2008 Born for the 2024 OHL Draft

[hotchips99]

You're in over your head in this discussion and it's fairly clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

Only thing you've proven is that you have an agenda. Quit pushing it.

You are quick to point the finger. I'm asking the question and as a person inquiring, how often have for example watched the Toronto Nationals vs lets say a bottom team. Not a team like VK, NYR Rebels?
It's a question. Sorry if I offended you in any way.

 

[hotchips99]

Kreppner #9 Titans was one of the most impressive players in the first round of the gthl playoffs. High compete, pressure, won his battles, lead by example chasing pucks vs a top team, never lost confidence, just went after it.

This kid here has alot of upside and potential for the next level. He has all the attributes whats listed above. You notice him early in games and he competes all game long with success.

 

[OHL4Life]

You are quick to point the finger. I'm asking the question and as a person inquiring, how often have for example watched the Toronto Nationals vs lets say a bottom team. Not a team like VK, NYR Rebels?
It's a question. Sorry if I offended you in any way.

according to our rinknet our scouting team has seen them play about 40/50 times as a team each. if a kid cant impress in that window, hes not that good. im going to leave this with you, do what you want with it. no scout watches tournament finals sir, they are long gone home, managers and directors head back to watch their own team play.

I'm not sure what you are try to say. It's a example of a kid playing on a top team and getting that extra look.

How ofter have you watched the worst teams in the respective leagues play bottom teams?
That takes commitment.
It's easy to watch a tournament final.

every time you post, your doing you son (we all see who it is) a disfavor. your proving that anyone who drafts your son is in for a father who is over the top and will not allow things to happen naturally for him. some players are so talented that they can overcome that, but some are not. at this point in his life, i dont believe your son is so good that he can, hes rated as a mid round pick and having seen him about 10 or so times, i think thats about right. seeing your posts and rants on here i have to say ill be going to my director and mention to him that your son is almost not worth drafting just due to all the drama you brings.

so let me ask, is posting on here so worth it to you that your willing to put an even bigger target on your son and make teams think twice? if it is, then thats how you value things, but im telling you your not doing your son any favous, its the opposite.

do whatever you want to do, just be aware your son will probably have to bear the burden in a month or two.

 

[dsanchez1973]

There was a discussion earlier about suspensions affecting players's draft stock and many (including myself) indicated it probably wasn't that big. However, one relatively good prospect this week got a gross misconduct - discrimination (I won't name him but you can find it out pretty easily if you want). Curious if the experts feel this particular kind of suspension would have a more serious impact.

 

[OHL4Life]

There was a discussion earlier about suspensions affecting players's draft stock and many (including myself) indicated it probably wasn't that big. However, one relatively good prospect this week got a gross misconduct - discrimination (I won't name him but you can find it out pretty easily if you want). Curious if the experts feel this particular kind of suspension would have a more serious impact.

maybe. Context as always is needed. curious what league

 

[AAAdad]

There was a discussion earlier about suspensions affecting players's draft stock and many (including myself) indicated it probably wasn't that big. However, one relatively good prospect this week got a gross misconduct - discrimination (I won't name him but you can find it out pretty easily if you want). Curious if the experts feel this particular kind of suspension would have a more serious impact.

There is a lot of talk by GM's and scouts about finding good character people in the draft. I wonder how much a prospect's character weighs in versus the skills/abilities he brings.

Perhaps character makes more of a difference below the top 2 rounds? OHL4Life would hopefully be able to say what offences one can look past. As well, a 16 year old can drastically change for the better (or continue to slide downward) as they mature. I hope I'm living proof of that! Maybe that gets determined in the interview and go/no-go decision is based from that.

By the way, one can get a gross misconduct - discrimination these days for calling another player a "princess". Would simply be better to punch a guy in the head. I guess it matters more knowing the full nature of the gross misconduct.

 

[dirty12]

There is a lot of talk by GM's and scouts about finding good character people in the draft. I wonder how much a prospect's character weighs in versus the skills/abilities he brings.

Perhaps character makes more of a difference below the top 2 rounds? OHL4Life would hopefully be able to say what offences one can look past. As well, a 16 year old can drastically change for the better (or continue to slide downward) as they mature. I hope I'm living proof of that! Maybe that gets determined in the interview and go/no-go decision is based from that.

