Speculation: 2013-2014 Roster Discussion III

[Ollie Weeks]

I will be interested in seeing what comes of Martinez and contract discussions He's a UFA after next year. Will he look for a payday with whomever or will he want to stick around? Sutter wasn't showing him much faith before, but this has changed the last little while.

 

[HYORI 1963]

Personally in a couple years I envision a defense that looks like this:

Gravel/Doughty
McNabb/Voynov
Martinez/Forbort

A young, steady, defense with good speed and puck handling abilities. Doughty, Voynov and Martinez as the experienced 'veterans' so to speak

While fun and interesting, it will never happen. You are going to have a couple of proven vets in the equation.

And no way Martinez remains on the kings as a bottom pairing.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Some people seem to think that Lombardi manages his team as if he's playing in a fantasy hockey league.

 

[Scottkmlps]

Did you even read my posts?

Yes I did, but Dean isn't going to deal Voynov to bring in a big name partner for Doughty. There's really no need to bring in a big name partner for Doughty. The Kings are the best defensive team in the league with what they have already.
Would you have even suggested moving Voynov last season when his play was strong?

 

[HYORI 1963]

Some people seem to think that Lombardi manages his team as if he's playing in a fantasy hockey league.

A good gm is always looking a couple of years ahead. And while he MAY only end up making minimal moves, he's constantly thinking about improving his team.

 

[HYORI 1963]

Yes I did, but Dean isn't going to deal Voynov to bring in a big name partner for Doughty. There's really no need to bring in a big name partner for Doughty. The Kings are the best defensive team in the league with what they have already.
Would you have even suggested moving Voynov last season when his play was strong?

My proposal has nothing to do with VV's so-called off year. I'm a firm believer in buying low and selling high. Having said that I would consider moving VV, because Martinez can take his spot for a smaller cap hit.

Believe it or not, I'm perfectly fine with Muzzin as DD's linemate as long as he doesn't suck.

 

[Scottkmlps]

While fun and interesting, it will never happen. You are going to have a couple of proven vets in the equation.

And no way Martinez remains on the kings as a bottom pairing.

Why not? Did he ask for a trade when he was in the press box night after night? Has he stated he is unhappy with ice time? He's on a contending team that has the pieces to contend for years. He's getting regular shifts and power play time.
In a couple years Doughty will be going into his 8th season, Martinez his 6th and Voynov his 5th, all players, at this time, winning a Cup and making it to 2 Conference finals. They'll be proven vets by that time.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think a mart is finally proving sutter wrong and he may change his mind and give hima shot 4at top 4 d man spot. I think there alot of king fans that think he deserves at least a change to play there again. I think he played well last year before he got hurt.

I love Martinez but if he doesn't play top 4 here he's gone. He's going to take the opportunity to play top 4 elsewhere and take the money that comes with it. I love Martinez, I would keep him--but if Sutter (and theoretically DL) see him as a bottom pairing d-man, then I imagine they trade him before next season's deadline. Someone will give him 3-4 million no questions asked, possibly more if the Martinez we see at this moment is the one you see going forward.

He's a UFA after next season coming up on his possibly only big payday. That's a sucky thought for me

Edit: I shoudl also say I think a Martinez-Voynov pairing would likely not work defensively even if it could be dynamic offensively so one of them would have to go. Voynov would obviously be the superior trade bait, but eh. I mentioned in another post that I think he gets a chance to get his head straight just like others have.

 

[HYORI 1963]

Why not? Did he ask for a trade when he was in the press box night after night? Has he stated he is unhappy with ice time? He's on a contending team that has the pieces to contend for years. He's getting regular shifts and power play time.
In a couple years Doughty will be going into his 8th season, Martinez his 6th and Voynov his 5th, all players, at this time, winning a Cup and making it to 2 Conference finals. They'll be proven vets by that time.

Why would Martinez want to be relegated to 3rd pairing, when he can be a top 4 here or elsewhere? Yeah, winning the cup is great, but eventually, it's also about being respected and getting paid too. Besides, he's been a HS half the season under Sutter, so, I could definitely see Martinez looking elsewhere. Wouldn't you?

