Speculation: 2013 Off-Season Speculation/Be a GM Thread II

[NYR Viper]

With Torts out, changes are coming IMO.

 

[Kakko]

With Torts out, changes are coming IMO.

Not necessarily. Players wanted Torts gone. Sather listened to the players. Seems like he wants to keep this group of guys, and give them a shot under a coach that fits them

 

[NYR Viper]

Not necessarily. Players wanted Torts gone. Sather listened to the players. Seems like he wants to keep this group of guys, and give them a shot under a coach that fits them

Any new coach will want to put his stamp on a team. The Rangers have some good pieces. Nash, Callahan, Brassard, Stepan, Hagelin. Everyone else is interchangeable.

I would like for them to keep Dorsett. He at least brings some passion and aggressiveness.

I expect the next coach to be a good developmental guy as they may stress the youth a bit.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Murphy:



http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/90889/murphy-and-rask-remain-top-prospects-for-carolina-hurricanes/

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=121922



Rask:



http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articl...remain-top-prospects-for-carolina-hurricanes/

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=128528


I know many may want a NHL body coming back, but I would be happy with those (2).

I've been mentioning Ryan Murphy. I like the player, a lot. He, IMO, is the kind of defenseman we really need to add to the core.

Would Carolina take Del Zotto? We should not move Staal unless his eye sight is going to be an issue.

 

[iamitter]

Any new coach will want to put his stamp on a team. The Rangers have some good pieces. Nash, Callahan, Brassard, Stepan, Hagelin. Everyone else is interchangeable.

I would like for them to keep Dorsett. He at least brings some passion and aggressiveness.

I expect the next coach to be a good developmental guy as they may stress the youth a bit.

I hope its some OHL/AHL coach thats had a lot of experience with those kinds of guys and knows how to win.

I wish we could steal MacLean from the Sens

 

[bernmeister]

bern, smfh.. I read all that then look at that team and pretty much puke.. Hank would walk out the door and not look back after next year

I disagree, and I will explain why my prop does everything possible to keep Hank.

Hank likes NY but is totally disgusted with this team, based on he wants to win, and the club's results speak for themselves.

So I have:
made the team younger, faster stronger overall
gave it bottom 6 better than now
weakened the D but gave more depth.

All of this, coupled with the fact that idiot Torts will be buh-bye means we will have more of a real system, one which does not exhaust the players come playoffs despite them being in good shape to begin with. Most importantly, many more goals, more time of possession, esp. in opposition side of rink.

What's not for Hank to like?


I got rid of most of the vets with contracts that constricted movement because of cap. So now if someone we really want (Malkin?) is available, we have cap and resources.

What's not for Hank to like?


As to compensation, it's only a 5mil base, but, subject to whatever max the CBA allows, he gets balance of what is available that year, which changes from year to year.
If next year there is only 500,000 over the cap, Lundqvist would only make 5.5 mil.
If following year, Rangers were 3.7m under the cap, that is how much would be added as end of year bonus for a total of 8.7m that season.

What's not for Hank to like? Esp. since if $$ is used instead of in his pocket, it is to advance him to the Cup?


And last but not least, the ultimate expression of trust. We say to Hank, we want to make an extended deal, but we trust YOU and we give YOU the control by making it a first year deal with sequential one year options to renew. The only thing we give ourselves is a cushion that if he leaves, he's gotta give us 1 year heads up.

What's not for Hank to like?
What more could he ask for?
And no one please stupidly say a multi year deal at max $.
IMO, he wants the combo of top dollar, comfort (likes NY we're ok there) and best chance at a cup. We can certainly increase our odds on that with my scenario.

Or do you think he's talking the way he is because he wants more of the same?

 

[bernmeister]

I would not get rid of Mcdonagh.

That is a fair concern.

I would not either, except there is no other way to draft McKinnon AND convert MDZ into Duncan Siemens.

Now, if you don't think McK is all that and a bag of chips, fine. And remember, we have to cough up for him and Staal pretty soon, and I don't begrudge they deserve what they get, but remember paying them while cap is diminishing leaves less $ for remaining/new options.

McK could be less than Yakupov, a fine sniper.
He could be ballpark more/less than Tavares
Or, he could be a pre-elite pushing into Stamkos territory.

