News Article: Zach Bogosian - Signs with Tampa

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Rowley Birkin

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Oct 31, 2004
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I was thinking today about whether or not fans feel bad for Andrew Ladd, Milan Lucic, Loui Eriksson, or David Backes.

I landed on ‘No’.

It's not about fans - it's about other players & their agents. I just think at this stage - while KO is still at least a serviceable player, with so much term remaining & the structure of his contract - it's not a good look.

I'm not defending his contract BTW I hated it from the second it was announced.
 

Zman5778

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Oct 4, 2005
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I am still baffled by Botts. How the hell did this not happen months ago.

And for the Ferris comment, have your client forfeit 1.5 million. Seems like a mutual termination would be fine, since we won't get anything for him.

Of all the things Botts has and has not done, this situation doesn't baffle me at all.

Started the season injured.
Came back and was a tire fire.
Got some healthy scratches, likely to help him get back up to "game speed" and not look so lost.
Comes back again, still looks like ****.
With healthy scratches on the horizon, asks out.
Botts tries, can't find deal. Bogo's agent tries, can't find deal.
Botts and Bogo's agent come to an agreement to release him.

Timing makes sense to me. And with the TDL coming up and Botts unable to get anything, it was time to say goodbye.
 

Bendium

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Oct 18, 2019
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The NHL definitely has more issues with its contracts, partly due to the guarantees, than almost any other league. One thing I would like to see, is the arbitration system expanded to allow teams to take a player who is severely underperforming their contract to arbitration and get some relief on the contract. When a new contract is signed, it is basically at an amount where the player says, " I want X amount because I am going to give you a minimum of Y value per year." The team agrees to pay that money for that expected performance. If the player falls far enough out of the expected range for long enough a period, then the team could request the contract be arbitrated. For example, Kyle had 3 straight years here he produced more then .8 PPG. That's what his contract was for him to continue doing. Therte should be some percent drop from that where the team can arbitrate it. His first 2 years with Buffalo he averaged .63 PPG. That's is probably not enough of a change given team system, players they play with, coach usage, etc, to triger arbitration. However, last year he played 78 games and only averaged .37 PPG in a bottom six role. This is less than half the production he was signed for. One bad year likely wouldn't do it either, but right now he is on pace for 65 games and 20 pts, which is again .31 PPG in a bottom six role. This should trigger an arbitration. The burden of proof is on the team, but if the arbitrator agrees that the player is not living up to the agreement, then they would look at contracts of players with similar production and reduce the contract to a value that is say...150% of the average. Something where the player is still overpaid, but not grossly so. This gives the team appropriate cap relief for the production, and makes the contract more tradeable. Even if Kyles contract was reduced from 6M AAV to 4.5 M AAV going forward, it would make it more palatable.
 
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brian_griffin

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This was brought up the other day in a Sabres related conversation (not at this forum).

It was pointed out that after eating lots of K buyout money for quite a while when he first bought the team, he has not done so in several years with several good opportunities to do so.

The suggestion was that, as a matter of policy, Pegula is no longer OK-ing this type of thing.
In your mind, or those minds at your other sports site, assessed this for the Bills? How much of the massive dead cap Beane carried 2 years ago actually resulted in making released players whole for unpaid guaranteed signing and related bonuses? (it would be the analog to your Sabres view above) I honestly don't know.

Should we measure defensemen's fragility in Bogo's yet similar to the Brad Brown speed scale?
Fragility and/or performance delusions. Another option is to rename all youth sports league participation trophies "Bogos", akin to "Emmys", "Oscars", "Cleos", Tonys", etc.

The owners should lock out until guaranteed contracts are eliminated.
Made sense in the 1970s when players were making 25 grand with no free agency, but makes no sense at all today.
Agreed.

**** the owners. They give out these deals, they have to live with them. Tough ****.
NHLPA may not be opposed to re-jiggering it, though. The net result is a bi-modal salary structure. The total sum money to the players wouldn't necessarily change.

I could see some compromise as a reduction in either pro or NHL years or games played to free agency, with an analogous reduction in the age at which the current 35+ year contract rule is in place, and/or ability to buy-out pro-rated contract years above a certain age.
 
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SackTastic

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Mar 25, 2011
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I disagree with the complete removal of guaranteed contracts. The NFL shows you what happens without; the top echelon of players get the huge guaranteed signing bonus deals, and everyone else gets peanuts.

I do think that the NHL and PA can find ways to allow more ways to structure deals that allows teams some additional flexibilities, but still lets the players earn their share of the pie.
 

La Cosa Nostra

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If they keep guaranteed contracts remove the hard cap and go to a luxury tax.

Too bad we didn't have a Pegula type owner from 96-04...our payroll would have been larger then the Red Wings was back then.