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I love Martinez but if he doesn't play top 4 here he's gone. He's going to take the opportunity to play top 4 elsewhere and take the money that comes with it. I love Martinez, I would keep him--but if Sutter (and theoretically DL) see him as a bottom pairing d-man, then I imagine they trade him before next season's deadline. Someone will give him 3-4 million no questions asked, possibly more if the Martinez we see at this moment is the one you see going forward.

He's a UFA after next season coming up on his possibly only big payday. That's a sucky thought for me

Edit: I shoudl also say I think a Martinez-Voynov pairing would likely not work defensively even if it could be dynamic offensively so one of them would have to go. Voynov would obviously be the superior trade bait, but eh. I mentioned in another post that I think he gets a chance to get his head straight just like others have.

I honestly think a mart is being under rated here alot . He did play our whole playoff run without getting scored on and it was him making more defensive plays then greene imo. I think because he was in and out so much hes finally getting a chance to show just how good he is. I dont have the numbers but to me i m thinking hes better then being given credit for. I know there would be a ajustment point but amart and slava pairing would work in the long run imo A mart has shown alot of defensive responsibility to me when played /

 

[Reclamation Project]

Yes, I agree. That's why I said within the next few years.

 

[Scottkmlps]

Why would Martinez want to be relegated to 3rd pairing, when he can be a top 4 here or elsewhere? Yeah, winning the cup is great, but eventually, it's also about being respected and getting paid too. Besides, he's been a HS half the season under Sutter, so, I could definitely see Martinez looking elsewhere. Wouldn't you?

I definitely see where you're coming from but there have just been no reports of Martinez being unhappy. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but I get the sense Martinez is a team first type of player. But I do see your point. Anyways, we're just splitting hairs, cause we have no idea what Lombardi has planned.

 

[HYORI 1963]

No I definitely see where you're coming from but there have just been no reports of Martinez being unhappy. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but I get the sense Martinez is a team first type of player. But I do see your point. Anyways, we're just splitting hairs, cause we have no idea what Lombardi has planned.

I don't think he's unhappy at all, but there comes a time when you cut the cord and move on to greener pasture.

I just don't think there's THAT much of a difference in overall skill between Voynov and Martinez, and that's why I think Lombardi will move the more expensive Voynov. But like you said, we'll wait and see.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't think he's unhappy at all, but there comes a time when you cut the cord and move on to greener pasture.

I just don't think there's THAT much of a difference in overall skill between Voynov and Martinez, and that's why I think Lombardi will move the more expensive Voynov. But like you said, we'll wait and see.

I would think so--but I don't think a UFA Martinez playing at this level gets paid much (if at all) less than Voynov does.

 

[HYORI 1963]

I would think so--but I don't think a UFA Martinez playing at this level gets paid much (if at all) less than Voynov does.

I don't think Martinez is going to get a big raise, if he's signed to an extension early next year. You have to remember that he's only played half a season this year, and while I loved his play, I don't think half a season warrants the Voynov type of pay. I'm thinking if Lombardi trades VV and Martinez gets the opportunity to play on the top 4, I think he'll be happy to take a discount just for the opportunity.

 

[redcard]

Personally in a couple years I envision a defense that looks like this:

Gravel/Doughty
McNabb/Voynov
Martinez/Forbort

A young, steady, defense with good speed and puck handling abilities. Doughty, Voynov and Martinez as the experienced 'veterans' so to speak

I'd bet only one of Gravel, McNabb, and Forbort are still with the Kings in a couple seasons and one of the other 3 gone. For the same reason that if you asked me in 2009 what I thought our defense would look like in a couple seasons I'd give you something like:

Doughty-Johnson
Hickey-Greene
Quincey-Teubert
Voynov/Drewiske

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't think Martinez is going to get a big raise, if he's signed to an extension early next year. You have to remember that he's only played half a season this year, and while I loved his play, I don't think half a season warrants the Voynov type of pay. I'm thinking if Lombardi trades VV and Martinez gets the opportunity to play on the top 4, I think he'll be happy to take a discount just for the opportunity.

I think with Martinez you're not paying for potential the way we were with Voynov--it's a what you see is what you get, and if I'm a rival GM chasing a UFA defenseman, and I can get a quality all-around top-4 d-man for 3-4 million without giving up my own players/picks/prospects? Done.