We don't know, it is a gamble, but the odds are he'll be a good player.
So, IMO, it is worth the gamble, including as to replacing the need to pay McD with an ELC contract.

 

[bernmeister]

You went through all that time typing that novel....and it's all wrong.

I disagree.
I give you a full 2 days, one of my most ardent detractors, to see if you can articulate your case. I'll respond on Fri or Sat.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Keepers, IMO. Although, there are no sacred cows, outside of Lundqvist and McDonagh.

F:
Stepan
Kreider
Hagelin
Callahan
Brassard
Miller
Zuccarello
Nash (because we are stuck with him)

D:
McDonagh
Staal
Moore
Girardi
Stralman (because he won't fetch anything, and he's cheap and effective)

G:
Lundqvist

 

[bernmeister]

I dont think Kreider is smart or defensive enough for a Center role. He can barely handle his assignments on the wing

But I did enjoy the proposal Bern

Underline: thank you.

Bold: I think he can. There is a learning curve, and I'm not saying ultimately everyone is better off with him there and not in the pivot. But for starters, since he's young and strong, give him a few double shifts as I indicated, only with really speedy wingers. After the fact, let him learn via the video replay and custom instruction.

His biggest problem, IMO, is not lack of ability, cause he has used raw athleticism to prevail previously and now he has to master certain nuances at NHL level. But this will come with experience.

It will come faster with Torts buh bye and him receiving encouragement and awareness that promotes recognizing his assignments and accelerates his learning, and not someone trying to drill something into his brain, making him think about it multiples before doing it.

 

[bernmeister]

Bernmeister saying other peoples proposals are crazy when he turns over 70% of the current Rangers roster for prospects. Would NHL13 even accept that kinda thing?

Your close-mindedness is EXACTLY what is wrong.
You are not judging on merit.
It's 70% roster change, it HAS TO be wrong is what you are saying...

Did it ever occur to you that so much of the roster deserves, needs, and requires such an overhaul?

Did it occur to you that the prospects are high end/high grade types?


Yes, I admit it's a risk, but what you do not admit is:

1 It's a prudent risk for the specific players returned
2 Staying still status quo with little tinkering is bigger risk. -- This is the thinking that has Hank inclined to go.

 

[bernmeister]

This is like the Inception of trade proposals. Not only is it ****ing horrible, you have trades within trades.

Players are not stocks, you can't just sell and buy whatever you feel like.

Disagree as to horrible, feel free to elaborate and justify, and not be ad hominum contrarian.

Underline:
Mostly wrong.
Players ARE assets. NMC, NTC and cap restrictions aside, clubs can make all kinds of deals.

 

[bernmeister]

Forget about this Staal to Anaheim stuff. Everyone in hockey knows about the Staals. Is this another trade that works on NHL13?

If Mark wants to go to Carolina, I suspect Sather would do exactly what Shero did last year -- accomodate him. I also assume Rutherford would do the same thing he did last year -- pay a fair price. For me that's Falk and the 6th.

Don't expect that will happen.

I would accept Faulk and I believe it is the 5th.
Don't believe Canes do, though.

 

[Ola]

Yep, I agree. Rangers chase star power while other teams grow their own stars. Boston is a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts. They roll four competitive lines. Chicago can roll four competitive lines. All great teams have the depth that the Rangers continue to sacrifice in order to put big names on the backs of the jerseys.

UFA's come here and have nothing to play for. Kids want to prove themselves. That's the difference.

I don't agree.

We have Hank, Staal, Callahan, McD, Stepan, MDZ and co. Hank is probably around top 3 in terms of value in the entire league, ahead of Towes and Kane and Chara. Who else wins like concecutive G6 and G7 by himself in this league? He won us the President Trophy by himself almost last season.

Looking at our depthchart, we had a ton of assets from top to bottom.

The better teams in this league build teams -- teams -- that can win in the NHL 2013. They pay their due diligence and make sure they put something on the ice that works. Its not our biggest problem, but three times in the last 4 seasons we have like a month into the season found out that we didn't have a 4th line. That hurt you and its not hard to put a 4th line on the ice that works in this league...

