Zegras vs Suzuki

Who?

  • Suzuki

  • Zegras


Results are only viewable after voting.

Zegs2sendhelp

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jul 25, 2012
42,267
38,993
Maybe. And maybe what I said has a bit of truth to it too.
Maybe a little…. I do think the age can be a pretty significant factor when discussing players that are still considered developing.

So, is being 'exciting' an relevant metric or not?

Calling Suzuki vanilla, is it ... positive somehow if he's a 2-way player?

Not comparing anyone here, just their style.



Hahaha, I knew you would chug that cheap bait. So this is where all the 'habs fans compared is player to X player' comments comes from! From haters (yeah you Zegs2sendhelp) who sneakily change the narrative to seduce their own anti-X agenda. Thanks for confirming what we already knew anyway.

Just read again my dude, I never compared anyone, only questionned the type of player. In this case, 'not exciting' solid 2-way players.
What agenda? Lol I could care less if zegras is voted better player than Suzuki on hfboard poll.

If anything I believe it’s borderline offensive to even have suzuki in a poll with zegras, I think he’s that much better than suzuki.
 

J bo Jeans

Registered User
Aug 7, 2020
1,232
1,766
Ottawa
Has anyone who has watched Zegras and Suzuki truly believe that right now, Zegras gives his team a better chance at winning than Suzuki lol?

Flash factor? yeah. Maybe in 2 years pans out better? Could be. Right now? Suzuki.
 

TheKrebsCycle

Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
Jun 1, 2011
7,143
2,617
Barrie
Has anyone who has watched Zegras and Suzuki truly believe that right now, Zegras gives his team a better chance at winning than Suzuki lol?

Flash factor? yeah. Maybe in 2 years pans out better? Could be. Right now? Suzuki.
Why would that be ? Both meh on D wheras Zegras has far more potential offensively ( and better there currently ) . While additionally being younger . Not an overly tough choice on the guy most would want going forward given the above factors
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Nico Cauzuki

PainForShane

formerly surfshop
Dec 24, 2019
2,822
3,270
I'm going to vote against Zegras here. Zona fan and i don't really have a strong Suzuki opinion either way, but I have a strong anti-Zegras opinion.

Maybe none of you remember a random game at the end of the 2022 season, Ducks beat Yotes 5-0 in AZ, they came in on an 11 game losing streak (the Ducks I mean) and absolutely smashed us. Toward the end of that game (score was already 5-0), Zegras poked our goalie trying to dislodge a puck that was already covered, melee ensued and Troy Terry got his ass beat by Jay Beagle of all ppl, who is clearly not known for fighting. After the game Zegras ran his mouth to press, saying things like, "I'm not going to name names but that player is an embarrassment," went on to rip Jay Beagle for going after Terry but Zegras was the one who started the entire thing by poking the goalie in the first place in the final mins of a 5-0 away win.

Zero accountability for his own actions. At that moment I was like, "ok I'm glad we don't have this guy on the Yotes." Undeniably good offensively, but we've all been on teams where the best players are not good leaders, rarely do those teams win. Zegras is still young so plenty of time to become a better leader (of course), and we'll see what happens w the Ducks in the future. But for me, I feel relieved that Zegras doesn't play for the Yotes
 

Nico Cauzuki

Registered User
Jul 19, 2009
6,561
6,718
King Of The North
Zegras is two years younger and has 1 less point in 8 less games over the last two years, and his production before the NHL suggests he's got a higher ceiling than Suzuki.
offensively yes he does but its not "far superior" and hes defensive game is way behind Suzuki even Ducks fans suggest he should play on the wing which im sure he will moving forward like i said in my previous post Trevor will give you more points but you'll win more with Nick

No GM looking at winning now takes Zegras over Suzuki future idk will see Zegras does have the higher ceilling but if your looking at winning today its Suzuki
 
Last edited:

Zegs2sendhelp

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jul 25, 2012
42,267
38,993
I'm going to vote against Zegras here. Zona fan and i don't really have a strong Suzuki opinion either way, but I have a strong anti-Zegras opinion.

