Player Discussion Zac Jones

[brakeyawself]

Look we’re not putting together a video game team here either. The Rangers targeted Nemeth (and that story broke a few days before free agency) for a reason. Jones is a more skilled player than Nemeth sure. So what? Nemeth has a track record and size. Jones doesn’t have either of those things. Fox runs the power play. Norris Trophy winner at 23–you play that guy as much as you can. If there’s a second smaller D it’s most likely Lundkvist but he’s getting the power play leftovers.

Not quite sure that's how it would play out if Lundqvist and Jones progress rapidly to their potential. The only reason to keep Lundqvist around in that case would be to get the lions share of PP time because Fox is so good all over the place while Lundqvist, at least until proving otherwise, is mainly offensive.

 

[jay from jersey]

Not quite sure that's how it would play out if Lundqvist and Jones progress rapidly to their potential. The only reason to keep Lundqvist around in that case would be to get the lions share of PP time because Fox is so good all over the place while Lundqvist, at least until proving otherwise, is mainly offensive.

I don’t think I would want nils running the PP as much as I would like him to just be a part of it. It’s most likely doubtful he’s a better passer/ distributer of the puck then fox. Fox’s no look passes are amazing and he does a good job of keeping the puck in the zone.
I would want nils in a more trigger man type of position so when fox or whoever draws a man to him, he can set up nils for that big heavy accurate shot.
The problem is, Zibby currently operates that spot on the PP and I don’t see him leaving it anytime soon either. I’m sure nils will get 2 PP time, but just like other teams, the first PP gets the lions share of the minutes and zone set up time.
It’s sucks because we are not really able to make the most out of one of, if not nils biggest attributes as much as possible.
Even know Jones plays the Left side, he’s going to run into similar problems.
That’s why I’m 99% sure 1 of them is going to be traded. It could be both depending on how Schneider’s offensive develops over the next year and a half/ 2 years. Same for miller

 

[eco's bones]

I don’t think I would want nils running the PP as much as I would like him to just be a part of it. It’s most likely doubtful he’s a better passer/ distributer of the puck then fox. Fox’s no look passes are amazing and he does a good job of keeping the puck in the zone.
I would want nils in a more trigger man type of position so when fox or whoever draws a man to him, he can set up nils for that big heavy accurate shot.
The problem is, Zibby currently operates that spot on the PP and I don’t see him leaving it anytime soon either. I’m sure nils will get 2 PP time, but just like other teams, the first PP gets the lions share of the minutes and zone set up time.
It’s sucks because we are not really able to make the most out of one of, if not nils biggest attributes as much as possible.
Even know Jones plays the Left side, he’s going to run into similar problems.
That’s why I’m 99% sure 1 of them is going to be traded. It could be both depending on how Schneider’s offensive develops over the next year and a half/ 2 years. Same for miller

Bingo—except for Miller. I don’t think the Rangers are interested in moving him anytime soon.

 

[aufheben]

You guys are really overthinking this.

 

[jay from jersey]

You guys are really overthinking this.

just like Buchnevich, I’m preparing for the inevitable. I’m not going to be surprised or stunned when it happens because realistically/ logically it makes to much sense when all factors are included. My guess is the longest we stay with this current stable of guys is 1 full year. Maybe even less. But at a full year at the most
There’s going to be a move as sure as I’m sitting here by next camp.
Whose going and what we’re getting back is up for debate, but I’ve said it like 10 times, if nils Lundkvist is going to be a permanent fixture on the D for the foreseeable future, it’s going to be on the left side. Otherwise imo, he’s the most likely target to be traded.
Lindgren-Fox
Lundkvist-Trouba
That’s really the only way I see where we can take full advantage of nils skills and keep him on the ice for top 4 minutes. That’s what you want from your impact players. I have no doubt he’ll do well on 3rd pairRD this season. I highly doubt its too hard for him this season with the responsibility of a 3rd pair D. I’m guessing next year he makes the switch or is getting dealt.
A majority of ppl here thought there’s no way we would trade Buch, at least this season. But it was also inevitable. We are going to run into the same problems next season. Guys need ice time but not enough spots. The situation is the same, even though the players and contract status is different.

 

[jay from jersey]

Bingo—except for Miller. I don’t think the Rangers are interested in moving him anytime soon.