By the way, one can get a gross misconduct - discrimination these days for calling another player a "princess". Would simply be better to punch a guy in the head. I guess it matters more knowing the full nature of the gross misconduct.

Following closely what the eastern conference does, I would say character is very, almost most important to half the teams for the first 2-3 rounds. The later picks can be monitored for 1-2 more years.

 

[OHL4Life]

There is a lot of talk by GM's and scouts about finding good character people in the draft. I wonder how much a prospect's character weighs in versus the skills/abilities he brings.

Perhaps character makes more of a difference below the top 2 rounds? OHL4Life would hopefully be able to say what offences one can look past. As well, a 16 year old can drastically change for the better (or continue to slide downward) as they mature. I hope I'm living proof of that! Maybe that gets determined in the interview and go/no-go decision is based from that.

By the way, one can get a gross misconduct - discrimination these days for calling another player a "princess". Would simply be better to punch a guy in the head. I guess it matters more knowing the full nature of the gross misconduct.

that’s what I mean. depends on the context of the comment

 

[HockeyPops]

Not sure about context, but it's on gamesheet. There were 4 head contact penalties on the same stoppage.

 

[Ozymandias]

Biggest problem with a goalie playing on a bottom-end team is that they really don't attract many scouts' attention. I could be wrong but I think people scouting at the U16 level are hyperfocused on skaters....goalies who play on teams with top DEF and FWDs are the ones that will likely get more noticed for obvious reasons. As well, goalies on bottom-end teams generally don't go far in tournament and regular season playoff games...again, not being seen by scouts all that much. Add in the fact thst most teams rotate goalies fairly equally...so only playing half the games....half the time in front of scouts.

The goalie position is re-active by nature...much unlike a skater who can go out and DO something and make a statement. Some great goalies at this level have crap stats just because of the team in front of them.

What can I say, it's a difficult position for a scout to get a good feel....especially if they don't know the position all that well. What might look good on one team, might be crap on another.....so many variables.

Of course he played up when he was in Sudbury...have you seen what Sudbury has to offer in their goalies at his age group? Many, many of the better goalies in Ontario would have played up too if they lived in Sudbury.

Beites is a good goalie..hands down and I'm not going to take anything away from him as a goalie....but there is a reason why he moved to Barrie. He wanted to be seen on a high profile team...and you get more views simply by playing on a better team. That part is not rocket science and it seems to have been a good move that worked out for him.

All the goalies mentioned are good...but I don't think they're doing anything that

I agree...more views does not make you a great goalie. Vaughan Kings is a perfect example of that. And yes, lots of gems out there on lesser skilled teams. When the draft is over, I will find it quite interesting to see where the kids finished up and how I viewed them over the last year. I certainly don't know or have seen all the goalies and would find it refreshing to see a few drafted that I have never heard of before.

I do find the discussion on scouting very interesting. After all is said and done and the draft is over, I would love to see what was written on each kid or their rating. I know we'll never see that but I think it would be very enlightening to know what scouts think versus what parents/fans think. What do they see?

I had an interesting discussion with an OHL goalie coach after last year's draft. I asked him why they chose who they did and what they thought about the other goalies that went earlier. Basically, his team was more interested in potential than how the individual goalies performed that season. Looking for that gem, I guess. I thought that was an interesting take and I wondered how they assessed potential.

Let's be honest, when you're a goalie on a top end team, you usually have superstars in front protecting you. It's easier to win games, have a low GAA and to get multiple shut outs when you are facing less than 10 shots a game.

Now, when you're a goalie on a bottom end team, obviously you're getting a lot more shots...and I'm no mathematician but more shots, typically equals more goals against. Not only that, If you're a good goalie on a bad team, you can do everything right, play lights out, and still lose because the team in front of you is simply not skilled enough to close the deal.

I would like to believe that if you're truly good you will eventually get noticed but the cynic in me feels that life is a popularity contest and it's easier to pick the 'winner' over the 'loser'.