Maybe none of you remember a random game at the end of the 2022 season, Ducks beat Yotes 5-0 in AZ, they came in on an 11 game losing streak (the Ducks I mean) and absolutely smashed us. Toward the end of that game (score was already 5-0), Zegras poked our goalie trying to dislodge a puck that was already covered, melee ensued and Troy Terry got his ass beat by Jay Beagle of all ppl, who is clearly not known for fighting. After the game Zegras ran his mouth to press, saying things like, "I'm not going to name names but that player is an embarrassment," went on to rip Jay Beagle for going after Terry but Zegras was the one who started the entire thing by poking the goalie in the first place in the final mins of a 5-0 away win.

Zero accountability for his own actions. At that moment I was like, "ok I'm glad we don't have this guy on the Yotes." Undeniably good offensively, but we've all been on teams where the best players are not good leaders, rarely do those teams win. Zegras is still young so plenty of time to become a better leader (of course), and we'll see what happens w the Ducks in the future. But for me, I feel relieved that Zegras doesn't play for the Yotes
All i saw was Beagle going after Terry, cause he didnt want the smoke from Zegras.
 

Zegs2sendhelp

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jul 25, 2012
42,267
38,993
offensively yes he does but its not "far superior" and hes defensive game is way behind Suzuki even Ducks fans suggest he should play on the wing which im sure he will moving forward like i said in my previous post Trevor will give you more points but you'll win more with Nick

No GM looking at winning now takes Zegras over Suzuki future idk will see Zegras does have the higher ceilling but if your looking at winning today its Suzuki
I always found argument a bit odd.

Zegras literally dragged his usa team to a gold medal... and we still don't know how much of his defense is a result of a terrible Eakins system.

Just a random predraft thing, and a lot of his predraft write ups suggest he can be a solid contribute in the D zone. Obviously im not saying hes going to win a Selke... but i think hes shown flashes of being solid in the d zone already at the NHL level, and in a better system i dont think there is any reason to believe his dzone play wont look better.

Defensive Game​


Zegras works hard in his own end of the ice. He backchecks hard and supports the defence down low. He uses his quickness and an active stick to create turnovers. Once the puck does change possession, he transitions quickly to offence. Zegras has good positioning and seems to always be on the right side of the puck. He is also good in the face-off circle. Zegras isn’t the biggest hitter but is willing to get involved in puck battles and board work in his own end. He also uses his smarts, positioning, and anticipation to be effective in his own end of the rink.
 

PainForShane

formerly surfshop
Dec 24, 2019
2,822
3,270
All i saw was Beagle going after Terry, cause he didnt want the smoke from Zegras.

Nah, Beagle crosschecked Zegras who immediately turtled, then a couple different Ducks engaged him and he ended up matched up with Terry and subsequently whaled on him (Terry didn't actually drop his gloves, that probably would've helped).

Not a great look but again, imo the true embarrassment is that Zegras didn't accept responsibility at all for starting that entire thing. Kind of off topic I guess but I personally don't cheer for players like that and don't want them anywhere on my team's roster
 

Zegs2sendhelp

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jul 25, 2012
42,267
38,993
Nah, Beagle crosschecked Zegras who immediately turtled, then a couple different Ducks engaged him and he ended up matched up with Terry and subsequently whaled on him (Terry didn't actually drop his gloves, that probably would've helped).

Not a great look but again, imo the true embarrassment is that Zegras didn't accept responsibility at all for starting that entire thing. Kind of off topic I guess but I personally don't cheer for players like that and don't want them anywhere on my team's roster
The tap was nothing... no whistle had blown.

"turtle" is different.... Beagle crosschecked zegras from behind... and he fell which is prob a pretty normal thing to do after a crosscheck from behind you dont see coming.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ohcomeonref

PainForShane

formerly surfshop
Dec 24, 2019
2,822
3,270
The tap was nothing... no whistle had blown.

"turtle" is different.... Beagle crosschecked zegras from behind... and he fell which is prob a pretty normal thing to do after a crosscheck from behind you dont see coming.

Zegras' goalie tap was completely inappropriate at the end of a 5-0 game. If you do that at the end of that type of game (esp if you are winning 5-0 away), you're going to start a scrum every time.