It is not one or two or three individual players' fault. I don't know, maybe SJ can question if they got the right characters on the team. They come close year after year after year, but never get close.

We are not close. Its not the physicality on Pyatt, Nash ability to step up when it matters, or Asham's foot speed, Stepan's foot speed, or something like that that keeps us down, we are not even close. We played like what, 5 good games during the regular season. Nash was tremendous in many of our regular season games. For those who blame Nash, what held us back then? Did we play better hockey than the Islanders this season? Even with Hank, where we better than them? Who do they got that is so much better than our guys? Frans Nielsen?

We just gotta learn that the other teams in this league never will roll over and die and let us win. To win, we need to have done a better job than the teams we play against. In all aspects of the game. We can't just live on getting into shooting lanes.

There is one coach in this league litterary questions for his system. The Hockey News, radio channels in Toronto, a bunch of other outlets, really questions Torts system. The last time I remember a coach being questioned for his system is Jaques Lemiere, that's what, 4 or 5 years ago. Its extremely rare. In NY, Torts get a complete pass while he is the joke of the leauge else where. That is undoubtedly part of the problem. We will hang out individual player -- like no other place, we there are alost no limits on how poorly you can coach a team in this city. No scrutiny.

 

[bernmeister]

I like the effort, but this isn't NHL13 where you trade for a bunch of high potential guys, sim three years, then have a stacked team.

Thanks for comment on the effort.

I don't think most of these guys need a full 3 years.
I agree it won't be stacked on day 1, but there will be competition, opportunity, and talent.

That's not automatic, but there are too many good blue chips in that lineup for failure to be likely.

And as you note, it gets better after simmering is complete. STACKED team.

 

[bernmeister]

These posts are why I voted you as funniest poster in the boardies. You crack me up bern. Trade everyone!

Have a laugh on me

But seriously, everyone in my prop needs to be traded, either because we need the upgrade to improve, or because in cases like Stepan and McD, because they were required sacrifice to make the deal.

Just admit the 70% of the roster I turned over sucks [on average] compared to the guys I got.

He who laughs last....

 

[bernmeister]

Chicago rebuilt their depth with young players. Saad, Shaw. Kruger. Leddy(acquired in trade w/Johnsson for Barker). They acquired Stallberg in the Versteeg trade. Skille for Frolik. Kruger and Frolik have formed the best PK pair in the NHL. Frolik was an offensive player in FLA. He is a role player with the Hawks. Bickell was a pick from 2004. Took him a while to figure it out. No free agents signed to 3 year contracts. No Mike Rupps. No Pyatts and Ashams. 2 year deals for them.

Thank you RB!

This is what my prop would effectively be doing, a parallel of this.
{Not exactly player per player, just saying, lots of younger good looking prospects.}

 

[bernmeister]

to EDM................................ ......to NYR
Michael Del Zotto (D)................Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson (LW)
2013 3rd round pick.................Jeff Petry (D)
..................................................2013 2nd round pick (#37)

C:
Stepan
Brassard
Richards(?)
Boyle

LW:
Kreider
Paajarvi
Hagelin
Pyatt
Haley

RW:
Nash
Callahan
Zuccarello
Dorsett
Asham

D:
McDonagh
Girardi
Staal
Stralman
Moore
Petry
Eminger

G:
Lundqvist
Biron


Assuming we buyout Richards, we will need another center. We may have to go into free agency. If Weiss takes a short-term deal at a good annual price, maybe him. Would 3 years 15 million get it done? Would you take Weiss at a 5 million cap hit for 3 years? 20 goal, 50+ point player.


Here's the report on Petry:
"Petry is a smart two-way defenseman who is an excellent skater with good mobility, which he uses to shut down opponents. He plays with an edge and can lay out some good hits. He also doesn’t mind battling in front of the net. Offensively, Petry has a cannon for a point shot, but often uses a wrist shot so that it does not get blocked and does not allow the goaltender to set up. Likes to use his skating and stick skills to make accurate passes out of the zone or to skate the puck up himself, which he has the speed and stickhandling to do. He steadily improved as the seasons wore on and brings a strong mix of size, skill and awareness."

A nice effort to dig deep, but MPS is a big risk.
The price seems too high.