For the record, I'm not taking anything away from any of the goalies on that list. I just think that there are at least 10 other goalies flying under the radar on crappy teams who if you put them in net on YSE, Vaughan Kings, Barrie, or any other top teams for that matter, they would have very similar results...which begs the question, are these goalies that are expected to be drafted getting drafted because they are the 'best of the best', or are they just lucky enough to have grabbed a golden ticket, which in this case is a strong team that makes them look better than than they actually are?

 

[SarniaStingFan]

I've seen a lot of goalie talk on the board lately. A few teams keep track of shots so you can get save percentage numbers. Here are numbers from some players you have all mentioned and some that I found interesting:

Jason Schaubel (Barrie Jr. Colts) - .934 (14/27 games had shots tracked)
Matthias D'Souza (Ottawa Myers Automotive) - .918 (10/17 games had shots tracked)
Colin Ellsworth (York-Simcoe Express) - .917 (13/20 games had shots tracked)
Kale Osipenko (Ottawa Valley Titans) - .917 (13/22 games had shots tracked), worth noting his tandem partner has an .880 SV%
Mateo Beites (Barrie Jr. Colts) - .913 (8/17 games had shots tracked)
Jack Ferguson (Ottawa Myers Automotive) - .907 (11/21 games had shots tracked)
Riley Barkey (York-Simcoe Express) - .882 (13/23 games had shots tracked)

These are combined stats from the regular season and playoffs of these leagues. No tournament games were included. Unfortunately the Alliance, GTHL, NOHA, and OMHA West either don't track shots or do it very rarely. All the information comes from the GameSheet website. Here is a link to it:

GameSheet Inc | Scores, Schedule, Standings, and Stats for GameSheet Leagues & Tournaments

Find Scores, Schedule, Standings, and Statistics for any league or tournament using GameSheet.

gamesheetinc.com

 

[AAAdad]

I've seen a lot of goalie talk on the board lately. A few teams keep track of shots so you can get save percentage numbers. Here are numbers from some players you have all mentioned and some that I found interesting:

Jason Schaubel (Barrie Jr. Colts) - .934 (14/27 games had shots tracked)
Matthias D'Souza (Ottawa Myers Automotive) - .918 (10/17 games had shots tracked)
Colin Ellsworth (York-Simcoe Express) - .917 (13/20 games had shots tracked)
Kale Osipenko (Ottawa Valley Titans) - .917 (13/22 games had shots tracked), worth noting his tandem partner has an .880 SV%
Mateo Beites (Barrie Jr. Colts) - .913 (8/17 games had shots tracked)
Jack Ferguson (Ottawa Myers Automotive) - .907 (11/21 games had shots tracked)
Riley Barkey (York-Simcoe Express) - .882 (13/23 games had shots tracked)

These are combined stats from the regular season and playoffs of these leagues. No tournament games were included. Unfortunately the Alliance, GTHL, NOHA, and OMHA West either don't track shots or do it very rarely. All the information comes from the GameSheet website. Here is a link to it:

GameSheet Inc | Scores, Schedule, Standings, and Stats for GameSheet Leagues & Tournaments

Find Scores, Schedule, Standings, and Statistics for any league or tournament using GameSheet.

gamesheetinc.com

Taking a look at the link, I'm not sure how you arrived at your numbers. Looking at Schaubel, I see a SV% of .878 for 27 games. Beites has a .786 on that site? Did you do your own calculations to derive SV%? These guys must be better than what's on that site....otherwise, they'd get no love. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong?

I don't think the stats on Gamesheets are overly accurate and worthy of being part of assessing a goalie. I never trust shot counts at this level. Most people counting shots don't even know what a shot on net really means. Hell...even InStat gets them wrong...misses some shots and counts ones that were never on net.

The only accurate stats are GAA and Win/Loss...and those aren't even true goalie stats..they're team based.

