frolov of Wraparound
Knighted
Especially being that Stepan played so poorly for a while early in the regular season, after missing camp, and still finished only 7 points behind O'Reilly. They are much closer than people like to admit.
They are in rebuild mode so im not sure what they want.
Teams can retain some salary. We add more with the more they retain.
Likely will lead to Pouliot departing and having a rookie or free agent playing who has less of a cap hit. Sather and Gorton did a great job last offseason getting players for max value. It will have to be done again. It could lead to Stralman departing too. But the Rangers need a center like Thornton.
I said my goal would be to try and retain a majority of the roster. Along the way you may have to concede some things.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Fair enough. They are both good defensively. I'd say ROR is slightly better offensively and is a better skater. It isn't a huge difference but acquiring an even slightly improved version of Stepan would do great things for this team.
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