 

[Zuuuuc]

I know this won't happen, but the team I want to see next season would be

Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Zucc - Brassard - Kreider
Clowe - Richards - Callahan
Pyatt - Boyle - Miller/Dorsett/Asham/Powe

McD - G
Staal - Stralman
Moore - MDZ/RHD traded for MDZ

So basically, little to no movement. If Sather can trade MDZ for a similar RHD, I'd do it.

Let's see what this team can do with a coach that plays more offensive rather than collapse collapse collapse.

The only downfall to this lineup would be that there really isn't room for any kids on the top 9.

 

[Ola]

No undersized blueliners for me. Del Zotto is too small for my liking as it is. What is a guy like Murphy going to do hemmed in his own zone with a brutish forward putting a screen on Hank?

That 5'8 kid for Boston doesn't seem to hurt them...

5'10 Boyle worked for Torts in Tampa. Detroit could win with Rafalski. And so forth. Plenty of small D's who thrive in the PO's too.

 

[bernmeister]

Chicago drafted Kane and Toews. They signed Hossa to the free agent contract in 2009. Dale Tallon stole Sharp from Philly. Bolland was a draft pick. The Hawks don't have a true 2nd line center. Sharp and Kane have played there but they're wingers. Down the middle its Toews,Bolland,Shaw and Kruger. Handzus is also a center. Quenneville coached him in STL too. They had to gut the team after winning the Cup because of the cap. They used trades and player development to rebuild their depth. There is no reason why the Rangers can't do the same thing and stay away from free agency. Even if you look at Boston. Paille,Horton and Campbell came in trades. Horton and Campbell came in the same trade. Kelly and Peverley came in trades. Bergeron,Krejci,Marchand, Lucic and Seguin came from the draft. Seguin came from the Kessel trade. The other 4 players weren't first rounders. All of them are top players. Boston doesn't have the true #1 center. They won in 2011. There are many ways to build a team. Stepan and Brassard are good players. The Rangers have Miller,Lindberg and eventually Nieves to add at center. Build the team. They have Nash and Callahan. Hagelin. Kreider. Trade DZ for a forward. Give some of kids an opportunity. I would trade Boyle for a young bottom six player. Boyle had a good playoff. Move him. Stay away from the free agents.

I agree, and point out that by moving so many vets for so many prospects, my post with so many proposals is the closest approximation we could hope for to retroactively building our team (as if it were de facto equivalent of) by the draft!

 

[Parker]

Looking like it'll be another offseason with a lot of turnover, even more so than last year?

I do think a change of pace was needed so I can understand getting rid of Torts, though I am concerned about who is out there that might be a potential upgrade.

The bigger question for me is what kind of success can be expected with big roster/system/coaching changes happening this often? It felt like the Rangers made a lot of moves this past year only to end up right back where they started, or slightly worse than where they started (Gaborik turns into Nash, Anisimov turns into Brassard, Erixon into Moore, Rangers give up draft picks, etc.)

Watching the series against Boston I was impressed at how much continuity they seem to have and how much of their roster has stayed intact since they won the cup a few years ago. I think there's something to be said for just giving players a chance to play together and learn each other's tendencies..

 

[bernmeister]

The resulting team sucks for the foreseeable future. It may become good when Hank starts to decline. A complete waste of time.

Thank you for your opinion.
Not surprisingly, I disagree.

Feel free to elaborate on why a team with so many higher picks added to our best third or so of the team would automatically suck, and continue to do so "for the foreseeable future".

 

[0ddManRush]

Keepers, IMO. Although, there are no sacred cows, outside of Lundqvist and McDonagh.

F:
Stepan
Kreider
Hagelin
Callahan
Brassard
Miller
Zuccarello
Nash (because we are stuck with him)

D:
McDonagh
Staal
Moore
Girardi
Stralman (because he won't fetch anything, and he's cheap and effective)

G:
Lundqvist

So, basically everybody.

 

[MrEctions]

Agree with the camp that changes are coming. With a new coach and new system its inevitable that players will be moved out.Exciting times in NY now. I think its an absolute foregone conclusion that Richards is bought out and I have a feeling were going to see some pretty well liked guys moved out now.