I agree, I meant they are really interested to see how Schneider and miller’s offense develops, I should have worded it better

 

[eco's bones]

I agree, I meant they are really interested to see how Schneider and miller’s offense develops, I should have worded it better

They both should develop good two way games.

 

[chosen]

100% I would have preferred Smith staying as well.

And we don't even really know yet if Nils will be ready, so if they did make the addition with that in mind, I think it was a bit premature perhaps. I really think what would help this team the most, on defense is if Trouba could reinvent himself as more of a defensive and physical force, someone who could pair with Jones or Miller and provide the solid defensive and veteran presence they need.
That would move the needle way more than Trouba still trying to be as offensive when we are loaded with young offensive D talent. With his size and athleticism, I don't see why he couldn't do that.

And then Miller and Jones could duke it out for now to see who should pair with him. Meanwhile, Nemeth theoretically would fit with Lundqvist, provided he's ready and it would be a more balanced Defense. Really need Miller to use his size and athleticism to be more physical. He uses his length well, with his stick, but he relies on it way more than he should.

I still think this could be our D by the midway point of the season---

Lindgren - Fox
Jones - Trouba
Miller - Lundqvist

Or maybe swap the 2nd and 3rd pairs, either way. But it would require Trouba to play off Jones or Miller. Or would require Miller using his size and defensive ability to play off Lundqvist. But if either or both of Miller and Trouba focused a bit more on using their size and athleticism to play a more defensive game, it could really open things up for our highly skilled young D men and I think improve our overall play. I've seen people suggest Trouba can't do that for whatever reason, but I disagree. And seen similar suggestions about Miller. But I don't buy those arguments. They can still use their offensive ability, it just wouldn't be the main focus of their role on the ice. Both guys have the necessary attributes to pull it off. At that point it just becomes a matter of willingness, focus and hard work. And if Miller really did improve in this sense, in physicality and defense, there's no reason he couldn't move ahead of Lindgren to pair with Fox, which might actually be the long term ideal. So for now, something like:

Miller - Fox
Lindgren - Lundqvist
Jones - Trouba

Or again, can swap 2nd and 3rd pairs. Could even just play 2nd and 3rd pairs a bit more even in minutes, while first pair gets the lions share. Obviously this all would be dependent upon Jones and Lundqvist proving themselves ready and Miller and Trouba make those slight alterations to their game. But if Schneider ends up being everything we think he can be, he'd be a perfect partner for Jones. And would make it difficult for Lundqvist to get the minutes he will probably eventually require.

I still would be happy with moving Lundqvist for a young center. I keep thinking Turcotte, Vilardi or Kupari just because of how stacked Kings are down the middle. Or Perfetti or PLD because of how deep the Jets are with Scheifle, PLD and now Perfetti and Lucius in the franchise. All though, if Lucius ends up on the wing, I guess they'd want to keep Perfetti. No way to know if PLD will stay their long term. I do wonder what it would take with Lundqvist to get PLD. Maybe a 1st ? But whatever, just daydreaming.

I assume Lundqvist will be a better D than Miller. If he turns out to not be, he has been way overhyped. Would rather move Miller for a Center.

 

[egelband]

Look we’re not putting together a video game team here either. The Rangers targeted Nemeth (and that story broke a few days before free agency) for a reason. Jones is a more skilled player than Nemeth sure. So what? Nemeth has a track record and size. Jones doesn’t have either of those things. Fox runs the power play. Norris Trophy winner at 23–you play that guy as much as you can. If there’s a second smaller D it’s most likely Lundkvist but he’s getting the power play leftovers.

This is true but I think @OrlandK makes a good point. The extra 500k here and 1m there adds up. But as you say, if Drury has a specific interest in Nemeth, that’s fine too. Same as Kreider. We can afford one or two overpays. But don’t make it a trend.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Reading some of this, it still feels like July of a regular calendar year.

 

[eco's bones]

This is true but I think @OrlandK makes a good point. The extra 500k here and 1m there adds up. But as you say, if Drury has a specific interest in Nemeth, that’s fine too. Same as Kreider. We can afford one or two overpays. But don’t make it a trend.

I would expect Nemeth to be very movable if the need arises. Teams look for guys like him come playoff time. No—he’s not super exciting like Jones but in grind it out playoff series 230 lb. defensemen with playoff experience who play within their limitations can be very handy. Jones is not going to get a load of power play time with the Rangers and IMO it wouldn’t hurt him to get some AHL time.