I think Andrew MacDonald will set the market for Martinez this summer. But I agree with you in that we don't know behind the scenes here--maybe Marty is happy and takes a team-friendly discount of 3.5 million to stay, shrug.

 

[Fishhead]

I think the focus needs to be on finding a SAH/Hybrid guy. I love Willie and Greene, but those days are passing. Personally I'd like to see a younger, solid guy brought in, Niskanen would be at the top of my list. We also have guys we could dangle for another teams RFA. The 2015 crop of UFA defensmen is a bit better, so a single year signing of an older vet is an option.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think the focus needs to be on finding a SAH/Hybrid guy. I love Willie and Greene, but those days are passing. Personally I'd like to see a younger, solid guy brought in, Niskanen would be at the top of my list. We also have guys we could dangle for another teams RFA. The 2015 crop of UFA defensmen is a bit better, so a single year signing of an older vet is an option.

Niskanen is a right handed dman though, and he'll be looking at a top 4 role with the pay increase he'll be due.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Greene is done and Mitchell is just about there.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think the focus needs to be on finding a SAH/Hybrid guy. I love Willie and Greene, but those days are passing. Personally I'd like to see a younger, solid guy brought in, Niskanen would be at the top of my list. We also have guys we could dangle for another teams RFA. The 2015 crop of UFA defensmen is a bit better, so a single year signing of an older vet is an option.

*cough* Alec Martinez

Gonna mess around with a few CapGeek lineups when I get home.

 

[Whiskeypete]

With the inevitable departure of Willie and Matt, Dean will look for stability in the D corp. I will be surprised if either of them are back next season. If either of them are it will be as a 7th D, on a 1 contract. It's part of the game, but I think we are seeing them for the last 20-30 games of their careers in a Kings jersey.

RR will follow after them the following season and possibly be re-signed again, for 1 or 2 seasons.

They will be brought in as depth, stability and because LA knows what they are getting with them. While they may not be the players they were, Dean at least knows what he's getting.

This leaves DD, VV, and AMart as the long term vets. Muzz as a vet, but with lesser experience.

I can not see Dean stripping apart his D corp to move in multiple rookie D, no matter how promising they are. Darryl most certainly won't play multiple rookie D. They both will rely on a corp of at least 3 existing players.

Dean tends to move cautiously. Darryl moves at glacial pace.

I can't see Dean bringing in McNabb next season, followed by both Gravel and Forbort the following year. I expect him to step each one in separately the same way that Muzzin has been.

Next season D
Muzz - DD
RR - VV
McNabb - Amart
7th - a vet UFA on a bridge (Willie or Matt?) for 1-year

The following season
Muzz - DD
McNabb - VV
Gravel/Forbort - AMart
7th - RR on a bridge for 1-year?

in two years at some point they will begin to work in the other one of the two - Gravel/Forbort. the vet bridge player will get waived.

i know others see Gravel ahead of Forbort, but it won't surprise me to see Derek move up first. based on Dean's safe and cautious planning i can see him keeping Gravel in MAN a bit longer the same as he has with other players.

to me this is the natural course and structure they would turn to in order to retain the existing players and begin to move the new guys onto the big club.

in time the D corp should be something like the following:
Muzz - DD
McNabb - VV
Gravel - Amart
Forbort

the slotting may not be entirely accurate but that is damn good looking corp of talent. a good mix of SAH and PMD. an extremely big corp even compared to current and past teams.

i will hate to see either Voynov or Amart traded. to me it will be the repeat and fail of Zhitnik and Sydor all over again. i have said this for over two years now when this topic surfaces and i will stick by it.

 

[lumbergh]

I'd like to see Alec Martinez get a chance along side Doughty next season. I mean the Kings would spend no time in their own zone with those two on the back end.

Also, what's the future for Bodnarchuk? Lots of talk about Gravel, McNabb, and Forbort, but nothing about Bodnarchuk.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Greene will leave over Summer and hopefully so will Mitchell.

 

[Telos]

I could see Greene walking and Mitchell signing on cheaply as a bottom pairing guy. Though, Dean would likely prefer the opposite and keep Greene and let Mitchell walk, but I don't see Greene staying after being benched so much and his salary is hard to justify. Doubt we come to terms on a contract.