I mean, he is a solid two-way defenseman with some offensive upside and can play with some edge. Skates pretty well and should end up around 6ft.
I can see teams liking this kid, but around the 50-100 range.
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I mean, he is a solid two-way defenseman with some offensive upside and can play with some edge. Skates pretty well and should end up around 6ft.
I can see teams liking this kid, but around the 50-100 range.
guess I just haven’t seen enough. Looks like lots of soft skill limited aggression. figured mid rounds
GermanSpitfire
EU Video Scout for McKeen’s | Rest Easy #13
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It could very well be conformation bias for a lot of lists. Not too sure, I don’t look at other lists online personally, i don’t like to pay for content like that. That’s why I started creating lists on EP, so other people like me can view a reasonably reputable list for free. Bray could be this years Justin Huynh - in that he’s riding the wave of previous notoriety/hype in his age group with the public but the actual scouts know he’s a long shot.
Do you think Bray could grow to be a respectable height? And if he does, could he end up being a high end player in the OHL at some point? I think so, personally. Maybe he isn’t worth the risk in the first round with some of the discourse around here today, but I think if A team has a good amount of picks in the top 3 rounds, someone taking a risk on him in the 3rd isn’t out of the question. Then he can develop in Junior B for a year and if he grows he can contribute right away in his 17 year old season.
I could be wrong, but didn’t Ryan Ellis fall for the same reason, but he grew to 5’10” and obliterated the league for 4 seasons?
appreciate your input. I’ll take a closer look at your reccomendations. Xu is one I’d have in the second round for sure when I update it next.
What are others thoughts on Adam Kelly. From what I’ve seen he has struggled this season, and not produced as much as hoped. Do you you think he still has a chance at going top-40?
i dont mean to pile on, but who had him as a top 40 to start? Pre-season hype? I think preseason hype comes from more online/twitter stuff. I would love to see an audit on the accuracy of u15 lists vs final draft lists.
Ryan Ellis fell because he wanted a full ride and few teams were willing to offer it. Size probably played an element for some but he was elite in Cambridge. I think he picked his spot in windsor to be honest
with bray anything is possible, I just look to past behaviour to predict future behaviour, and 5’7 d struggle in the OHL , that’s why they don’t get drafted that high, I point to last year where the first d at 5’8 was in the 5th round. I think your bang on with huynh. all the online lists hyped him
As high as a first but he went in the 9th or whatever. and that to me is where is ask, how does 3/4 online list have him as a top 40 player but he goes 9th round. How do all those lists have him in the same spot but it doesn’t come close to reality. everyone said the same thing about bray they are about huynh.
So do these twitter scouts keep making the same error and lack of self awareness or do they keep going down the same path, just with different players?
I find it interesting as an observer with a bit of knowledge on the subject
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GermanSpitfire
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When I said “previous notoriety/hype” I meant he has been one of the top kids in his age group for quite some time, going all the way back to 2018 and his preformance at the brick. Now this season he is the highest producing defender on one of the top teams in Ontario. I can’t help but appreciate his offensive ability from the blueline as someone who doesn’t have the complete picture.
I think it’s absolutely fair to steer away from Bray early if you have a job on the line. Guys like Nathan Staios, Luca D’Amato or Lleyton Moore don’t often help you see success until their 20/21 year old seasons. It’s a risky proposition picking these kids. With someone like me for example, I have nothing on the line so I can rank a small skilled kid higher since I’m banking on their size not hindering much them at the next level, I did the same last year with William McFadden. I wouldn’t take such a risk if I was actually in charge of making a selection, however. It’s different when you don’t have anyone to answer to.
I’m not sure to be honest, I think that the “twitter scouts” are being harmed by lack of at the rink scouting if anything.
the problem with that is many kids mature early and are dominant at 12 are not at 16. i can name off guys like robbie burt who was the best player in north america at 14 and couldnt stick in the ohl by 19.
so then why dont they go out to rinks? youd think that if you want to scout, youd go scout and not just sit on your laptop. i get your unique circumstances but if your in ontario and just sit on the couch, what does that say about the scout?
