Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread
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And just to further prove my point, here's a roster the other way around: The compliance buyout used on Nash and the normal buyout used on Richards (penalty would be 1.2mil for eternity (the next 10 years I believe)) But 1.2 mil is nothing. It's the same amount we're currently overpaying if not more on Nash's / Richards' contracts anyway.
In this scenario, Nash (amnesty) and Richards (normal) are bought out;
Stepan+ is traded for Eric Staal (and his massive contract just to prove what kind of options we do have)
Staal is traded for ROR
and most of the rest are the same as the previous scenario.
Here's the CapGeek spread:
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Ryan O'Reilly ($6.000m) / Eric Staal ($8.250m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.675m) / Derick Brassard ($3.700m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.500m)
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Carl Hagelin ($2.250m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.900m) / Dominic Moore ($1.750m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
John Moore ($1.500m) / Anton Stralman ($4.000m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m) / Dan Boyle ($3.500m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Rick Nash ($0.000m)
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($1.222m)
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CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,087,222; BONUSES: $1,200,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,012,778
Again, even with ROR making 6 mil per year, and Eric Staal's gigantic 8+ mil cap-hit, we end up with 1 mil in cap-space for depth/injuries/call-ups/etc
There are clearly options here for Sather and co.
In this scenario, Nash (amnesty) and Richards (normal) are bought out;
Stepan+ is traded for Eric Staal (and his massive contract just to prove what kind of options we do have)
Staal is traded for ROR
and most of the rest are the same as the previous scenario.
Here's the CapGeek spread:
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Ryan O'Reilly ($6.000m) / Eric Staal ($8.250m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.675m) / Derick Brassard ($3.700m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.500m)
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Carl Hagelin ($2.250m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.900m) / Dominic Moore ($1.750m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
John Moore ($1.500m) / Anton Stralman ($4.000m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m) / Dan Boyle ($3.500m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Rick Nash ($0.000m)
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($1.222m)
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CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,087,222; BONUSES: $1,200,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,012,778
Again, even with ROR making 6 mil per year, and Eric Staal's gigantic 8+ mil cap-hit, we end up with 1 mil in cap-space for depth/injuries/call-ups/etc
There are clearly options here for Sather and co.
LaffyTaffyNYR
Registered User
- Feb 25, 2012
- 17,113
- 2,662
Totally disagree with this.. after buying out Richie, if we wanted to keep everyone with a raise we could IMO and if we cant upgrade at center why not?
Because buying out Richards creates just under $7M in cap space.
The raises due to guys like Zuccarello and Boyle would likely immediately eat that up.
I don't like that. I feel like i'm totally coming off as completely biased by continuously having to defend Miller. He's 21. His ceiling is higher than Brassard's. Brassard has never eclipsed 47 points. You're right, he is a known commodity... and a pretty average one at best. He's also going to make at least 3.7 million dollars next year and will probably want north of 4 for a long term deal.
To put that contract demand in perspective - Zucc wants 4.4 for 5 years and will probably take something slightly less than that since that's his starting point in negotiations. In terms of offensive production, Zucc has a 15-20 point higher ceiling than Brassard, and Brassard will want to rival Zucc's contract. No thank you.
JT's production floor in the NHL is Brassard's ceiling. You'd be getting a cheaper center who has similar offensive production and offers more size and grit, to go along with better face-off abilities.
I don't think Brassard is or should be part of this team's core. He's a depth player. Depth players price themselves out after a certain point in order for the team to be able to sign their core players.
Pretty much, what i'm saying is, I'd trade Brassard in a heartbeat to give the same contract to Zuccarello, or Kreider, or Stralman if that's what it had to be done. I wouldn't do that vice versa.
I totally agree.
However, because of Nash's NMC/NTC, I think it could turn into a big headache if
a) he says "No. I want to stay in NY. Deal with it."
or
b) we try to trade him and can't get any good deal without taking back a similarly bad contract which ends up not saving us all that much space and saddling us with someone even worse / just as bad bang for their buck.
He would control which team(s) we would be allowed to trade him to, which immediately diminishes the return because there's no bidding war / competition between a bunch of GM's offers for him. It also limits the choice of player(s) we could acquire in return.
If we do the opposite of what I suggested and use the amnesty/compliance buyout on Nash, and then use a regular buyout on Richards, we'll have 1.2 mil in dead cap-space for the next 10 years or so, but it's only 1.2 mil against the cap (which is actually less than the amount that we're currently overpaying these bums anyway)
Using the amnesty buyout on Nash and then a normal buyout on Richards saves us a ton of cap-space to bring in ROR and another top-6 player either via trade or free agency (not the best selection this year though).
Plenty of creative options for this team. Time to get to work, Glen!
And then there is about 16.5 million that we already have available, before the BR buy out?
With having to sign Moore and Moore, Kreider, Stralman, and Brassard?
If the team wanted to resign everyone, they could.
Boyle is likely gone anyway. He wants a bigger role and AV told him he's going to be a 4th liner if he returns to NY. He said this on breakup day / during exit interviews.
