Speculation: 2013 Offseason Thread Part IV: Streit's rights to PHI for 2014 4th Rounder

[bernmeister]

On the Schenn vs Couturier debate, it should be pointed out that both players played almost exactly the same amount of minutes this year. But their ice time was divided up differently.

Schenn got a minute more PP time and over a minute more ES time per game, while Couturier had over 2 minutes more PK time per game. 10 of Schenn's 26 points came on the PP while 4 of Couturier's 15 points came on the PP.

And I'd wage that, more often than not, Schenn played with offensively gifted linemates than Couturier did.

I think it's premature to say which one will be the better offensive player. IMO, Couturier is the more intriguing player because of his size and defensive abilities. Let's not forget the numbers he put up in juniors. If he can figure out the offensive side in the NHL, he's going to be a hell of a player.

insightful post, thanks

 

[TheRedViper]

I've noticed that about 80% of the speculation in this thread has been about landing Edmonton's #7. Have I missed an article or something that has actually connected us to that pick, or is it simply just speculation on our part because Edm is looking to part with the pick...?

 

[bernmeister]

for me, the tools are there. And this is not blaming Torts. I just didn't think that the system that Torts employs plays to Kreider's strengths.

Kreider should not be slowed by a system that doesn't open the game up for a guy like Kreider to use his speed.

The flip side to that is that Kreider should have done more in Torts system as he is still a big bodied kid that could have and should have used his size to separate player from puck more regularly.

That said, Kredier has a great shot and great speed. Playing him opposite of Nash in a system that has offensive flow will naturally put Kredier in position to use his size, speed and shot to his advantage. Something I didn't think was happening for him before.

That and the fact that he probably won't have to worry about getting benched after EVERY little mistake.

100% agree

 

[Kershaw]

Admittedly, I don't watch many Edm games so I have a few questions.

I doubt either of these trades happen anyways but I'd still like to know just in case

Thanks for answering

I watch a lot of Oilers games. I don't have any other favorite team, but I think they may be the closest along with CBJ. I'll try to help as best I can.

• Is Yakupov one dimensional? I have heard people comparing him to Gaborik.

Right now, Yakupov is definitely one-dimensional. Really, most scoring wingers entering the league are. But a big prowess to his game is his supreme work ethic. He played PK with Sarnia and I believe he does have the talent to translate into a decent defensive winger, but I don't see why that should happen right now.

Gaborik was a good defensive player IMO for a pure goal scorer type. I don't think the two are similar. Yakupov can do crazy stuff at full speed with puck on his stick that I haven't seen from Gaborik,

•What is Paajarvi's upside?

Hard to tell. He has the tools, speed, size, hands, but doesn't have the hockey IQ to match those tools IMO. I remember he had a bunch of hype on these boards, I believe he was at one point the 5th best prospect on HockeysFuture and predictions of Hossa-lite were brought up. I watched him this year and I thought he and Yakupov made a formidable duo, not great, but plausible. He has definitely changed his playing style to a more powerforward approach than the finesse skill that was originally thought of. I think he can be a fine 3LWer for the future.

•How does Yak compare to the other Big 4 in Edm?

I'd have them ranked as the following:

Hall
RNH
Yakupov
Eberle

I feel Eberle is a tier below the other three.

 

[Trxjw]

I've noticed that about 80% of the speculation in this thread has been about landing Edmonton's #7. Have I missed an article or something that has actually connected us to that pick, or is it simply just speculation on our part because Edm is looking to part with the pick...?

It's based on reports that they're shopping the pick, as well as some articles tying Del Zotto to them as a possible trade target. Plus RB's own remarks about Howson taking a role with the Oilers and he's long had interest in Del Zotto.

 

[Trxjw]

So DZ for MPS and a 7th is enough to make the deal? I would do that no problem. Yakupov would be awesome, but that's highly unrealistic.

Depends on who is there at #7 for me, but I'd at least consider it either way.

 

[bernmeister]

Del Zotto
Zuccarello
Skjei/McIlrath

Might be what they ask for, and you work it from there. I think Zucc would be a perfect fit in their system, he's cheap, and does a lot of the sort of things that made their fans overvalue Hemsky so much, so that could be a good pitch. We only have 2 good dman prospects, so I included them as an either/or.


BTW guys, Dominic Moore is not a Boyle replacement. Totally different players. Moore might be more of a Matt Cullen replacement.

They continue to hold out for McD, and only McD.

A package of
Staal/MDZ
+ Girardi
+ X has been consistently rebuffed.

If we're trading McD --- and I am not saying we are, but IF --- then I want 1st overall (McK) + flipping MDZ (drafted like 22/23 overall) for Siemens (drafted like 8th overall and potentially another Doug Hamilton)

 

[TheRedViper]

It's based on reports that they're shopping the pick, as well as some articles tying Del Zotto to them as a possible trade target. Plus RB's own remarks about Howson taking a role with the Oilers and he's long had interest in Del Zotto.

Thanks

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

I like Schenn more then Couturier.

Schenn is tougher, faster, and arguably more skilled. He's a leader. He's pretty much everything you want in a future #1 center.