 

[OHL4Life]

For the record, I'm not taking anything away from any of the goalies on that list. I just think that there are at least 10 other goalies flying under the radar on crappy teams who if you put them in net on YSE, Vaughan Kings, Barrie, or any other top teams for that matter, they would have very similar results...which begs the question, are these goalies that are expected to be drafted getting drafted because they are the 'best of the best', or are they just lucky enough to have grabbed a golden ticket, which in this case is a strong team that makes them look better than than they actually are?

is yse that good of a team in the grand scheme of things?

are vaughans goalies going in the top few rounds? thats news to me.

parents need to understand, scouts could care less about today, its about 4 years from now.

yes, there are tons of goalies who could play on vaughan and have shiny stats, but that doesnt mean they would be picked any higher. last years top team had one goalie drafted late, because no one is sure that he will grow to anything other then a good aaa goalie.

ohl teams are not looking for good aaa goalies, there are 60 of those that show up every age group. they are looking for good to great ohl goalies 4 years from now. i dont think parents understand that todays results have nothing to do with much, its about projection and tools.

Taking a look at the link, I'm not sure how you arrived at your numbers. Looking at Schaubel, I see a SV% of .878 for 27 games. Beites has a .786 on that site? Did you do your own calculations to derive SV%? These guys must be better than what's on that site....otherwise, they'd get no love. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong?

View attachment 833025

I don't think the stats on Gamesheets are overly accurate and worthy of being part of assessing a goalie. I never trust shot counts at this level. Most people counting shots don't even know what a shot on net really means. Hell...even InStat gets them wrong...misses some shots and counts ones that were never on net.

The only accurate stats are GAA and Win/Loss...and those aren't even true goalie stats..they're team based.

i dont know a scout or team in the ohl that looks or cares about u16 goalie stats. they are all jaded and wrong.

 

[AAAdad]

is yse that good of a team in the grand scheme of things?

Well...define what a good team would be? The 2008 group has been consistenly in the top 8 in myhockeyraninkings over the last 3 seasons. Last year, 4th with a record of 64-9-10...seems to be a good indication of a talented or well-coached team that wins. I've watched them and they look good...I don't think their wins were lucky ones. Not sure how you view myhockeyrankings, though....I think it's a fair indication of how a team has performed.

 

[OHL4Life]

Well...define what a good team would be? The 2008 group has been consistenly in the top 8 in myhockeyraninkings over the last 3 seasons. Last year, 4th with a record of 64-9-10...seems to be a good indication of a talented or well-coached team that wins. I've watched them and they look good...I don't think their wins were lucky ones. Not sure how you view myhockeyrankings, though....I think it's a fair indication of how a team has performed.

a good team sure, I guess the way other dads were talking it was like they were a top OHL cup team with plenty of top pics. that’s not the case.

The rest of my points remain.

 

[OHL4Life]

Owen sound drafted a goalie off a very average to poor Elgin team last year in the 4th round. He had very average numbers and the team didn’t win a ton. he signed jr b Komoka who was the second worst team in JrB. he had maybe 6 wins all year, gaa over 3.5. but when you go see the kid play he battles and makes a ton of saves others couldn’t. owen sound signed him, he’s played games in the ohl and won the first playoff game against London by himself the other night.

so does playing on a good team matter? do stats matter? Or is it more performance and potential vs what you are today? I keep telling goalie dads it doesn’t matter where you are playing, but some need that cruch I guess.

Kitchener drafted a kid in the 7th round who played on a very average whitby team who may be the best 16 year old in he b. he had bad numbers in whitby but showed potential. there were way better teams with goalies with better numbers, but scouts don’t care, it’s about tomorrow, not today

 

[OHL4Life]

I get that of this is your first year there’s lots of insecurity and stress but don’t make excuses, if your kid shows potential he’ll be found. but, lots of dads thing thier kid is a great goalie but that doesn’t mean they are. no matter if your on the best or worst team, your proper not a pick

 

[dsanchez1973]

For the record, I'm not taking anything away from any of the goalies on that list. I just think that there are at least 10 other goalies flying under the radar on crappy teams who if you put them in net on YSE, Vaughan Kings, Barrie, or any other top teams for that matter, they would have very similar results...which begs the question, are these goalies that are expected to be drafted getting drafted because they are the 'best of the best', or are they just lucky enough to have grabbed a golden ticket, which in this case is a strong team that makes them look better than than they actually are?

I said it earlier in the thread, but you make it sound like some random goalie walked in off the street to play for Vaughan or Barrie and "got lucky enough to get a golden ticket". These goalies are on those teams for a reason - they've proven they're good enough not to beat the bottom feeders, but to stand up against the top teams in the playoffs and tournament late rounds. They have to show up to practice every day and face high powered offensive talent and give them a challenge.

