Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread IV

[Zil]

Because u wrote Kane was Prucha until proven otherwise....

No I didn't write that Kane was Prucha. I wrote that GWOW's criteria for proven 30 goal scorer put Prucha in the same category.

Kane is a LW. Poulouit is likely gone. Stralman as well.

Rangers need scoring at forward and defense positions.

Rangers will have a different roster next season for sure, but it doesn't have to be crappy one

So we should let Pouliot walk because we don't have the cap space for him and replace him with someone even more expensive and who will cost us our only major trade chip? That makes no sense. If we're moving Staal, then it has to be for an upgrade down the middle. That's where we need the help.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Puck possession is a tangible result. Making the Stanley Cup Final is definitely a tangible result. Without Stralman we'd spend way less time in the offensive zone and way more time in the defensive zone. We'd inevitably give up more goals and score fewer. That's what happens when the other team has the puck more frequently.

I get it. Having the puck is the best defense.

But, for me, that alone doesnt make Stralman worth his asking price.

On the flip side, if the team has the puck so much when Stralman is on the ice, why has the goal scoring prowess of the team been relatively stagnant? And more importantly, why are Stralman's offensive numbers pretty abysmal?

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Maybe I'm missing something but I thought at the trade deadline when he said he didn't want to play for AV anymore people stopped bringing it up.

AV had a minor issue with Kesler that the Vancouver media considered a malingering accusation.

Keslers best seasons were under AV so if he hates him it must be personal, not hockey related.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

If Stralman walks, we aren't going to trade Staal. So how in the hell are we trading for Kane?

 

[TheTakedown]

this makes grabbing grabovski more critical

 

[NYR Viper]

If Pouliot leaves, I am hoping the Rangers take a hard look at Raymond. He would fit the speed game this team has built. I don't think he would be that expensive either.

 

[NYR Viper]

this makes grabbing grabovski more critical

If Stralman walks, I expect they will be more involved in the centers available

 

[Ail]

https://twitter.com/renlavoietva/status/482231523211763713

Not a surprise that many of these players want to cash in on the success the Rangers had.

Once again the Rangers inability to finish comes back to haunt them.

Can't finish plays, can't finish 'Cup runs, can't finish contracts.

Season's over.

 

[TheTakedown]

If Stralman walks, I expect they will be more involved in the centers available

Exactly. If Stralman does walk, then we can't trade for one though, which means we're going to run:

Stepan-Grabovski-Brassard-Moore

I wouldn't hate that... I guess if miller can go on Grabovski's or Brassard's wing, it won't be so bad

If Pouliot leaves, I am hoping the Rangers take a hard look at Raymond. He would fit the speed game this team has built. I don't think he would be that expensive either.

Not a bad idea. Derek Roy should also be looked at as well

 

[NikC]

No I didn't write that Kane was Prucha. I wrote that GWOW's criteria for proven 30 goal scorer put Prucha in the same category.



So we should let Pouliot walk because we don't have the cap space for him and replace him with someone even more expensive and who will cost us our only major trade chip? That makes no sense. If we're moving Staal, then it has to be for an upgrade down the middle. That's where we need the help.

Shortened seasons aside Kane was on pace for 25+ this and last season.
Why wouldn't it make sense to pursue a player like that at 22 who's also big?

And the discussion was to add Buff in the deal since its rumoured they both available.


Center isn't our only need, and based on the options available it doesn't look likr anyone's within reach to make an improvement. ..

 

[Zil]

1) Stralman is a very good defender

Agreed.

2) Stralman should give the Rangers the opportunity to resign him.

There's no indication that this isn't happening.

3) Stralman having his best season has something to do with his walk year.

We have three seasons of data on Stralman in a Rangers uniform. He's been fantastic the entire time.

4) Stralman does not play the power play

Stralman doesn't play on the powerplay because of inexplicable coaching decisions. Girardi gets powerplay time for some reason. That doesn't mean he's a good offensive player.

5) Stralman may be the the third of six dmen to make 5 million or more and provide little offense.

I'm of the opinion that Staal should be used as a trade chip. Paying Girardi and letting Stralman walk would be really, really dumb.

6) if the Rangers can turn a scrap heap project into a top-4 why can't they do it again?

