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Speculation: 2013-2014 Roster Discussion III

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I would hope Martinez is not outgoing for many reasons but realistically he is a UFA next year and will command some good money that we may not be able to afford...especially if we're keeping Voynov. Realistically, only one of them is on the second pairing, and we wont' be able to cap-wise keep a 3-4 million dollar defenseman on the bottom pairing any more than we can leave a 6 million dollar center on the fourth line.
 
Brad Doty said:
I would hope Martinez is not outgoing for many reasons but realistically he is a UFA next year and will command some good money that we may not be able to afford...especially if we're keeping Voynov. Realistically, only one of them is on the second pairing, and we wont' be able to cap-wise keep a 3-4 million dollar defenseman on the bottom pairing any more than we can leave a 6 million dollar center on the fourth line.
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Time for either Voynov or Martinez to play the Doughty role as mentor of the partnership and play VV and AM together on the second pairing! Honestly, less puck carrying for Voynov might be a good thing. Martinez is better at it than he is and Voynov has surprising strength in battles along the boards.
 
Brad Doty said:
I would hope Martinez is not outgoing for many reasons but realistically he is a UFA next year and will command some good money that we may not be able to afford...especially if we're keeping Voynov. Realistically, only one of them is on the second pairing, and we wont' be able to cap-wise keep a 3-4 million dollar defenseman on the bottom pairing any more than we can leave a 6 million dollar center on the fourth line.
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I don't know why, but now, I can possibly see Amart being paired up with VV, whereas, I couldn't before. And if not, VV with Amart, then VV with Muzz, and Amart with DD. It somehow looks better now, then it did about a month ago.

I say the main reason Amart may leave is because he wants to be "the guy", which he will probably never be on the kings. Amart has already hoisted the cup, and now he wants the money and the fame that goes with it, imo. I can't say I'd blame him.
 
Black1963 said:
I don't know why, but now, I can possibly see Amart being paired up with VV, whereas, I couldn't before. And if not, VV with Amart, then VV with Muzz, and Amart with DD. It somehow looks better now, then it did about a month ago.

I say the main reason Amart may leave is because he wants to be "the guy", which he will probably never be on the kings. Amart has already hoisted the cup, and now he wants the money and the fame that goes with it, imo. I can't say I'd blame him.
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I agree with all of this. And I also say yeah, I could see a Martinez-Voynov pairing now certainly much more than I could before. Obviously Doughty is a lot better but it's not like we have a puck-mover and a stay-at-homer on the first pair, having two good all around defensemen is very nice too. And lefty and righty...hmm.
 
Martinez and Voynov together is too risky. Let's not forget, Martinez can make some rash decisions as well when he's pressured and has had his ups and downs. He's best suited with a defensive, stay-at-home partner. Not another mistake prone partner who has a tendency of trapping himself and his teammates in his own zone.

Then what does that leave your third pairing to be? An immobile pair with two guys who can't move the puck?
 
Brad Doty said:
I agree with all of this. And I also say yeah, I could see a Martinez-Voynov pairing now certainly much more than I could before. Obviously Doughty is a lot better but it's not like we have a puck-mover and a stay-at-homer on the first pair, having two good all around defensemen is very nice too. And lefty and righty...hmm.
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Yeah, VV and Amart may be offensive minded dmen, but they're both responsible in their own end as well. And add to that, they're both very good skaters. I don't think an irresponsible dman makes the kings roster as long as DL and DS are in charge.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Martinez and Voynov together is too risky. Let's not forget, Martinez can make some rash decisions as well when he's pressured and has had his ups and downs. He's best suited with a defensive, stay-at-home partner. Not another mistake prone partner who has a tendency of trapping himself and his teammates in his own zone.

Then what does that leave your third pairing to be? An immobile pair with two guys who can't move the puck?
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I think if we're talking about the future, if the second pairing isn't Voynov/Martinez, then one of them is a goner due to money, because there isn't room to pay a third-paring d-man their going rate (unless Martinez is some totally selfless dude and accepts less than 3 million to stay here).

If we're talking about the future, that leaves the third pairing to be some amalgamation of McNabb, Forbort, Gravel, etc.

Mostly just spitballing around the idea of Voynov/Martinez and what the future brings. Definitely not saying it would be ideal to have them on a pairing together, but as they continue to mature, having two solid all-around d-men is a nice luxury and I could think of worse things. At the very least, it will stop the predictable dump-ins to Regehr's corner (used to be the Hemsky tunnel of terror) :P
 
I think there's a good chance Martinez gets traded.

-Don't see Sutter running Martinez/Voynov as a second pairing out side of a calamity. Sutter likes his large punishing D-men.

-Sutter continues to bust Martinez's balls. Don't forget Martinez was a healthy scratch through much of the season.

-This is not anti-Sutter... just how it is.

-Muzzin will be also be looking at a raise (RFA at the same time)

-Only way Martinez stays is if DD/VV/AM are down the right side. Would be nice, but Martinez in UFA will get 3+... I just can't see DL spending 3M on a guy Sutter will bench given the opportunity.

-Now looking at the cap. Trading AMart would create a hole. Filling that hole with anyone making over 1M would cause a cap crunch (with the resigning of Gaborik) that may lead to a forward being moved to clear cap space.

Edit: could see a package of Clifford/AMart/Vet Forward to clear cap space.