The crosscheck was nothing also. I mean, to be clear it was def a crosscheck but it wasn't hard or made with intent to injure. Zegras went down, immediately covered his head then took his time getting up, didn't even contribute to the melee he started. Then after the fact ran his mouth to the press.

After watching the replay, I'd still describe Zegras' behavior as turtling, but no one was really going after him (after the initial crosscheck) so maybe you're right, maybe it's not turtling, it's not like he was huddling there trying to minimize damage from punches. Either way imo still an absolutely terrible look
 

The Gr8 Dane

L'harceleur
Jan 19, 2018
13,178
26,074
Montréal
Zegras has put up more points the last 2 years and is 2 years younger and on a historically bad team.
Zegras being younger is a good point but Anaheim have had more point production from their players than Habs have had in the past two years so the historically bad team team thing doesn't hold up here. when comparing offensive production for both
 

Kaiden Ghoul

Youppi va t’il devoir chauser ses patins calvaince
Jan 19, 2020
1,080
831
Depend if Sopel have a kid in the league in the future i guess

Would pick Suzuki in either case
 

ohcomeonref

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Oct 18, 2014
6,783
7,851
Alberta, Canada
I'm going to vote against Zegras here. Zona fan and i don't really have a strong Suzuki opinion either way, but I have a strong anti-Zegras opinion.

Maybe none of you remember a random game at the end of the 2022 season, Ducks beat Yotes 5-0 in AZ, they came in on an 11 game losing streak (the Ducks I mean) and absolutely smashed us. Toward the end of that game (score was already 5-0), Zegras poked our goalie trying to dislodge a puck that was already covered, melee ensued and Troy Terry got his ass beat by Jay Beagle of all ppl, who is clearly not known for fighting. After the game Zegras ran his mouth to press, saying things like, "I'm not going to name names but that player is an embarrassment," went on to rip Jay Beagle for going after Terry but Zegras was the one who started the entire thing by poking the goalie in the first place in the final mins of a 5-0 away win.

Zero accountability for his own actions. At that moment I was like, "ok I'm glad we don't have this guy on the Yotes." Undeniably good offensively, but we've all been on teams where the best players are not good leaders, rarely do those teams win. Zegras is still young so plenty of time to become a better leader (of course), and we'll see what happens w the Ducks in the future. But for me, I feel relieved that Zegras doesn't play for the Yotes

I'm relieved he's not wasted on the Yotes too.
 

DaPhazz

Registered User
Jun 30, 2016
1,439
980
Verdun, Montréal
Maybe a little…. I do think the age can be a pretty significant factor when discussing players that are still considered developing.


What agenda? Lol I could care less if zegras is voted better player than Suzuki on hfboard poll.

If anything I believe it’s borderline offensive to even have suzuki in a poll with zegras, I think he’s that much better than suzuki.

If your 'I could care less' equals putting words in people mouth to later bash on a whole fanbase, you certainly doesn't give a shit !
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Gr8 Dane

Kairi Zaide

Unforgiven
Aug 11, 2009
105,323
12,880
Quebec City
It is unlikely that he would maintain a 11.5% on ice sh%. I shouldn't have to explain why. Look at his oish% by season, maybe you can spot the outlier:
6.39
7.99
8.19
11.49

He had 64 GF vs 47 xGF. A skilled player should typically have a higher GF vs xGF, but not by that proportion.

Zegras had 57 GF vs 52 xGF.
I basically gave you the explanation. St-Louis + Caufield popping off. He's at ~11-12% ever since St-Louis took over at 5v5. Before that he played with guys that had no finishing at all. Anderson, Armia, Drouin, etc. You name them. Toffoli was basically his teammate with good finishing and that was just for half of 20-21. His finishing was horrid before him getting traded in 21-22.

All of this came at the expense of his defensive game. As long as he plays with Caufield, unless something happens to Cole, the GF - xGF comparison is always going to be in the positive by a non negligible amount.

For the record, if we look at the 3 past years combined (to compare sustainability), his "(GF - xGF)/60" of last season (0.675) would rank 14th amongst forwards over the past 3 years combined. And there are guys like Schmaltz, Hartman, Kyrou, McCann, Thomas, Buchnevich, Wilson, Burakovsky, Schenn, Keller, etc. ahead or around that mark for the combined 3 years. This is hardly something that is only for superstars, and this happens far more frequently and sustainably than you'd think. (I'm using EH data without correction fyi - corrections wouldn't change anything much).