Stralman always had the underlying skill level to be this caliber of player. Just because several prior teams failed to recognize his value doesn't mean he didn't have it prior to coming here. Right handed defensemen who do what Stralman does are exceedingly rare.

As for Kane:

Prucha went from 30 to 22 to 7 goals in his first three seasons.

His highest scoring seasons were 44, 40 and 22.

He hasn't played in the NHL since 2011.

Kane scored 30/19/19 his best three seasons and 57/43/41 scoring.

But in 2013 his GPG/PPG over 82 games was 29g/56p

I mean, comparing (or trying to compare) Prucha to Kane was a classic Strawman that I shouldn't have wasted my time on.

I wasn't literally comparing Kane to Prucha. I was saying your criteria for proven 30 goal scorers is fairly weak.

Kane is better than Kreider. That doesn't mean Kreider isnt a good player who may one day exceed Kane's production.

Stop being homers.

The numbers don't support that. The numbers say they're very, very close. The big difference is that Kane is getting paid a $5.25 cap hit and would cost a significant trade asset to acquire.

 

[Ail]

Well now that it looks like Poo poo is getting flushed I hope they give the 'Hawks a call and see if Morin can be had cheaply.

 

[offdacrossbar]

we dont need to move on any wingers. we need a centerman to compliment derek stepan.

we are set top 6 on the wing. can we get better ? sure, but we have more pressing needs.

we lose stralman and resign staal, we need to replace stralman with an offensive type guy. nisky or boyle. staal is offensively empty. he and girardi together are offensively barren.

and if we lose stralman and resign staal, we arent trading staal for a center. back to the ufa's.

having staal, girardi and kleiner in the top 9 leaves us with mcd and john moore to move pucks and play all zones. we cannot afford to be offensively inept from the blueline again.

we will have to let stral, boyle and poo walk to consider a guy like stasny.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

On the subject of Evander Kane, whose name has been bandied about in all sorts of trade rumors, Cheveldayoff would only say, “From an organization standpoint, we’re going to listen to everybody. If there’s a [player on the Jets] that a team has an interest in, my phone is open for a phone call. But that shouldn’t be categorized that anything is imminent, or that I’ve got deals on the table, or not.â€
Later, Cheveldayoff bristled slightly when asked if Kane, 22, has asked to be traded.
“These kind of questions are really unfair,†he said. “There’s lots of conversations that go on [during the season]. Certainly there was levels of frustration at different points in time for individual players. From our standpoint, Evander is a Winnipeg Jet. There’s been lots of different rumors out there. At this point in time, this is how we’re going to proceed.â€

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/26/chevy-from-our-standpoint-evander-is-a-winnipeg-jet/


Non-denial denial. Classic GM speak.

Kane would love NY.

 

[Blue Blooded]

If, god forbid, the Rangers let Strålman walk we need to go HARD for Tom Gilbert. He's not as good as Strålman, but he is still pretty damn good - plays very well against top competition.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Well now that it looks like Poo poo is getting flushed I hope they give the 'Hawks a call and see if Morin can be had cheaply.

Morin would be an ideal replacement.

 

[GAGLine]

having staal, girardi and kleiner in the top 9 leaves us with mcd and john moore to move pucks and play all zones. we cannot afford to be offensively inept from the blueline again.

Which is why I think it would be smart to move Staal for a younger dman with offensive upside. Don't know who that is or when that player would be able to make a significant contribution, but I would definitely explore it rather than wait for Staal to hit free agency next year and then overpay him or let him walk.

we will have to let stral, boyle and poo walk to consider a guy like stasny.

I want no part of Stastny. We got as far as we did because we had depth. Adding another big contract like that will kill our depth.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

If, god forbid, the Rangers let Strålman walk we need to go HARD for Tom Gilbert. He's not as good as Strålman, but he is still pretty damn good - plays very well against top competition.

Gilbert or Fayne could be solid replacements for Stralman. Both right handed and have good underlying numbers.

 

[Zil]

On the flip side, if the team has the puck so much when Stralman is on the ice, why has the goal scoring prowess of the team been relatively stagnant?

Because shooting percentage is a highly variable number that bounces up and down a ton. The Kings had a horrible shooting percentage during the regular season and a fantastic shooting percentage in the playoffs. The constant was their possession game.