Not even going to comment on Vet Forwards I think could be moved. Don't want to deal with the fallout from that.
 
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Johnny Utah said:
The Kings core at D is Doughty and Voynov. Martinez and Muzzin are the next tier. McNabb will take over for Greene or Mitchell. Regehr has 1 more year.

The battle next year is for the #7 spot.

Doughty-Muzzin
Voynov-Regehr
Martinez-McNabb

#7.....????
Click to expand...

Bods!
 
Black1963 said:
Yeah, VV and Amart may be offensive minded dmen, but they're both responsible in their own end as well. And add to that, they're both very good skaters. I don't think an irresponsible dman makes the kings roster as long as DL and DS are in charge.
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The difference between them in the D Zone is vastly different. Voynov may skate and stay with his man, but the opponent almost always still is able to make a play or outmuscle (but not out maneuver) him. Martinez stays with his man and neutralizes him
more effectively.

I would much rather extend AMart and give him a raise from 1.1 to 2.75 - 3.0 and trade the 4.167 caphit Voynov. Amart is still signed through next season.
 
If Martinez plays next season anywhere close to the level he played calendar year 2014 then you can forget about anything around $3 million. He is an UFA he will get paid.

The Kings have only Drew and Slava signed beyond next year.
 
Herby said:
If Martinez plays next season anywhere close to the level he played calendar year 2014 then you can forget about anything around $3 million. He is an UFA he will get paid.

The Kings have only Drew and Slava signed beyond next year.
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That's not good. I think they should extend both Martinez and Muzzin this off season.

Should also sign Ebert and Gravel.
 
The 3+M was meant as a low end guess.... kind of a minimum you know if something like AMart took a puck to the face and had a plate installed or something and his game dropped next season...

Looking back at the game the other night.... from the box score on Kings.nhl.com

Player TOI
AMart 13:19
WM 16:49 (first game back from injury)
JS 17:10
VV 22:05
JM 22:10
DD 26:20

Yeah.... 3/4/5M is too much to pay for 13 minuets of ice time. AMart will go somewhere where he'll get paid and have a larger role.

Almost 4min less then JS...
 
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If I had to choose between AMart and Voynov I would choose AMart. But I'm extremely biased. But I'm also realistic and he'll be the one that gets moved as it seems Sutter still just flat out doesn't like him...and I don't mean that as a criticism, it just is what it is. I'm willing to wager he gets moved as soon as this offseason if the right deal comes along. If Philly was smart, they would have given MacDonald's money to AMart.
 
Brad Doty said:
If I had to choose between AMart and Voynov I would choose AMart. But I'm extremely biased. But I'm also realistic and he'll be the one that gets moved as it seems Sutter still just flat out doesn't like him...and I don't mean that as a criticism, it just is what it is. I'm willing to wager he gets moved as soon as this offseason if the right deal comes along. If Philly was smart, they would have given MacDonald's money to AMart.
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1297473_o.gif
 
the VV-AMart pairing would resemble what CHI has in the pairing of Oduya & Jammer on their second pairing. it shows you don't need a classic SAH guy on each pairing.

i think the CHI 2nd pairing is dynamic and is one reason that teams have a difficult time with CHI. both of those guys can move and skate with the puck. they transition the puck so well up ice, while also playing sound defense.

you can easily compare/contrast Jammer to Voynov and AMart to Oduya on how each of them play the game and also in their skillsets.

AMart is going to cost a serious amount of AAV, he's earned it and he continues to improve. fitting him in under the cap is the issue and i haven't begun to play with capgeek to figure it out. with WM, MG coming off the books and then RR in a year there could be room. especially as the replacement Dmen will likely be guys on ELC's (Gravel, Forbort, McNabb).

i still feel it will be a big mistake to let Alec or Slava get away. it would remind me of some guys named Alexei and Darryl that LA get away a long time ago
 
As much I'll hate it, you probably have to let Martinez go. He deserves top 4 money and Sutter never seems to want to trust him in a larger role. If Greene wasn't God awful this year Martinez would probably have been a healthy scratch all year.
 
For whatever reason, Voynov has been a bit off this year, but that is no reason to conclude he's no longer a core member of the team. Same thing with Richards. The Kings aren't on their way to a second Stanley Cup in three years without both of them.
 
Martinez has not shown he can consistently be a top 4 D-man. I don't think this is Sutter's fault. He was our #5 guy during the Cup run and has pretty much played that role for the past couple years.

I don't see how he gets big money for being a 5-6 guy. Our top 4 right now and going into next year is Doughty, Muzzin, Voynov, and Regehr. Martinez is the #5, Mitchell rotates around and is going to be a UFA, and Greene is a #6/#7 guy who is going to be a UFA.
 
Johnny Utah said:
The Kings core at D is Doughty and Voynov. Martinez and Muzzin are the next tier. McNabb will take over for Greene or Mitchell. Regehr has 1 more year.

The battle next year is for the #7 spot.

Doughty-Muzzin
Voynov-Regehr
Martinez-McNabb

#7.....????
Click to expand...

Yep. This makes a lot of sense. + Bodnarchuk at #7 makes good sense too. That's a pretty good and veteran group. Add McNabb for some fresh blood.
 
Hey kings fans! Canucks fan coming in peace. So what's happened to mike Richards? Why is everyone penciling him on the 4th line? What would it take to get him in the Canucks?
 
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