Is Bogos deal going to be terminated? That 5.1 mil in cap looks enticing. I mean with how shit Bogo was the 1.05 mil in cap is already a win.

edit- Is a certain word not bleeped anymore? :lol:
 
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explore

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The owners should lock out until guaranteed contracts are eliminated.
Made sense in the 1970s when players were making 25 grand with no free agency, but makes no sense at all today.

There's a zero percent chance players are going to give up guaranteed contracts. Heck, I think the NFL will eventually start moving there after Kirk Cousins' deal. The player's unions are there to work in the player's best interest, guaranteed contracts are in the best interests of all players. Anything threatening that will lead to a long lockout and when the league resumes, guaranteed contracts will still be there for the NHL. The NHL might have mostly American teams and owners, but it's a Canadian sport and league.

If they keep guaranteed contracts remove the hard cap and go to a luxury tax.

Too bad we didn't have a Pegula type owner from 96-04...our payroll would have been larger then the Red Wings was back then.

Is Bogos deal going to be terminated? That 5.1 mil in cap looks enticing. I mean with how shit Bogo was the 1.05 mil in cap is already a win.

edit- Is a certain word not bleeped anymore? :lol:

The one sport the NHL shouldn't be emulating is the MLB. That luxury tax will turn some teams into nothing more than farm teams for the better-funded franchises. It'll lead to a less entertaining product and less parity. It would be accomplishing exactly the opposite of the NHL's stated goals of increasing the parity of the league.

The NHL is a healthy league, and what they're doing is working. When teams like Arizona can not only not move, but find a good owner in the NHL and field a competitive roster after what they went through, then the NHL's strategy is working, and shouldn't be messed with.
 
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La Cosa Nostra

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There's a zero percent chance players are going to give up guaranteed contracts. Heck, I think the NFL will eventually start moving there after Kirk Cousins' deal. The player's unions are there to work in the player's best interest, guaranteed contracts are in the best interests of all players. Anything threatening that will lead to a long lockout and when the league resumes, guaranteed contracts will still be there for the NHL. The NHL might have mostly American teams and owners, but it's a Canadian sport and league.



The one sport the NHL shouldn't be emulating is the MLB. That luxury tax will turn some teams into nothing more than farm teams for the better-funded franchises. It'll lead to a less entertaining product and less parity. It would be accomplishing exactly the opposite of the NHL's stated goals of increasing the parity of the league.

The NHL is a healthy league, and what they're doing is working. When teams like Arizona can not only not move, but find a good owner in the NHL and field a competitive roster after what they went through, then the NHL's strategy is working, and shouldn't be messed with.

Why do we give a shit about teams like the Coyotes? We have an owner who is deep pocketed and will spend whatever necessary. The NBA is also a league that has a luxury tax to go with its soft cap and the NBA is the fastest growing league in terms of revenue. If the NHL right now allowed teams to spend up to say 25% above a salary cap with luxury tax with the luxury $ being distributed among the 5-10 poorer teams that would help if anything.

Saying that allowing teams to spend as much as they want would hurt parity must have forgotten the Rangers of the DPE. Lets not act like parity has been 100% achieved the last few years or that we haven't seen teams (like your example the Coyotes) acquire contracts of guys merely to reach the floor. Something like a floor of $70 mil, a soft cap of $100 mil and a max of $125 mil with that extra 25 mil being taxed @ 50% would help the poor teams even more. Teams like the Rangers, Lightning, Blackhawks, Bruins, Leafs, Habs, Sabres etc all paying ~10-12.5 mil a piece to be given to the 10 lowest earning teams would allow said poor teams to be more competitive, especially if the luxury tax money they would get only be given if its directly used on increasing their payroll.

I mainly just want the league to adopt a CBA that will allow us to fully utilize Pegula buck$. And also to not be hamstrung because of 1-2 bad contracts. Kyle Okposo earns 8.22% of the entire cap all by himself. And with a cap that has been stagnant for the last few years barely raising at all, having 1/12 of our cap allocated to a 4th liner with no way out for another 3 more years sucks. If not a luxury tax, then allow buy outs that don't affect the cap as harshly as it does currently.
 

BuffaloKatanas

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I'm not sure if this works out, but any chance Bogo agreed to this for this week so Botts has cap room to make trades, then recalls Bogo after the deadline to play the rest of the season?
 

Dirty Dog

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I'm not sure if this works out, but any chance Bogo agreed to this for this week so Botts has cap room to make trades, then recalls Bogo after the deadline to play the rest of the season?

I don’t think it would be smart to circumvent the cap by conspiring with the player who is disgruntled and wants out
 

hizzoner

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The problem is not guaranteed contracts. The problem is the length of time they are guaranteed. Limit the term of the guarantee with an option for either team or player to get the remaining term if conditions are met. There would be something there for both team and PA. Something to ponder.
 