I would also add, comparing a forward and a d are very different. I’d have no issue drafting a 5’7 forward in the 2nd if he was someone I’d like, forwards and defenders are very different
Who are pure goal scorers in this year draft?
And are there any stud defensemen ?
GermanSpitfire
EU Video Scout for McKeen’s | Rest Easy #13
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Can’t agree more.
Unfortunately I can only speak for myself. I work a day to day job, 10 hours a day and 6 days a week. Last year I lived in Krefeld, Germany and this year I live in Windsor. Not the best circumstances to watch all the kids in Ontario, live. So I have to take what I can get.
I also don’t do this for a living, it is a hobby. I don’t make a wage to do what I do. I imagine it’s the same for a lot of the people you see online, also. So if I’m able to identify 80% of the top talents in Ontario any given year on video, for no compensation, I’d say that’s pretty good.
For the people that do live in Toronto, I see no reason for them to rely on watching video for the OHL draft.
you do it as a hobby, dont charge for teams, etc. litteral definition of a hobby, thats all good, i get that. if you are working for a company and they are charging for content, they should be doing the right way and paying for you to be out. is it a list for a list sake or do they care about accuracy. do the younger scouts care about having a title or learning to do it the right way?
Clarke will be a top underrated candidate, stay at home D man. A great D in his own end. His +\- speaks for itself especially on the team he’s playing on. Comparable to guys like Luke Schenn someone who takes pride on the D side of the game.
This guy only talks about Clarke and is clearly affiliated, which is a shame.
Fun questions
Some of my favorite goal scorers this draft
- Brandon (Vaughan)
- Zurawski (Rebels)
- Belchetz (Oakville)
- Amidovski / Hawery (Barrie)
- Dagenais (Quinte) (might be going to the Q)
- Vaughan (Elgin)
Stud d-men is a tough one, lots of depth but lacking top pair d-men, as mentioned previously, lots of smaller offensive d-men, but here are a few options for two-way d-men that could hit if they pan out
- Croskery (Oakville)
- Blonda (Pitt)
- Kwajah (JRC)
- Koukouves (Marlies)
- Hicks (London)
- Mitchell (Petes)
- D'Alessio (Vaughan)
- Wathier (Eastern O)
- Smith (Oshawa)
- Roy (Halton)
- Gowan (Barrie)
- Xu (JRC)
Krangers08
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I don't think you understand the business model of companies posting draft lists. No OHL teams are paying these companies to create draft lists, and the only ones paying to subscribe to them are (speaking honestly) the parents who want to see where their kid is ranked. It creates a strong incentive to rank those kids whose parents subscribe, and there's no points for extra accuracy.
Not saying the prospect list posters are going to take 5-4, 110pound defenseman Johnny NoSKate and put him in the top 100, but the answer to your question is - maybe most young scouts start off wanting to do it the right way, but I suspect they quickly learn that's not how you follow what money there is in the game.
Logosarejusttargets
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I agree- the only way to get a true understanding of a player is watching live. The cameras and videos only capture snippets of the play. You need to see what that player is like away from the puck - that's a huge thing for the ohl draft eligible age kids - it can show hockey IQ and coachability. Skill will be evident on camera, it's the other things that matter almost as much if not more. While I understand that people have a lot of passion and derive enjoyment out of these lists I don't think it's worth the proverbial paper it's printed on if the scout(s) haven't taken in 5-10 games live against different teams in different circumstances. That's why not everyone does it
AAAdad
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First post....been lurking and have enjoyed reading this thread since the summer.
Full disclosure: Father of a U16 AAA kid who plays on a team ranked in the top 15 in Ontario...a goalie at that! So..that pretty much says that my kid is one of these 30 goalies but I'm not going to say who he is or his team. That's a pretty good full disclosure if you ask me!
So...dad alert...username says it all!
Curious for those in the know, their thoughts on these team's goalies and if there are any other goalies outside the top 15 teams who should be looked at. Obviously, a goalie on a top team does not necessarily beat out one on a lower ranked team. I'm not going to comment on any of these kids...they're all great and I don't feel it appropriate for me to say anything about them. I'll leave that to others.
