Zegras vs Suzuki

[Speyer]

Zegras has put up more points the last 2 years and is 2 years younger and on a historically bad team.

This is factually wrong. The question is also ambiguous. I read it as who the better player is at this point and age has nothing to do with this. Op didn't ask specifically which player has more value or potential. And Monréal was just as bad in the last two years as Anaheim was. There is a reason the got the first overall pick last year.

 

[Mrb1p]

19 months difference between the two, a year and a half.

Suzukis just as good offensively (Id say better) and brings more to the table. He plays hard, plays a two-way game (Even if his results arent great on this team.) and he brings major leadership.

Its gonna be the other way around because Zegras has a weird hype around him and because Suzuki is a Hab but its fine, we know whats what.

 

[Mrb1p]

at the same age

Zegras put up 61, 65 to Suzukis 41, 41.

I think zegras has the higher potential, right now they are pretty close…. The poll doesn’t really say this year or going forward…. So assuming it’s going forward , zegras pretty comfortably…. This year prob debatable

At the same age they put up
.82 / .58 PPG
.79 / .73

First season was mostly played on the fourth line wing for Suzuki, meanwhile Zegras was mostly playing with Terry and Henrique for the majority of his first year. In Suzukis first year, he had a rotating door of Jordan Weal, Joel Armia, Nate Thompson, Arturri Lekhonen and Nick Cousins.

Its so easy to not show bias.

 

[LemonSauceD]

19 months difference between the two, a year and a half.

Suzukis just as good offensively (Id say better) and brings more to the table. He plays hard, plays a two-way game (Even if his results arent great on this team.) and he brings major leadership.

It’s gonna be the other way around because Zegras has a weird hype around him and because Suzuki is a Hab but it’s fine, we know whats what.

Some are acting like Zegras is the better player by a longshot and the reasons aren’t really all that convincing.

Suzuki is as good offensively and absolutely blows Zegras out the water defensively. Zegras offensively ability isn’t enough to justify the difference.

Where one could say Zegras is more offensively talented, one can argue Suzuki’s defensive game is dozens of times better which overlaps him. Zegras is not a 200ft player at all.

Zegras could be a 90 point player, and Suzuki a 75 point player, and I’d still take Suzuki because of the other things he brings.

I will say Zegras has the higher ceiling, that discussion isn’t up for debate.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

At the same age they put up
.82 / .58 PPG
.79 / .73

First season was mostly played on the fourth line wing for Suzuki, meanwhile Zegras was mostly playing with Terry and Henrique for the majority of his first year. In Suzukis first year, he had a rotating door of Jordan Weal, ui Joel Armia, Nate Thompson, Arturri Lekhonen and Nick Cousins.

Its so easy to not show bias.

We already established that I didn’t account for the shortened season…. Read the thread

19 months difference between the two, a year and a half.

Suzukis just as good offensively (Id say better) and brings more to the table. He plays hard, plays a two-way game (Even if his results arent great on this team.) and he brings major leadership.

Its gonna be the other way around because Zegras has a weird hype around him and because Suzuki is a Hab but its fine, we know whats what.

Lol the bias talk and then read this you are the silliest person on these boards… acting like Anaheim is some hype area of the hockey world

 

[Mrb1p]

Some are acting like Zegras is the better player by a longshot and the reasons aren’t really all that convincing.

Suzuki is as good offensively and absolutely blows Zegras out the water defensively. Zegras offensively ability isn’t enough to justify the difference.

Where one could say Zegras is more offensively talented, one can argue Suzuki’s defensive game is dozens of times better which overlaps him. Zegras is not a 200ft player at all.

Zegras could be a 90 point player, and Suzuki a 75 point player, and I’d still take Suzuki because of the other things he brings.

I will say Zegras has the higher ceiling, that discussion isn’t up for debate.

Not sure Zegras is more talented than Suzuki. Nick is one of the most talented kid in the NHL. Id say hands and passing is esentialy a wash, Zegras takes it on skating but Nick obliterates him on shooting.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Zegras
65p in 81gp
9.6% on ice sh% at 5v5
+4.10 xGF%

Suzuki
66p in 82gp
11.5% on ice sh% at 5v5
-0.85 rel xGF%

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Zegras has a lot more talent and is the easy pick here imo . Suzuki is a good player but incredibly vanilla

 

[Mrb1p]

Zegras has a lot more talent and is the easy pick here imo . Suzuki is a good player but incredibly vanilla

Lmao Zegras is the definition of vanilla

 

[Kairi Zaide]

Zegras
65p in 81gp
9.6% on ice sh% at 5v5
+4.10 xGF%

Suzuki
66p in 82gp
11.5% on ice sh% at 5v5
-0.85 rel xGF%

 

[ricky0034]

I'm so confused why this is the reaction.