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Jim Bob

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The problem is not guaranteed contracts. The problem is the length of time they are guaranteed. Limit the term of the guarantee with an option for either team or player to get the remaining term if conditions are met. There would be something there for both team and PA. Something to ponder.

There is no chance that the NHLPA goes for a change like that.
 
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hizzoner

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There is no chance that the NHLPA goes for a change like that.
Certainly would not be their first choice. But in negotiations there is give and take. There are players who deeply regret selling themselves long term cheaply. As well the PA is always looking for more revenue/perks. If there are negotiations then this could be on the table. Maybe there will be no request from NHL or nhlpa for changes to present agreement but I suspect that will not be the case.
 
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Royisgone

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Mar 7, 2012
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Why do we give a shit about teams like the Coyotes? We have an owner who is deep pocketed and will spend whatever necessary. The NBA is also a league that has a luxury tax to go with its soft cap and the NBA is the fastest growing league in terms of revenue. If the NHL right now allowed teams to spend up to say 25% above a salary cap with luxury tax with the luxury $ being distributed among the 5-10 poorer teams that would help if anything.

Saying that allowing teams to spend as much as they want would hurt parity must have forgotten the Rangers of the DPE. Lets not act like parity has been 100% achieved the last few years or that we haven't seen teams (like your example the Coyotes) acquire contracts of guys merely to reach the floor. Something like a floor of $70 mil, a soft cap of $100 mil and a max of $125 mil with that extra 25 mil being taxed @ 50% would help the poor teams even more. Teams like the Rangers, Lightning, Blackhawks, Bruins, Leafs, Habs, Sabres etc all paying ~10-12.5 mil a piece to be given to the 10 lowest earning teams would allow said poor teams to be more competitive, especially if the luxury tax money they would get only be given if its directly used on increasing their payroll.

I mainly just want the league to adopt a CBA that will allow us to fully utilize Pegula buck$. And also to not be hamstrung because of 1-2 bad contracts. Kyle Okposo earns 8.22% of the entire cap all by himself. And with a cap that has been stagnant for the last few years barely raising at all, having 1/12 of our cap allocated to a 4th liner with no way out for another 3 more years sucks. If not a luxury tax, then allow buy outs that don't affect the cap as harshly as it does currently.

I would be overjoyed if the NHL could somehow get to the place where the NFL is, without fully guaranteed Ks for the players.

It would change the game IMO and we would have really benefitted from this in the last couple of years.
 

old kummelweck

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I would be overjoyed if the NHL could somehow get to the place where the NFL is, without fully guaranteed Ks for the players.

It would change the game IMO and we would have really benefitted from this in the last couple of years.
I don't. NFL has the worst union in sports. Those guys get screwed. I'd rather just have baseball.
 

brian_griffin

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I'm not sure if this works out, but any chance Bogo agreed to this for this week so Botts has cap room to make trades, then recalls Bogo after the deadline to play the rest of the season?
Not clear to me a player released from his NHL contract is allowed to re-sign with the team who held his immediately prior SPC.

That seems like an instant investigation for cap circumvention.
If not outright prohibited already.

There is no chance that the NHLPA goes for a change like that.
I can think of numerous possibilities which could move the needle away from "no chance":
1. Larger % share of revenues for players.
2. Change in UFA eligibility in player's favor.
3. CTE research and treatment trust fund.

Certainly would not be their first choice. But in negotiations there is give and take. There are players who deeply regret selling themselves long term cheaply. As well the PA is always looking for more revenue/perks. If there are negotiations then this could be on the table. Maybe there will be no request from NHL or nhlpa for changes to present agreement but I suspect that will not be the case.
Exactly.
I don't. NFL has the worst union in sports. Those guys get screwed. I'd rather just have baseball.
NHL needs to be cautious given lack of TV revenue. Pretty sure 100% of NFL player salaries is covered by TV revenue. Ticket sales are gravy on top of that in terms of total revenue. And there is the absolute least semblance of parity in MLB vs. NFL and NHL.
 

kenfury

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Feb 5, 2011
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The owners should lock out until guaranteed contracts are eliminated.
Made sense in the 1970s when players were making 25 grand with no free agency, but makes no sense at all today.

Do you want to see the players on a hard strike and build a picket line? Because thats a very hard no "over my dead union" stand. The union will die on that hill.
 
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jd1970

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Do you want to see the players on a hard strike and build a picket line? Because thats a very hard no "over my dead union" stand. The union will die on that hill.
I suppose that's true.
I had sympathy for the players in the 1970s. All they had were the guaranteed contracts. I always got the impression Gilbert Perreault would have liked to have eventually played elsewhere (Montreal), but he was owned.
I have no sympathy whatsoever for today's players.
 

Chainshot

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I suppose the team is trying to hold out hope of flipping him for something at this point. I can't understand why they have dragged their feet on going to termination and just letting him move on with his career.
 

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