Last year, a total of 33 goalies went in the draft.
The goalie position is unique and many don't really understand what makes a good one....from a scout's perspective, what is the process for these guys getting ranked or making a list? Do you have goalie "people" looking at them...or is it typically the same guys who look at all players? As well, a 15/16 year old goalie is much different than an 18 year old goalie...how much do teams really care about goalies in this 16 priority draft?
Full disclosure: Father of a U16 AAA kid who plays on a team ranked in the top 15 in Ontario...a goalie at that! So..that pretty much says that my kid is one of these 30 goalies but I'm not going to say who he is or his team. That's a pretty good full disclosure if you ask me!
So...dad alert...username says it all!Curious for those in the know, their thoughts on these team's goalies and if there are any other goalies outside the top 15 teams who should be looked at. Obviously, a goalie on a top team does not necessarily beat out one on a lower ranked team. I'm not going to comment on any of these kids...they're all great and I don't feel it appropriate for me to say anything about them. I'll leave that to others.
Last year, a total of 33 goalies went in the draft.
The goalie position is unique and many don't really understand what makes a good one....from a scout's perspective, what is the process for these guys getting ranked or making a list? Do you have goalie "people" looking at them...or is it typically the same guys who look at all players? As well, a 15/16 year old goalie is much different than an 18 year old goalie...how much do teams really care about goalies in this 16 priority draft?
Facts are that scouts aren't going to give lower teams as much of a look as they give the big teams. They have limited time to watch games and they're going to go where they get the most bang for their buck.First post....been lurking and have enjoyed reading this thread since the summer.
Full disclosure: Father of a U16 AAA kid who plays on a team ranked in the top 15 in Ontario...a goalie at that! So..that pretty much says that my kid is one of these 30 goalies but I'm not going to say who he is or his team. That's a pretty good full disclosure if you ask me!
Curious for those in the know, their thoughts on these team's goalies and if there are any other goalies outside the top 15 teams who should be looked at. Obviously, a goalie on a top team does not necessarily beat out one on a lower ranked team. I'm not going to comment on any of these kids...they're all great and I don't feel it appropriate for me to say anything about them. I'll leave that to others.
Last year, a total of 33 goalies went in the draft.
The goalie position is unique and many don't really understand what makes a good one....from a scout's perspective, what is the process for these guys getting ranked or making a list? Do you have goalie "people" looking at them...or is it typically the same guys who look at all players? As well, a 15/16 year old goalie is much different than an 18 year old goalie...how much do teams really care about goalies in this 16 priority draft?
My guidelines for checking out goalies would start with:
1) Measureables. How tall is the kid and how tall does he project to be? Inexact science to be sure, but it's just one of the positions where height matters. Anything unusual like lefthandedness?
2) Stats. I always do a couple of things as a precursor - first, let's toss out the blowout games. I don't care if you can shut out the 75th-ranked team when you're on the 20th-ranked team. After that, I like to do the same to his main goalie partner, then compare stats. I want to see that playing behind the same defense, against similar caliber opposition, you're outplaying your goalie partner.
3) Facing elites? What games have you played against top 10ish opposition and how did it go? If I'm projecting forward, I want to know if you can make saves against kids who will play at the next level.
If all of that checks out, then you become a name I want to see play, and it comes down to a more technical goalie analysis at that point of how you move, rebound control, communication with defense, etc etc. Goalie specialist or coach would be a part of this evaluation.
If the kid is short, the parents are short, his adjusted stats are pretty much the same as his partner, and when he faces an elite team he gives up a touchdown? Probably not going to be high on my must watch list.
First post....been lurking and have enjoyed reading this thread since the summer.
Full disclosure: Father of a U16 AAA kid who plays on a team ranked in the top 15 in Ontario...a goalie at that! So..that pretty much says that my kid is one of these 30 goalies but I'm not going to say who he is or his team. That's a pretty good full disclosure if you ask me!
Curious for those in the know, their thoughts on these team's goalies and if there are any other goalies outside the top 15 teams who should be looked at. Obviously, a goalie on a top team does not necessarily beat out one on a lower ranked team. I'm not going to comment on any of these kids...they're all great and I don't feel it appropriate for me to say anything about them. I'll leave that to others.
