Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread IV

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BlueshirtBlitz

Foolish Samurai
Aug 2, 2010
21,431
30
New York
Weird...

Playoffs:

Klein: +7
Stralman: +4

Klein: 4 points
Stralman: 5 points

Quality of Competition:
Klein: 27.4%
Stralman: 29.3%

Quality of Teammates:
Klein: 25.5%
Stralman: 27.3%

Corsi:
Klein: +5.9% relative to the rest of the team
Stralman: +2.5% relative to the rest of the team

Deployment:
Klein: 21.8% defensive zone
Stralman: 38.3% defensive zone

Look, ma! Stats! Not just blatant thrown out opinions!

Stralman had the better teammates, faced barely better competition, and was deployed a ton more in the neutral zone. Stralman played with Staal. Klein played with Moore and Diaz.

Klein can hang. And if it's Stralman @$5m per, or Klein @2.9m per, I take Klein every. day.

Yeah, Klein was better in the playoffs than he was in the regular season.

You seem to disregard how large the discrepancy in deployment is. Stralman started against tougher competition in the tougher zone MUCH MORE than Klein did. Klein and Moore went up against the weakest competition on the team, it's not a surprise that Klein did better. For 3 million a year, he BETTER be doing decently. That is a significant QoC difference.

And of course, 20~ games is a small sample size that doesn't account for the significantly better play of Stralman in the past 200+ NHL games.
 

NYR Viper

Registered User
Sep 9, 2007
47,792
18,364
Jacksonville, FL
There is something to be said. Nashville made a bad trade.

And if you think Nashville has been "defensively inferior" over the last several years, you should check again.

The Rangers tried the same with with their Rozsival for Wolski deal. They tried to bring in someone with more offensive upside for Rozsival who, for all of the crap he received, was a solid defenseman for this team.

It didn't work out for the Rangers.

What is redundant on one team (Klein) may not be elsewhere.
 

LundqvistsEvilTwin

Registered User
Jun 26, 2014
108
0
detroit
maybee that prospect can be good fill a good prospect need elsewhere throw money at stastny nd roll richards on the 4th... like trading tony amonte for a cup
 

17futurecap

Registered User
Oct 8, 2008
19,847
16,085
NJ
Weird...

Playoffs:

Klein: +7
Stralman: +4

Klein: 4 points
Stralman: 5 points

Quality of Competition:
Klein: 27.4%
Stralman: 29.3%

Quality of Teammates:
Klein: 25.5%
Stralman: 27.3%

Corsi:
Klein: +5.9% relative to the rest of the team
Stralman: +2.5% relative to the rest of the team

Deployment:
Klein: 21.8% defensive zone
Stralman: 38.3% defensive zone

Look, ma! Stats! Not just blatant thrown out opinions!

Stralman had the better teammates, faced barely better competition, and was deployed a ton more in the defensive zone. Stralman played with Staal. Klein played with Moore and Diaz.

Klein can hang. And if it's Stralman @$5m per, or Klein @2.9m per, I take Klein every. day.

That quality of comp number is a huge difference, even though it doesn't look like it. Stralman played with better teammates because he is on the ice vs much harder competition.
 

Zil

Shrug
Feb 9, 2006
5,559
43
Too many stats these days. I'm going by my eyes. I like Stralman. He's improved over the last three seasons as a Ranger and was great value. If he's no longer of great value and actually, then I'm not upset if the bank isn't broken for him and there is some kind of plan B.

What kind of response is that? You don't trust the numbers because there's too many of them? The stats illuminate the places your eyes can't normally see. The numbers give you context. They're not even complicated numbers. All they're saying is that the Rangers have the puck far more when Stralman is on the ice than when Girardi or Klein is on the ice.
 

NYR Viper

Registered User
Sep 9, 2007
47,792
18,364
Jacksonville, FL
What kind of response is that? You don't trust the numbers because there's too many of them? The stats illuminate the places your eyes can't normally see. The numbers give you context. They're not even complicated numbers. All they're saying is that the Rangers have the puck far more when Stralman is on the ice than when Girardi or Klein is on the ice.

I'm not really a stats guy, but couldn't that also be based on who the forward are on the ice? For example, who played the most with the Brassard line. They play a much heavier puck possession game.
 