Couturier has skill, but he's not a great skater, and he's better defensively then he is offensively.

I like Schenn's mix of toughness, skill, speed. He's also no dummy.

 

[KreidertheGlider]

100% agree

Before I start taking I want it to be known I am a big Kreider fan.

There are 2 different ways people look at how Kreider played this year.

It was Tort's fault or it was Kreider's fault.

I think even though he isn't built for Tort's system, he could have done something. He used his speed once in the reg season that I can remember. ONCE!

He might have been too busy taking care of his assignments but he didn't really do anything productive.

The reason for Kreider's low production is Kreider.

I will admit, Torts should have either kept him up in the NHL or kept him in the AHL.

In the future he can't just skip his defensive assignments like in the 2012 playoffs. He needs to find a balance of offense and defense.

My favorite attribute of Kreider is that he kicks it up a notch in the playoffs. He looked 1000% better in the playoffs this year than this regular season

 

[bernmeister]

Before I start taking I want it to be known I am a big Kreider fan.

There are 2 different ways people look at how Kreider played this year.

It was Tort's fault or it was Kreider's fault.

I think even though he isn't built for Tort's system, he could have done something. He used his speed once in the reg season that I can remember. ONCE!

He might have been too busy taking care of his assignments but he didn't really do anything productive.

The reason for Kreider's low production is Kreider.

I will admit, Torts should have either kept him up in the NHL or kept him in the AHL.

In the future he can't just skip his defensive assignments like in the 2012 playoffs. He needs to find a balance of offense and defense.

My favorite attribute of Kreider is that he kicks it up a notch in the playoffs. He looked 1000% better in the playoffs this year than this regular season

The shackles are less tight then.

 

[KreidertheGlider]

The shackles are less tight then.

I agree to some extent.

I'm sure a new coach will do wonders for his development, but it worries me that he is invisible if a coach holds him defensively responsible.

I'm going to withhold frm declaring him a legend until I see how's he plays next season. I fell for that last offseason.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

If anyone's interested, I wrote an article about the upcoming offseason, mainly focusing on our RFAs.

And, yes, I'm a partner, my modness just hides that

Appreciate any feedback.

 

[GAGLine]

It was Tort's fault or it was Kreider's fault.

I have a 3rd perspective. When Kreider came into the playoffs last year, he wasn't asked to do much other than get in on the forecheck and play his game. This year, Torts expected him to play both sides of the puck and he simply wasn't ready to do it all at the NHL level.

It's not anyone's fault. Torts held Kreider to the same standard he held everyone else. Kreider struggled as most players do in their first professional season.

The argument can be made that Kreider was worried about getting benched or sent down, and there's probably some truth to that. He wouldn't be the first player to go through that. That doesn't mean that Torts was stunting his growth. I think everyone would acknowledge that Kreider was better at the end of the season than he was at the beginning. His AHL numbers certainly reflected that.

Kreider will be fine. Once he gets comfortable with the defensive side, the offense will start coming.

 

[KreidertheGlider]

I have a 3rd perspective. When Kreider came into the playoffs last year, he wasn't asked to do much other than get in on the forecheck and play his game. This year, Torts expected him to play both sides of the puck and he simply wasn't ready to do it all at the NHL level.

It's not anyone's fault. Torts held Kreider to the same standard he held everyone else. Kreider struggled as most players do in their first professional season.

The argument can be made that Kreider was worried about getting benched or sent down, and there's probably some truth to that. He wouldn't be the first player to go through that. That doesn't mean that Torts was stunting his growth. I think everyone would acknowledge that Kreider was better at the end of the season than he was at the beginning. His AHL numbers certainly reflected that.

Kreider will be fine. Once he gets comfortable with the defensive side, the offense will start coming.

I'm not questioning your opinion, but how do you explain his lack of production in the AHL?

 

[RangerBoy]

It's based on reports that they're shopping the pick, as well as some articles tying Del Zotto to them as a possible trade target. Plus RB's own remarks about Howson taking a role with the Oilers and he's long had interest in Del Zotto.

Scott Howson is the Oilers Senior VP of Hockey Operations. He has always like Del Zotto. Sather inquired about re-acquiring Tyutin. Howson wanted Del Zotto. In the Nash trade,Howson wanted Del Zotto. Lowe and MacTavish have discussed trading the pick. I heard MacT on Mark Spectors show last week discuss trading the pick. They want a player who fits the age group of their core keys. DZ is the same age as Eberle. They are both 23. Hall is 21. RNH is 20. They aren't trading the pick for an older player.

 

[Ola]

Yak is today as one dimensional as Pat Kane is, today. You want Yak to be a Pat Kane (but a bit of a diffrent type of course). To have someone who you can give the puck and let him create.

Pääjärvi is a really gifted player who always has played his best hockey in traffic. His style is not the one of a franchise player, he just doesn't get involved enough. But he could definitely become awesome in a Marian Hossa in Chi role. Don't underestimate him be because he is a young draft pick who still hasn't put up great numbers. Everywhere he goes he sees the back of Hall and Eberle. There are on avg like three players per team in this league who scores 40 pts in a full year. EDM for a good reason wants to give RNH, Hall and Yak the best opertunity to develop, and you cannot play 18-21 y/o's only so besides Eberle and decent guys like Gagner and co, they also have vets. How many pts would we get from Kreider at LW if we had Hall and Eberle infront of him? 30?