Last year, a total of 33 goalies went in the draft.
The goalie position is unique and many don't really understand what makes a good one....from a scout's perspective, what is the process for these guys getting ranked or making a list? Do you have goalie "people" looking at them...or is it typically the same guys who look at all players? As well, a 15/16 year old goalie is much different than an 18 year old goalie...how much do teams really care about goalies in this 16 priority draft?
the post above is all 100 percent good info. size is the biggest factor right now, no doubt, some teams get too hung up on it at times (see carter george) but i cant say that its a non factor, it is.
teams proiritize goalies differently, there will be teams that identify goalies and need them right away, so they will drat them in the top 3/4 rounds, once one goes you generally see a few go. bigger goalies 6'1 and above get more love then goalies that are 5'11 and below, regardless of teams. i remember hunter jones was on the worst team in ontario but was one of the first goalies drafted because of his size and athletisism.
if your goalie son is 5'7 but plays like he's 6'4, relying on his size and station to station play to make saves then the thought will be that he will struggle to move forward. the shorter the goalie the more competitive and skilled, athletic he needs to be.
i think every team uses this draft to bring in future goalies, just some are better then others. hamilton is very good, kitchener i think is very good, owen sound and north bay for me are all very good identifiers on goalies. a team like sudbury seems to really struggle and constantly trading for other teams backups. every team in theory needs this draft to bring in future goalies, just for whatever reason some are better then others.
believe me i get it, i just remember seeing someone like nick sinclair from iss, lafortune from the scout, thacker from hockey prospect out at every tournament and every showcase. they did it and did it well, the financial side didnt seem to be a factor, no reason the new age of scouts cant either.
i do see a few younger scouts at gams just making face time and hoepfully improve their craft. i hope that for thier sake the keep at it and remain patient, they will get rewarded sooner then the video guys imo.
HockeyPops
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I wonder how much of this success is a team's drafting, and how much of it is a team's development of goalies?
could be all of the above, but with sudbury its odd, they have a good jr a team that they send goalies too at 16 which in theory should do nothing but benefit them. coaching could be a big factor too, i know nothing of that for any of the teams.
i think most of it is identification with sudbury, they often draft guys that are bigger and less agile, more 'nhl' types vs the jr types. they took gaulden who may be a good ohl goalie some day over carter goerge, that is something they've been doing for years. they just rely on the import draft and trades.
nelli27
Moderator
I'm a little late to the party, but just wanted to congratulate you on the new scouting position.
As for small D-man who made their mark in the OHL, you're right, not too many.
Victor Mete was small when he joined the Knights and he only grew to 5'9". His game didn't translate well at the next level.
OHLTG
Registered User
I haven't posted much in this thread but this comment caught my eye. Windsor drafted Ryan Ellis in 2007, all 5'9 175lbs of him, in the second round. We all saw what happened with that. Unfortunately, Rychel tried to replicate that a few times, bringing in Auger, Bateman (via trade), Webermin, and Staios over the years, but only Staios worked out and that was after he was traded to Hamilton. Cristoforo is TBD right now but, when I see Windsor pick up a smaller Dman in the early rounds, I get ugly flashbacks thinking "here we go again."
ya 5’9 isn’t so bad in the OHL, it’s ok to have 1, not 6. it’s the 5’7 guys that some ppl rate as first round picks that confused me. no history of success of 5’7 d in the OHL for them to be taken that high
I scouted for 15 years pre COVID, decided to put a toe in this year and see if I still want to do it
Team Canada finished the round robin of the Youth Olympic games this morning beating Finland 4-1 to finish 2-0 and first in their group. Vaughan Kings forward Alessandro Di Iorio had a hat trick in the win. Not much from the Ontario kids in the two games outside of Di Iorio. Di Iorio has 4G/1A, Adam Valentini has 1G, and Beckham Edwards has 1A. Colin Ellisworth had three saves in the third period of an 8-0 win over South Korea. Canada plays in the semis tomorrow morning against the USA