His career avg shooting percentage coming into this year was 11.2%. If he had shot his average, he'd have 18 goals last year instead of 26, which is a difference of 8 goals.
I did misread and miscalc there. But, regardless, if you want to look at sustainability you can't just take his SH% as a whole while forgetting context. His rookie season is, as of now, just as big of a outlier career wise as last season. When you compare career stats to one season's stat to assess sustainability, you generally have to include said season - especially for players that are progressing.

His excess of goals, as I stated, comes from the slot/crease where he had higher finishing than previous years. xGF does a bad job assessing the true dangers of shots in the crease.

If you want to break down by strength, to see what we can observe. FTR all I said up until this point was BEFORE I made this table, and I don't want to go change stuff :
(Career incl. 22-23)All5v5PP5v5+PPOther (PK, OT3v3, 4v4, etc.)
Career - TOI5564.814136.03808.834944.86619.95
Career - SH%12.58%9.77%21.01%12.36%14.10%
Career - Shots59639911951878
Career - Shots/606.435.798.836.297.55
Career - Goals7539256411
Career - Goals/600.810.571.850.781.06
2022-23 - TOI1729.831214.70273.051487.75242.08
2022-23 - SH%16.05%13.46%20.59%15.22%20.83%
2022-23 - Shots1621043413824
2022-23 - Shots/605.625.147.475.575.95
2022-23 - Goals26147215
2022-23 - Goals/600.900.691.540.851.24
As we can see, the main changes in sh% occur at 5v5 and in other situations. I didn't look into the details for those because there are too many of them, but the quick notes are 1) Suzuki only started playing on the PK last season and 2) he's never scored an empty net goals. At a quick glance it seems I can find 2 PK goals, 1 4v4 and 1 goal with empty net. These other situations are too inconsistent to make any projection with.

His 5v5 sh% is higher than his career sh% by about ~4%, so about 4 goals based on the number of shots he took. And, I will actually bring your attention to said number of shots, notably his /60 rate. It's considerably lower than his career numbers - not as much as his sh% is higher though. This suggests something very obvious : Now that he has an elite finisher to play with, he may shoot a bit less because his better option is now a pass rather than a shot in certain situations. This may explain why his number of low-danger unblock shot attempt rate is quite lower if you look at MoneyPuck (6.32 per 60 before this season and 5.07 per 60 this season; 5.93 per 60 career wise).

Naturally, by taking a higher number of medium and high danger shots, his sh% will be higher. Is 13.46% at 5v5 a bit high? Sure, but that also barely ranks top 30 in the league last season. It's not a Nelson or Zacha case where they both shot above 16%, either.

In the end, saying that "if he shot his career average this season he would have scored X" as I suggested is a bit inaccurate because it seems he is taking less shots likely as a result of having played more with a confident, non-broken Cole. If his sh% was lower, it likely would have meant he would have shot more, thus mitigating a little. And, in the end, it's not like he scored 12399 more goals than his previous best.

So, yeah, my conclusion with all of this is you're putting way too much emphasis onto something that once regularized will likely be pretty much inconsequential. Thinking he'll scored ~20-30 goals with his talent and shot is nothing far fetched.
 

DearDiary

🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷
Aug 29, 2010
15,152
12,455
I'm so confused why this is the reaction.

He is being compared to a guy described by Habs fans as a 2-way #2 center. And only has 61% of the vote. How is he overated? It isn't like he is being compared to Jack Hughes.

Overrated with how much talk there is in the media/forums about a 2nd line player who plays a 1 dimensional game.
 

ohcomeonref

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Oct 18, 2014
6,783
7,851
Alberta, Canada
Overrated with how much talk there is in the media/forums about a 2nd line player who plays a 1 dimensional game.

Coming into the one Zegras thread per month that gets made to cry about how much he gets talked about is just pure salt. He shows more personality than most NHLers, shows some flash, and thus gets media attention. Get over it
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad