Chytilmania
Registered User
- Dec 31, 2017
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I think that and the Zibanejad contract will be two huge moves for Drury that can make or break Cup runs. Which D does he pick to ship off and what does he get in return.
Player Discussion Zac Jones
- Thread starter OrlandK
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New York RKY
Let's Go Rangers!
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
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With the way the league still, despite Fox going Norris, looks at D-Men and size, I think this season, next off season, Schneider or Miller would get more of a return than Jones or Nils. I'm not saying this as a reflection on who is currently, or will eventually BE, better. I'm talking about value to other teams. The NYR have an abundance of both types of young players (Fox, Nils, Jones & Miller, Robertson, Schneider) but I think one of the big D would have a better chance of returning a higher quality asset. JMO, and I'm not putting any of these players down.
Totally agree. Especially about Miller. In fact, the way Jones has looked, I wouldn't mind seeing Jones up for those 5 games, give him a chance to steal the job from Miller.
Miller has potential, but he frustrates me to no end. And he plays too soft for his size.
egelband
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- Sep 6, 2008
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I agree but also feel like big defensemen simply need more time and patience. And I think the reward will be great. At least that’s what I think the Rangers are thinking and I don’t have any reason to disagree. So while I think we probably profit from Jones over Miller, in the long term we don’t hurt Jones sending him down for a bit and we potentially get a big payoff tolerating Miller’s ups and downs for a bit longer. Not really saying I have a huge opinion on it. Just that it’s what I imagine the Rangers are saying internally.
Zach now has 13 points in 18 games. 4 over his last 2 games I think. In terms of +/-, he is a -1, for whatever that stat is actually worth.
Just in comparison Schneider has 7 points in 18 games but is a +10.
Reunanen has 8 points in 16 games and is a +8.
So, I don't always know how to gauge the actual significance of +/- or how heavily it should be weighed. But usually, I look at it as a secondary statistic, with a bit less importance than other stats. And it as a stat is conditional on numerous variables that can alter its actual significance.
But more than anything, I think it is time for Lundkvist to get some time in Hartford and for one of these 3 players to be given a shot with the big club.
Preferably, I would pick Jones. I think he's producing offensively, -1 isn't great but again, not sure how much +/- should be weighed against other stats and how interpretive it is of actual overall play on the ice. But there might be a case for either Reunanen or Schneider to get that time instead.
As far as Reunanen, I think this might be a good opportunity to showcase him to other teams. I don't think he really has a long term future with the Rangers and he's already 23 years old. We are going to have to trade AT LEAST 2 but possibly even 3 of Reunanen, Schneider, Lundkvist, Jones, Miller and Robertson sooner or later. Possibly more sooner than later. And Reunanen probably has the least likelihood and carries the least hype I think of all these young D. So he'd be the first guy I would consider shopping. And ultimately, as far as trade is concerned, maybe even shipping Reunanen AND one of the other D prospects, for a young high ceiling center or whatever. So this may be a good opportunity to see what we have in him or what other teams might want.
Schneider, while I think can contribute defensively, I think his offense is still behind Jones, Miller, Reunanen and Lundkvist. And he's still relatively young. And I think Jones just looked more mature on the ice to me in preseason at least. While I think Schneider ultimately DOES have a future with the Rangers, and an important one, possibly replacing Trouba eventually when his NMC or his contract is up, he also needs more time in the A than at least 4 of our other young D. So he would be the last one I would bring up.
Just my thoughts. And Jones really, really, at such a young age, looks like a huge asset IMO. But while he might be ready, I am sure more time in the AHL will still benefit him. That, along with the possibility of showcasing Reunanen are the main reasons I might consider bringing up Reunanen instead of Jones right now.
And frankly, Lundkvist I think could really, really use the time in Hartford. For that matter, I think Miller could possibly use some time there as well. But since I don't really know how Reunanen or Jones or Schneider or Robertson would perform yet, I can't suggest definitely sending Miller to Hartford for a bit. So until we know more about those others, he still has a prime spot with the Rangers. I just worry, I think Trouba has gotten much better this season and transitioned a bit to more physical defender than 2 way guy. But on the same note, while Miller has had slight improvement, I don't think it's enough to make his spot definite.
But anyway, Jones or Reunanen for Lundkvist. I think it's time.
Just in comparison Schneider has 7 points in 18 games but is a +10.
Reunanen has 8 points in 16 games and is a +8.
So, I don't always know how to gauge the actual significance of +/- or how heavily it should be weighed. But usually, I look at it as a secondary statistic, with a bit less importance than other stats. And it as a stat is conditional on numerous variables that can alter its actual significance.
But more than anything, I think it is time for Lundkvist to get some time in Hartford and for one of these 3 players to be given a shot with the big club.
Preferably, I would pick Jones. I think he's producing offensively, -1 isn't great but again, not sure how much +/- should be weighed against other stats and how interpretive it is of actual overall play on the ice. But there might be a case for either Reunanen or Schneider to get that time instead.
As far as Reunanen, I think this might be a good opportunity to showcase him to other teams. I don't think he really has a long term future with the Rangers and he's already 23 years old. We are going to have to trade AT LEAST 2 but possibly even 3 of Reunanen, Schneider, Lundkvist, Jones, Miller and Robertson sooner or later. Possibly more sooner than later. And Reunanen probably has the least likelihood and carries the least hype I think of all these young D. So he'd be the first guy I would consider shopping. And ultimately, as far as trade is concerned, maybe even shipping Reunanen AND one of the other D prospects, for a young high ceiling center or whatever. So this may be a good opportunity to see what we have in him or what other teams might want.
Schneider, while I think can contribute defensively, I think his offense is still behind Jones, Miller, Reunanen and Lundkvist. And he's still relatively young. And I think Jones just looked more mature on the ice to me in preseason at least. While I think Schneider ultimately DOES have a future with the Rangers, and an important one, possibly replacing Trouba eventually when his NMC or his contract is up, he also needs more time in the A than at least 4 of our other young D. So he would be the last one I would bring up.
Just my thoughts. And Jones really, really, at such a young age, looks like a huge asset IMO. But while he might be ready, I am sure more time in the AHL will still benefit him. That, along with the possibility of showcasing Reunanen are the main reasons I might consider bringing up Reunanen instead of Jones right now.
And frankly, Lundkvist I think could really, really use the time in Hartford. For that matter, I think Miller could possibly use some time there as well. But since I don't really know how Reunanen or Jones or Schneider or Robertson would perform yet, I can't suggest definitely sending Miller to Hartford for a bit. So until we know more about those others, he still has a prime spot with the Rangers. I just worry, I think Trouba has gotten much better this season and transitioned a bit to more physical defender than 2 way guy. But on the same note, while Miller has had slight improvement, I don't think it's enough to make his spot definite.
But anyway, Jones or Reunanen for Lundkvist. I think it's time.
will1066
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2008
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Miller has played himself out of the Hartford conversation, imo.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
Yeah... I don't think he'd get much out of a stint down there @ this point.
Nils should go down for a bit. Who we bring up is another conversation. I don't get to see Hartford games so I won't say anything, aside from I thought Jones easily could be up already.
TominNC
Registered User
Why mess with a 13-4-3 team? This isn't a tryout camp. Miller is playing well and shows glimpses of what could be. Obviously the coaches are ok with Lundkvist's play. Why mess around "just because".
You think he's played THAT well and THAT consistently? Even after the last 2 weeks, I am just not sold on him yet. He's playing a bit less "soft" than previously. But he's still not really contributing offensively and his defense, at least IMO, is inconsistent and his decision making, at times questionable. The only 2 Rangers D with worse +/- are Nemeth and Tinordi. And only Miller and Lundkvist are even at zero.
Trouba, Fox, Lindgren all +5 or better. And I don't put a huge amount of stock in +/-. But it's a bit more significant when it can be gauged directly against other players on the same team.
He still only has 3 points on the season. He's doing a bit better in blocking shots. And he's playing a bit more physical than say last season, but still not AS physical as I think he's capable of with his size and speed.
But yea, basically, it would require one of the other guys to PROVE they can perform better before replacing him. But the only way to do that is to give them some NHL time. SO if say, Reunanen or Jones came up for Lundkvist and played well, IF they played better than Miller, I would consider moving Miller down the depth chart and putting one of them in his place. AND from there, I would then consider giving one of the other two, whomever didn't get the call yet out of Jones, Reunanen, Schneider, some time to see how they perform. And again, if they also performed better, then I would consider sending Miller to Hartford for a bit. But I can see why it's not prudent to make such a move immediately.
But I still think we should at least start by sending Nils down and giving one of those 3 a shot.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
The idea to start the season was to give Jones, Schneider and Robertson a ton of time and let them cook.
Jones and Schneider could realistically be playing in the NHL today, but the Rangers preference was to leave them in Hartford for now --- with December being a possible timeframe for a call-up.
Right now, with the NHL squad more or less rolling, they'll probably lean toward keeping them in Hartford.
Jones and Schneider could realistically be playing in the NHL today, but the Rangers preference was to leave them in Hartford for now --- with December being a possible timeframe for a call-up.
Right now, with the NHL squad more or less rolling, they'll probably lean toward keeping them in Hartford.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
BTW, next to no one with the club or around the league is having the same conversations about Miller as this segment of the fanbase.
So that ain't coming up on the horizon by even the most creative stretch of the imagination.
So that ain't coming up on the horizon by even the most creative stretch of the imagination.
It's not a "just because". Lundkvist isn't doing anything really. And being sent to the press box now so he's not even really getting the ice time he really looks like he needs. This coaching staff was also ok with sending Kravtsov down for whatever reason, so I can't exactly agree that whatever they think is always the correct choice.
As far as "Miller is playing well" I think that is debatable. Miller is playing, at best, "ok" and at worst, mediocre.
Now in terms of Nils vs. say Jones, Jones is playing fantastic in Hartford. Jones arguably outplayed many other players on the roster in preseason. I would even argue he looked better, all around than Nils, despite Nils getting the accolades.
Yes, the team has a nice record over a relatively short stretch of games. And I think even if the team makes the playoffs, they aren't capable or ready to actually contend for a Cup. So the goal is, or I think should be, constant improvement. Just because the team's record is good for now, doesn't mean the team couldn't be better. I don't think Tinordi or Nemeth have been all that good either. But I do not think the recent success has to do much with Lundkvist . And I would rather give some time to the young guys like Jones, Lundkvist or Reumanen than just sticking with either Nemeth or Tinordi or both, who I don't think have been all that great either. But Nemeth at least, is with this team for the long haul.
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
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Miller should never go back to the AHL unless he breaks a leg and needs a conditioning stint
Not only has he been at least our 3rd best defenseman, his game is better suited for the NHL.
Not only has he been at least our 3rd best defenseman, his game is better suited for the NHL.
TominNC
Registered User
Being sent to the press box now? He just played against the "big bad" Bruins. He's doing ok. He's learning.
Miller is light years better than last season. His future now looks more like an offensive defenseman than a shutdown guy.
PuckLuck3043
Stairway To Heaven
You want to bring up Reunanen to showcase him? This is not "lets make a deal". The Rangers are in playoff position and will only bring up players that they feel will help the team and nothing else. If they do bring up anybody it's going to be Jones. Other teams can see plenty of Reunanen in Hartford.
the main issue we’re going to face with Nils is they just won’t be able to put him in a position here to truly showcase his talents or where he would have the biggest impact on the game.
Say he hits his ceiling, he’s not taking PP duties from Fox. He’s not taking top 4 minutes from Trouba. Schneider will eventually, but Trouba is playing well and not going anywhere for at least another 2 seasons after this, maybe more.
When that occurs, it will likely be Schneider that steps into Trouba’s role. I just don’t see where nils fits on this team after this season....
As many have said. Jones- Schneider could have played 3rd pair this season to start.
It is a luxury we had Nemeth-Lundkvist this season to give them heavy minutes in Hartford.
As edge said, I think that was the original plan, but giving them 1 more year of heavy minutes in the A would help both of them.
We know that for at least 2-3 years probably longer that these guys aren’t going anywhere....
Lindgren-Fox ( you don’t break up a 24 yr old proven 1st pair with a Norris winner)
miller-Trouba ( org loves miller. He’s making tremendous strides. Trouba playing well and helping miller along. Contractually and importance wise, trouba not going anywhere.)
Jones-Schneider ( Jones is playing beyond everyone’s expectations. His growth since college seems to be above and beyond. Schneider is the heir apparent to Trouba eventually. A guy that is big tough hits like a truck and has untapped offense. We have no other D man with a package like that in our system. He’s not going anywhere. Fits the mandate of being tougher to play against)
that leaves Nemeth/Lundkvist. Nemeth is a short timer here. Lundkvist is blocked mostly by Fox of where he’d be deployed, and likely play a similar style to Jones/Fox/and miller.
It’s beyond obvious to me, he’s the guy most likely to be traded.
What’s going to be interesting to see is what the rangers do with Robertson 2 years down the line. Will he be traded? Or an eventual replacement for Lindgren if he prices himself out on the blue line???
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Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Um, strawman. Not JUST to showcase him, but because he's playing fairly well in Hartford and we should see what we have in him. As I said, I would prefer bringing up Jones, but I could see giving Reunanen a chance first.
Ranger fans are getting a bit ahead of themselves with this playoff thing. It's only December 1st. And if you think we can keep this up all season, with RW top 9 depth of Kakko, Hunt and Gauthier, and D depth of Nemeth, Tinordi, Lundkvist and Miller, then you are more optimistic than me, by many miles. Even if we make the playoffs, I do not at all think we are ready to contend for a Cup. Plus, if we are ready to contend for a Cup, then making a small change like sending Lundkvist down and giving Jones or Reunanen a chance, shouldn't all of a sudden derail that. But we aren't so it's fairly irrelevant.
Lundkvist is not really contributing much and I wholly think he could do with time at Hartford. Reunanen is playing well enough to see what he can do in the NHL. Both for us, possibly for other teams in terms of showcasing and for the player to see where he's at and if he can take another step. It's a multivariate reasoning.
Again, Jones might be outscoring Reunanen. But I am not wholly sure if Jones' entire game is ready. Reunanen is 23 and looks at about the stage where he should get a chance at higher competition.
But again, I would be ok with either one replacing Lundkvist on the roster for the time being. Can always bring Lundkvist back up if he starts shredding in Hartford.
Shesterkybomb
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- Dec 30, 2016
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Why are people complaining about Miller? He's way ahead of where he should be at this point.