You can sit and call it luck if you want. It's not true.

 

[SarniaStingFan]

Taking a look at the link, I'm not sure how you arrived at your numbers. Looking at Schaubel, I see a SV% of .878 for 27 games. Beites has a .786 on that site? Did you do your own calculations to derive SV%? These guys must be better than what's on that site....otherwise, they'd get no love. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong?

View attachment 833025

I don't think the stats on Gamesheets are overly accurate and worthy of being part of assessing a goalie. I never trust shot counts at this level. Most people counting shots don't even know what a shot on net really means. Hell...even InStat gets them wrong...misses some shots and counts ones that were never on net.

The only accurate stats are GAA and Win/Loss...and those aren't even true goalie stats..they're team based.

Yes you have to calculate the save percentage stats yourself. The numbers on GameSheet have all the goals against including the games where shots were not tracked. So you have to take those games out of the equation to get their actual save percentage numbers. I understand that these numbers are most likely not entirely accurate. I just put them up to give people an idea of the number. Just like points for players always take the numbers with a grain of salt

 

[MH]

A little off topic but for obvious reasons there are a lot of stressed/excited parents out there focused on the Draft. At this point your kid has been seen 20 to 40 times by each team. There is probably not much that will change between now and April 12 and 13 except a little tweaking. There is no one list. There are 20 lists and maybe the guy on Barrie isn't a fan of your kid (or just thinks someone else has more potential) but maybe the guy in Sarnia sees something that makes him a fan. Even if you don't get drafted there will be opportunities down the road. At this point it's out of your control. No politicking or argument you make on HF Board's will change it.

So here is my thought, especially for parents lucky enough to have a kid who is still playing. Enjoy it. You have three weeks left of driving your son to hockey. Whatever happens next year will be different. Kids and families will go in all sorts of directions. Some will move away. Some will stop playing. A lot will play U18 but even then people move all over. Kids will start driving themselves to the rink. The kids and families you spent years with won't be at the rink every game as they have been for years. So think back to how this all started, you and your son playing hockey because you both thought it was a fun way to spend time. A lot of people miss this and only figure it out after it's gone.

Good luck to all the kids in the draft.

 

[AAAdad]

I think there are multiple discussions going on here that are seemingly getting lumped in all together as 'excitable' draft prospect parents. I don't think that is the case at all.

I, for one, am mostly interested in the goalies for this draft. First and foremost because I'm a goalie dad but that's not the only reason. I find the position to be the most complex and unique in hockey. The only thing I'm sure of right now with regards to my son is that he will be playing next season be it U18, Junior B or A.

Being a goalie dad does not make me ignorant of the game...does not make me a homer for my son...does not make me incapable of assessing other goalies. I've coached. I've learned. I've watched. I know the position very well and I can assess quite fairly the weaknesses and strengths of goalies at many different levels. IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THEY'RE MY KID OR NOT. If I've watched a kid play multiple times, I think I have a pretty good take on their abilities...regardless of the team they're on.

Coaches, GMs and scouts....they have different opinions from each other, too. Hell....throw the group of them in a room and they'll fight each other over where a kid should be chosen. We have what appears to be only one OHL scout here...I find his/her take interesting although I have no idea of who they scouted for or what their track record is....but I take in what they have to say...I won't dismiss it simply because they are anonymous. We also have fans of the game and parents, too. Other than the glaringly obvious promotional posts...I find the discussion to be interesting as it comes from many different takes.

All that to say, please do not dismiss what I write simply because my kid is a prospect in this draft. I could have easily come on here and said I wasn't a parent...but I preferred to be transparent.

 

[HockeyPops]

I keep telling goalie dads it doesn’t matter where you are playing, but some need that cruch I guess.

That raises a couple other interesting questions from my standpoint:
Q1: What about player's dads?
Q2: What if your home center doesn't have U16AAA?