MPS just have not been given a shot yet.

I would think very long and hard before picking Barkov/Lindholm (with the 7th) over MPS. All three have potential. Looking back at them 5-8 years from now, one of them could make you look stupid. I don want to look stupid, but I think it's very hard picking the two kids over MPS...

 

[Kershaw]

I'm all for trading MDZ for the 7th in Monahan, Lindholm or Nichushkin are there.

 

[NYR Viper]

If anyone's interested, I wrote an article about the upcoming offseason, mainly focusing on our RFAs.

And, yes, I'm a partner, my modness just hides that

Appreciate any feedback.

BB it was a good read. I agree with pretty much all of it as well.

Scott Howson is the Oilers Senior VP of Hockey Operations. He has always like Del Zotto. Sather inquired about re-acquiring Tyutin. Howson wanted Del Zotto. In the Nash trade,Howson wanted Del Zotto. Lowe and MacTavish have discussed trading the pick. I heard MacT on Mark Spectors show last week discuss trading the pick. They want a player who fits the age group of their core keys. DZ is the same age as Eberle. They are both 23. Hall is 21. RNH is 20. They aren't trading the pick for an older player.

Yet another connection with Howson who I know for a fact scouted MDZ VERY hard for a Nash deal. I was at MSG a year ago the game before the deadline and there were (2) CLB scouts sitting right behind me. They would sit back in their chairs until MDZ came out on the ice which is when they pushed their stop watches as well. It was as clear as day who they were looking at.

Yak is today as one dimensional as Pat Kane is, today. You want Yak to be a Pat Kane (but a bit of a diffrent type of course). To have someone who you can give the puck and let him create.

Pääjärvi is a really gifted player who always has played his best hockey in traffic. His style is not the one of a franchise player, he just doesn't get involved enough. But he could definitely become awesome in a Marian Hossa in Chi role. Don't underestimate him be because he is a young draft pick who still hasn't put up great numbers. Everywhere he goes he sees the back of Hall and Eberle. There are on avg like three players per team in this league who scores 40 pts in a full year. EDM for a good reason wants to give RNH, Hall and Yak the best opertunity to develop, and you cannot play 18-21 y/o's only so besides Eberle and decent guys like Gagner and co, they also have vets. How many pts would we get from Kreider at LW if we had Hall and Eberle infront of him? 30?

MPS just have not been given a shot yet.

I would think very long and hard before picking Barkov/Lindholm (with the 7th) over MPS. All three have potential. Looking back at them 5-8 years from now, one of them could make you look stupid. I don want to look stupid, but I think it's very hard picking the two kids over MPS...

I agree, I think people are writing him off too early.

I'm all for trading MDZ for the 7th in Monahan, Lindholm or Nichushkin are there.

Agreed

 

[GAGLine]

I'm not questioning your opinion, but how do you explain his lack of production in the AHL?

He has to play defense there too. He has to know where to go and what to do without the puck. AHL or NHL, it can still be a big adjustment, particularly for a player who never really learned the team game prior to going to college.

He ended up with 23 points in 48 games, which I think is respectable for a first year pro, especially considering how many times he went back and forth between the AHL and NHL. And a lot of those points came at the end of the season.

I think he's adjusting to the higher level. It takes time.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Chris Nichols ‏@Nichols_NHLPool 7m
Teemu Hartikainen (RFA) headed to the KHL to play for Ufa. #Oilers Via @CraigCustance

Well that sucks for Edmonton. Maybe they'll be less keen on moving MPS.

 

[Fitzy]

And that's fine, I am not saying I totally disagree, but wouldn't that nullify the point of moving MDZ? They would move him because of too many LD's and not enough playing time, so they acquire another RW where they already have Callahan and Nash who will play 20+ minutes a night?

Not for me. I'm into trading a dman because we have too many good blueliners, and not enough good forwards. Not necessarily because of the side he is more comfortable playing on. MDZ has been used frequently on the right.

 

[Kwayry]

If anyone's interested, I wrote an article about the upcoming offseason, mainly focusing on our RFAs.

And, yes, I'm a partner, my modness just hides that

Appreciate any feedback.

Good read, but I don't agree that Zuke needs another "show me" contract. He showed enough to deserve a contract if he is in the plans.

 

[Trxjw]

Chris Nichols ‏@Nichols_NHLPool 7m
Teemu Hartikainen (RFA) headed to the KHL to play for Ufa. #Oilers Via @CraigCustance

Well that sucks for Edmonton. Maybe they'll be less keen on moving MPS.

Could just be a negotiating tactic. Komarov did the same thing with the Leafs.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Good read, but I don't agree that Zuke needs another "show me" contract. He showed enough to deserve a contract if he is in the plans.

I wouldn't mind him getting a 2-3 year contract, but I'm expecting him to get a one year deal. Either way, he needs to be retained.