And more importantly, why are Stralman's offensive numbers pretty abysmal?

Stralman's very good at creating puck possession, but not necessarily great at turning that possession into goals on his own. On the flip side, players like St. Louis and Brassard are not good at creating possession, but they are good at taking advantage if other players create possession for them. Ideally, you'd like to have players that do both, but especially for defensemen I'm more concerned with having them drive possession than actually put up points.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Agreed.



There's no indication that this isn't happening.



We have three seasons of data on Stralman in a Rangers uniform. He's been fantastic the entire time.



Stralman doesn't play on the powerplay because of inexplicable coaching decisions. Girardi gets powerplay time for some reason. That doesn't mean he's a good offensive player.



I'm of the opinion that Staal should be used as a trade chip. Paying Girardi and letting Stralman walk would be really, really dumb.



Stralman always had the underlying skill level to be this caliber of player. Just because several prior teams failed to recognize his value doesn't mean he didn't have it prior to coming here. Right handed defensemen who do what Stralman does are exceedingly rare.



I wasn't literally comparing Kane to Prucha. I was saying your criteria for proven 30 goal scorers is fairly weak.



The numbers don't support that. The numbers say they're very, very close. The big difference is that Kane is getting paid a $5.25 cap hit and would cost a significant trade asset to acquire.

Ok. Difference of opinion and speculation. It's a speculation thread.
We're both speculating.

There's no way of telling Stralman's value until after he's gone or after this season.

 

[Cliffy1814]

Thoughts on Mike Santorelli as an inexpensive UFA option for bottom 6.
Plays Center and wing IIRC. Quick feet, great motor, has a decent touch who fits AV style.
Type of guy who could give nice production as a third line center if Miller is not ready to assume that role or is deemed at better fit as a winger.

I am assuming Benny is gone and we are not legit players for any of the big centers out there.

 

[17futurecap]

Gilbert or Fayne could be solid replacements for Stralman. Both right handed and have good underlying numbers.

When you go through the UFA dmen list, those two seem like the only two guys that would come cheaper and be suitable replacements for Stralman.

It's just brutal that someone like Nikitin gets paid 4.5 million a year.

 

[Charlie Conway]

If Morin can be had, I'd push hard. Acquiring Morin and keeping Stralman would be big for this team.

We'd still need to go about finding a 2 or 3 C and a 4th LW, but we'd (ideally) have nice, young LW depth in Kreider, Hags, and Morin. I'd love that move. Even the RW would be pretty stacked going into this year. The main thing would be finding (or promoting) a capable C.


Even if Stralman walks, we'd have a spot to bring in some kind of PMD.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Gilbert or Fayne could be solid replacements for Stralman. Both right handed and have good underlying numbers.

I'm sceptical of anyone coming out of the Devils and their weird system. No one suppresses shots like the Devils, but their percentages are always in the toilet. Something is amiss there.

I think Fayne is likely to be really good, but he has an asterisk in my book - would prefer Gilbert even at a higher price.

 

[bernmeister]

Would it be too outlandish to suggest trading Girardi? This guy while a good top 4 defender has carried down the play of McDonagh. I'd love to see what Stralman can do alongside McDonagh for a full season as they're limited time together on the ice showcased dominance in play.

As a Girardi replacement, it'll be tough. But I think signing a guy like Mark Fayne as a reclamation project would be a good replacement. Efficient puck mover with untapped defensive potential. Could be Stralman 2.0.

After that keep Staal until the deadline and trade him if he's not willing to agree to an extension similarly to Callahan.

No, and btw,
we've always thought he was a leafs fan growing up, if push comes to shove, even with NMC, if we say, hey, we love ya, but were screwed, and we can't afford everybody, we gotta trade ya, real honest like, I think if it's to a team that works for him, he does it.

Tor is not the immediate win now of others, but it is the boyhood attachment.
Also, if they move Phaneuf for offense to say Edmonton, Girardi would actually be a cheaper, more defensively sound option, good for mentoring young d.

Girardi + rights to Stralman
for
Kadri + Gardiner ?
Remember Leafs would unload Phaneuf for offense.

Gardiner
Klein
McIlrath/Diaz and we added Kadri