In the Soo, we haven't run U16AAA for over 10 years. Last year's U15AAA team was excellent, making it to the All Ontario finals. But 8 of the players from last year's team moved centers for this season because if they stayed in the Soo they were paying U18AAA due to not fielding a U16AAA team. Does the U18AAA loop get looked at? If those players had stayed would they have still gotten the exposure they are getting now on their various teams down south?

As an aside, the Soo is again trying to start up a U16AAA team for next season. We will see if they can make a go of it next year.

 

[OHL4Life]

That raises a couple other interesting questions from my standpoint:
Q1: What about player's dads?
Q2: What if your home center doesn't have U16AAA?

In the Soo, we haven't run U16AAA for over 10 years. Last year's U15AAA team was excellent, making it to the All Ontario finals. But 8 of the players from last year's team moved centers for this season because if they stayed in the Soo they were paying U18AAA due to not fielding a U16AAA team. Does the U18AAA loop get looked at? If those players had stayed would they have still gotten the exposure they are getting now on their various teams down south?

As an aside, the Soo is again trying to start up a U16AAA team for next season. We will see if they can make a go of it next year.

a bit of my background I use to help with our local minor hockey. volunteer on the board. part of our budget for the organization was to create goalie mentors for aaa teams goalies. local goalie coach who has a few pro and ohl clients on the ice with aaa goalies a few times a month. the amount t of complaints and negative feedback from the parents was surprising. none of it was the same. kids loved him but parents ran him off after the first year. for whatever reason in my limited experience, goalie dads are just a bit more high strung. perhaps your one of the non high strung ones, but there certainly looks like for whatever reason there’s more mental stress on parents in that position, and they generally push it outwards to coaches, managers, etc.

 

[AAAdad]

That raises a couple other interesting questions from my standpoint:
Q1: What about player's dads?
Q2: What if your home center doesn't have U16AAA?

I know OHL4life seems to think he has a good take on goalie dads...he's obviously never seen a goalie mom!! They're nuts!!!! LOL

I think it's a fairly broad brush to paint goalie dads as being high strung. Like he said, in his "limited experience".

Have you seen FWD parents?? Now that is an absolutely riot to watch and I don't have limited experience being a witness to that. Coaches love the emails they receive from them after every game! LOL

If your home center doesn't have a U16 AAA, I would have done the same as Ingram from the Soo. Not sure I would have moved to the G if I were him....but I would have likely gone to a region with U16 AAA. By the way, Ingram didn't have as noticeable season as I thought he would have had in JRC. Perhaps playing away from home in the G did this...or being considered 2nd to Camputaro all the ttime affected his confidence. But...I really liked Ingram's game last year and noticed he seemed off this season. I still really like his game and would absolutely consider him a good draft.

 

[flamebird]

That raises a couple other interesting questions from my standpoint:
Q1: What about player's dads?
Q2: What if your home center doesn't have U16AAA?

In the Soo, we haven't run U16AAA for over 10 years. Last year's U15AAA team was excellent, making it to the All Ontario finals. But 8 of the players from last year's team moved centers for this season because if they stayed in the Soo they were paying U18AAA due to not fielding a U16AAA team. Does the U18AAA loop get looked at? If those players had stayed would they have still gotten the exposure they are getting now on their various teams down south?

As an aside, the Soo is again trying to start up a U16AAA team for next season. We will see if they can make a go of it next year.

I can help here a bit... The franchise I know has a guy that covers every loop in Ontario (can't speak for every team). Those guys usually have a handle on the best players in their respective loops regardless of U16 or U18. The better players get found, and are talked about.

I think parents also forget that most U16 tournaments also have a U18 element to them whereby team personnel is also in the same arena. Good scouts/GMs will personally make time out of their schedules to watch a good player if they are indeed a good player.

My response to Q2, with another question -- would you have looked at other Ontario Prep Programs? Southern Ontario has options outside of the OMHA/GTHL where most of the SOO players ended up. Good players get found at the end of the day and outcomes would've remained the same had they played U18AAA -- whatever happens going forward

The ironic thing with the SOO is that they got awarded the host of the U18 OHF Championships (automatic entry). And if you're really that good, you'd have a chance at the Telus Cup. I believe they also wouldve qualified to play in the OHL Cup for Team NOHA -- which is an automatic OHL Cup Entry. That's 2 premier hockey tournaments across the whole country.