Mac n Gs
Drury plz
- Jan 17, 2014
- 22,835
- 13,558
At no point did he say I'm not coming back.
Honestly, it could have just as well been him posturing for more money because he knows the team can offer him than but can't offer him the bigger role. It's negotiation. I wouldn't read too much into it. He loves NY, has always maintained that he'd like to stay.
Use the amnesty buyout on Nash and his 7.8.
Then use a regular buyout on Richards.
The penalty would be dead cap space for the next DECADE. However, it would only be 1.2 million each year.
Doing this frees up almost 14 million.
Then use a regular buyout on Richards.
The penalty would be dead cap space for the next DECADE. However, it would only be 1.2 million each year.
Doing this frees up almost 14 million.
This is absolutely asinine. We just went to the SCF. And we are gona completely turnover the roster? Is this a ********** video game or do people actually wake up and realize they have to live in the real world with logic and pauses to stop and think?
I hate when these threads go from talking about newsworthy reports/rumors to some guy in his basement talking about his fantasy land.
Could be posturing, but it also could be that he wants a bigger role.
When you say something like that on breakup day after losing in the SCF, it says a lot to me. I'm going to put some stock into it. Boyle could get a nice payday on the open market. Some team will overpay for him for sure. The great defensive performance in the playoffs, the clutch goal in the SCF, the size, the history of scoring 20 goals in a season ;P There will definitely be at least one team to overpay him significantly.
He may have simply said he wants a "bigger role" because he didn't want to say "I want more money than I know the Rangers can pay me"
We'll see, but I think between him and Stralman, he's much more likely to be gone.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
- 13,694
- 1,493
Ah, but there is a hole in your theory...
http://capgeek.com/buyout-calculator/?player_id=690&buyout_y=2014&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=18
take a look at that buyout cap penalty for years 2016-17 thru 2019-20...
$4.6M, then 5.7M per year for all of those years, then another set of 6 years of a $1M penalty...
No, it cannot be done simply because of the cap benefits we reaped in the first 3 years of Brads contract. You'd be better off doing an ordinary buyout on Nash at that rate, since his contract is more "legal" under the new CBA:
http://capgeek.com/buyout-calculator/?player_id=586&buyout_y=2014&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=18
What management could do is approach Nash and give him those two options. Something like:
Rick, here's the deal. We do not think you'll be part of the future of this team, especially given your demands. We think it would be best for us to part ways, but here the paths we're willing to pursue:
1) you waive your NTC and we send you where you are accepted as part of a trade office
2) If you cannot comply with option 1, then we will buy out the remaining years of your contract and you are free to sign with another team...
Almost like an ultimatum... It nets us another $5.2M in cap
Boyle is up there with the guys I'd like to lose least. You're not losing "just a 4th liner" with him, you are also losing a guy that consistently ups his game during the playoffs and is amongst the best PK'ers in the league.
Perhaps more significantly, the Rangers have shown zero ability to develop players like him from the farm.
That said, he'll likely be too expensive, but it'll be one of the bigger holes to fill.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
- 13,694
- 1,493
no, this in incorrect. see link below (from above post). we incur a buyout cap hit penalty of $M for 2016-17, then $5.6M for 2016-17 thru 2017-18 thru 2019-20
http://capgeek.com/buyout-calculator/?player_id=690&buyout_y=2014&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=18
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
It is statements like this that hurt the credibility of the rest of your post. You don't know what JT Millers production floor is. You are speaking in hypotheticals. I am speaking in certainties. JT Miller has yet to produce at the NHL level. That is the only certainty we know regarding JT Miller. There are plenty of things he may do right but he needs to produce in order to be effective. That is what separates those who play in the NHL from those who don't.
Usually, when "star" players play like dog **** in the playoffs one year, they use it as heavy motivation the following year.
Ex: Manu Ginobili.
I wouldn't trade Nash this year. He was concussed, had a slow start from that injury, and still led the team in scoring with 26 goals.
Last year he was producing at a ppg pace. He is one of two guys even remotely capable of scoring north of 30 goals on this team. I wouldn't trade that, yet.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
People look at it like a video game. Trading Stepan++++ for Barkov.
Half the team for Tomas Hertl. Turn over half the roster and leave 10 million in cap room for 10 more players. I wonder how half of these people make it through their daily lives without getting seriously injured if this is how their mind works.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
There is a difference between a lot of turnover vs an NHL 14 style overhaul.
That's kind of a check mate until proven. Can't argue with you. I am speaking in hypotheticals about JT's offensive ceiling. My belief is that at the very least he could provide what Derick does at a cheaper rate.
Whether he does it or not, you are right, remains to be seen.
Actually it leaves you over the cap, as it's projected to be ~$70M. Not to mention you're not carrying a spare defender and forward, which is an absolute necessity. Nobody in the NHL rolls a 20 man roster.
You've also eliminated all RH shooting options from our top-9 forwards.
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