Zuccarello Awesome*

Guest
But here is the thing, Stralman wins the stats argument AND the eye test to anyone who paid attention while watching (in other words, doesn't drink and impare themselves while watching).

Over the last three seasons Stralman has been the most consistent defenseman behind McDonagh and Girardi. Not Staal. Stralman. The stats, the injury history, and the "eye test" confirm.

We are arguing over what is going to be a few hundred thousand dollars and a couple of extra years to keep the better player at this point in time. But because Staal was a former 1st round pick of the Rangers and used to fill the spot McDonagh currently fills, shrouds people from the truth, which is he hasn't been the same since the mutiple head injuries. His feet and his hands don't keep up enough to warrant the 6+ million per year on a long-term contract he will demand.

Stralman is currently and by all indications will continue to be moving forward, the better player, and he will be paid less than Staal starting next summer.

Furthermore, the cap will likely rise again next summer and a contract like 4.5 x 6 for Stralman will be a bargain.

Who is replacing Stralman? McIlrath (eventually)? Another slow-footed defender to pair with overpaid and slow-footed Staal? That pair would look like pylons against teams with average speed.

Spot-on. Well said.
 

SupersonicMonkey*

Guest
I love Stralman but he's not better than Marc Staal.

Disagree.

Four years ago he wasn't. Then Staal suffered at least two major concussions and a major eye injury.

Meanwhile during that time frame, Stralman blossomed and developed into the better player and the better fit for Vigneault's system.
 

LiveLongandProspal

NY Rangers = America's Team
May 29, 2010
11,691
12,297
New York City
Bye bye, Pou?


Renaud Lavoie ‏@renlavoietva 7s
Around 10 teams showed interest so far to Benoit Pouliot. He's looking for a long term contract and he will get it. #tvasports #rangers
 

Steve Kournianos

@thedraftanalyst
It took a long time to replace those players. Or, do you not recall 12-13 and the lack of depth?

Stralman will be replaced by who? When?

Yes he is a part of the core.

A long time?

Record-wise, the 2013 Rangers were as good as the 2014 Rangers.

You do realize there are other free agent defensemen right?

And considering the Rangers' success with Stralman, why can't they duplicate it with someone cheaper, maybe younger?

There's a salary cap. Overpaying Stralman and ignoring other options could hurt the team later on.
 

Bleed Ranger Blue

Registered User
Jul 18, 2006
19,799
1,811
What kind of response is that? You don't trust the numbers because there's too many of them? The stats illuminate the places your eyes can't normally see. The numbers give you context. They're not even complicated numbers. All they're saying is that the Rangers have the puck far more when Stralman is on the ice than when Girardi or Klein is on the ice.

So thats the conclusion you come to with these stats?

How about how the Rangers team goal scoring hasn't moved a bit as a result? Or, more importantly, how Stralman's individual offense is non-existent?

I think Stralman is better than Klein, but not by the amount he'll be overpaid this offseason.
 

Zuccarello Awesome*

Guest
What kind of response is that? You don't trust the numbers because there's too many of them? The stats illuminate the places your eyes can't normally see. The numbers give you context. They're not even complicated numbers. All they're saying is that the Rangers have the puck far more when Stralman is on the ice than when Girardi or Klein is on the ice.

Sure, and to draw causality from that and laud Stralman alone is extremely silly.

The Rangers are 19-2 on Wednesdays in March when it rains for more than 1 hour.

Not all statistics show cause and effect.
 

Cassano

Registered User
Aug 31, 2013
25,610
3,818
GTA
Bye bye, Pou?


Renaud Lavoie ‏@renlavoietva 7s
Around 10 teams showed interest so far to Benoit Pouliot. He's looking for a long term contract and he will get it. #tvasports #rangers

Oh man, not a good start at all to the offseason. Pouliot is a really good 3rd line player.
 

JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK

Twenty f*ckin years
Oct 8, 2010
79,463
16,898
Losing Stralman and Pouliot will likely hurt us big time in the short term.

Not feeling as good about next season as I was before.
 

Zuccarello Awesome*

Guest
I didn't plan on bringing back Pouliot anyway.

He had his moments but he was largely a product of Zuccarello's breakout season.
 
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