He is being compared to a guy described by Habs fans as a 2-way #2 center. And only has 61% of the vote. How is he overated? It isn't like he is being compared to Jack Hughes.

it's always so baffling

I never really ever see anyone overrating him at all but for some reason I probably see people call Zegras overrated more often than I do any other player

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Lmao Zegras is the definition of vanilla

27p in 12 career WJC games, absolutely took apart the competition with highlight reel goals and passes, including a clutch performance in the gold medal game vs a Canada team that people were talking about as the best in tournament history.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

it's always so baffling

I never really ever see anyone overrating him at all but for some reason I probably see people call Zegras overrated more often than I do any other player

It's not exactly baffling. Zegras gets a lot of attention despite playing for Anaheim due to his marketability as an American born player. So, whenever the league or american networks have a chance, they'll run with it. If a player is talked about a lot, people will assume he's getting overrated. It's really as simple. Because most fans associate "popularity" and "star power" with how good you are when in reality there are far more than impact on games that goes into those.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

View attachment 737984View attachment 737985

So Suzuki has a negative impact on offense and defense, while Zegras has a positive impact on offense and negative impact on defense? And Zegras is better on the PP?

This isn't supporting your case for Suzuki over Zegras lol.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Lmao Zegras is the definition of vanilla

How’s that ? You know that vanilla means boring right ? That’s Suzuki…, not Zegras . I’m a fan of neither team so I recon I’m a bit more unbiased ..

 

[Kairi Zaide]

So Suzuki has a negative impact on offense and defense, while Zegras has a positive impact on offense and negative impact on defense? And Zegras is better on the PP?

This isn't supporting your case for Suzuki over Zegras lol.

You should learn to not make incorrect inferences sometime.

 

[John Mandalorian]

A Zegras sounds like a brand of moped/scooter that you commonly see teenagers driving around Italy or Greece. A Suzuki is obviously a motorcycle.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You should learn to not make incorrect inferences sometime.

Like what? Suzuki's xGF impact is negative, no?

 

[The90]

I’m taking suzuki as a leaf fan.

 

[Mrb1p]

How’s that ? You know that vanilla means boring right ? That’s Suzuki…, not Zegras . I’m a fan of neither team so I recon I’m a bit more unbiased ..

How is this boring? He dekes like this in pretty much every game, he wires shots from the dots, he slings crazy passes, he taunts the enemy with his shit eater grin, he scores beauty datsyukians so goals and he even hits once in a while.

Underrated is right.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

Like what? Suzuki's xGF impact is negative, no?

First, the correct interpretation from these charts - or pretty much any advanced stats - is that they had similar impact overall last season. You're operating within inherent margin of errors of the statistical methods used.

Secondly, it's demonstrable that a combination of actual production AND expected production (and IIRC there's more weight on actual production) at Season N is better at predicting future production in Season N+1 than just either alone. You're putting a lot of weight on "expected" while ignoring the "actual", and if you follow development within the field, emphasis on "finishing" has increased. You can't ignore a player's ability at creating high % scoring chance and exploiting their teammate's strength when it's done repeatedly. Suzuki is a really good finisher.

Purely relative stats (and % too) are comparable for similar volume and context, which isn't exactly the case here for the latter. And, anyways, when you look at their difference in xGF±, it's a difference of 4 xG over their entire season. That is pretty much negligible and external factors that xG doesn't account for could explain a lot. Relative stats are also very sensible to hot streaks and cold streaks of teammates.

Lastly, I voted Zegras because he's fancier and funnier to watch, and at roughly equal impact, give me the more entertaining player - since I watch hockey to be entertained first and foremost.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

First, the correct interpretation from these charts - or pretty much any advanced stats - is that they had similar impact overall last season. You're operating within inherent margin of errors of the statistical methods used.

Secondly, it's demonstrable that a combination of actual production AND expected production (and IIRC there's more weight on actual production) at Season N is better at predicting future production in Season N+1 than just either alone. You're putting a lot of weight on "expected" while ignoring the "actual", and if you follow development within the field, emphasis on "finishing" has increased. You can't ignore a player's ability at creating high % scoring chance and exploiting their teammate's strength when it's done repeatedly. Suzuki is a really good finisher.

Purely relative stats (and % too) are comparable for similar volume and context, which isn't exactly the case here for the latter. And, anyways, when you look at their difference in xGF±, it's a difference of 4 xG over their entire season. That is pretty much negligible and external factors that xG doesn't account for could explain a lot. Relative stats are also very sensible to hot streaks and cold streaks of teammates.

Lastly, I voted Zegras because he's fancier and funnier to watch, and at roughly equal impact, give me the more entertaining player - since I watch hockey to be entertained first and foremost.

Again, look at their on ice sh% at 5v5 last year. Suzuki's 11.5% is way ahead of his average, while Zegras's 9.6% is right where it should be.

Suzuki's individual shooting % of 16% was also way above his average and likely not sustainable.

The fact that their production was effectively identical, but with Zegras having more sustainable underlying numbers, is telling.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I would rather have Suzuki as my teams best center vs Zegras. If you're picking a number 2, I'd probably still pick Suzuki.

Might have a bit to do with Zegras' face, idk

 

[ohcomeonref]

Lmao Zegras is the definition of vanilla

Credibility = lost

 

[Gliff]

This is factually wrong. The question is also ambiguous. I read it as who the better player is at this point and age has nothing to do with this. Op didn't ask specifically which player has more value or potential. And Monréal was just as bad in the last two years as Anaheim was. There is a reason the got the first overall pick last year.

Both got 61 points in 21-22. Zegras did it in 7 less games.
Zegras had 1 less point in 1 less game in 22-23.

Sure, Suzuki scored 1 more point in 8 more games. Happy?