I think the Rangers plan on making the playoffs this year. Nemeth more likely to help the Rangers get there than Jones.

 

[OrlandK]

I would expect Nemeth to be very movable if the need arises. Teams look for guys like him come playoff time. .

True but that is what the Avs thought when acquiring Nemeth (for a 4th rounder) this past season. They were unhappy with the result. And that seemed like a perfect landing spot for someone with Patrick's skill set. Doubt it it will be easy the next time to move him.

 

[Slurpeelover27]

I don’t think I would want nils running the PP as much as I would like him to just be a part of it. It’s most likely doubtful he’s a better passer/ distributer of the puck then fox. Fox’s no look passes are amazing and he does a good job of keeping the puck in the zone.
I would want nils in a more trigger man type of position so when fox or whoever draws a man to him, he can set up nils for that big heavy accurate shot.
The problem is, Zibby currently operates that spot on the PP and I don’t see him leaving it anytime soon either. I’m sure nils will get 2 PP time, but just like other teams, the first PP gets the lions share of the minutes and zone set up time.
It’s sucks because we are not really able to make the most out of one of, if not nils biggest attributes as much as possible.
Even know Jones plays the Left side, he’s going to run into similar problems.
That’s why I’m 99% sure 1 of them is going to be traded. It could be both depending on how Schneider’s offensive develops over the next year and a half/ 2 years. Same for miller

Why wouldn't you want Nils running the top pp? He has the shot for sure (Fox's only weakness is that his shot is just ok) and if you watch tape it appears Nils can pass similarly to Fox. Fox is easily the all around best dman on the team so wouldn't you want him playing more minutes at 5 on 5 and the PK? If Nils can play top pp then that frees Fox to do just that. Of course this won't happen right away, but I don't see it taking too long. This might also help save some $$ on Fox's contract as his point totals should not be as gaudy. Kid will be a stud. Don't understand at all why anyone would want to trade him while he is just getting started and just signed his 3 year ELC. Unless you get an amazing return that would be incredibly foolish. Having 3 strong dmen on the right side is a problem?

 

[jay from jersey]

Why wouldn't you want Nils running the top pp? He has the shot for sure (Fox's only weakness is that his shot is just ok) and if you watch tape it appears Nils can pass similarly to Fox. Fox is easily the all around best dman on the team so wouldn't you want him playing more minutes at 5 on 5 and the PK? If Nils can play top pp then that frees Fox to do just that. Of course this won't happen right away, but I don't see it taking too long. This might also help save some $$ on Fox's contract as his point totals should not be as gaudy. Kid will be a stud. Don't understand at all why anyone would want to trade him while he is just getting started and just signed his 3 year ELC. Unless you get an amazing return that would be incredibly foolish. Having 3 strong dmen on the right side is a problem?

I think if nils becomes similar to fox, you want him to get more minutes. Not just stuck playing 3rd pair for too long. That’s why I think if his future is with NYR it’s on the left. You want to have good diversity among your pairs. Hopefully one guy is better at some things then the other and the can each make up for their partners weakness/strengths. I get you would want to keep Fox fresh, but what he did last season was nothing short of remarkable. I don’t think nils is a better puck distributer then Fox, I’m def not ready to hand that position over. Nils also played on a bigger ice surface where the game was a bit slower.
Scoring goals and generating chances is so so important. Fox was 2nd in points from the D position. You do not move that off the PP because of potential. Yes Fox is a good PKer, but if you can limit his time there is does a myriad of things. It keeps him fresh, it avoids his body taking unnecessary hits, blocking shots, etc. why take the injury risk when he’s the most important piece on the team, and top 5 in the league at generating offense from the blue line especially on the PP. if nils turns out as good as advertised, great. Shift him to the left so he can play more minutes in bigger situations.
It’s a fantasy to think NYR would take minutes away from their Norris winning 23 year old D just to accommodate minutes for nils on the PP. it’s not a realistic situation.
They only way nils is going to play 1PP is if there’s an injury to Fox, or if nils takes someone’s else’s spot above the circle so he can rip one timers. Currently the ideal spot for him being a righty is where Zibby currently lines up. It’s pretty obvious they aren’t going to move him either.
For the rangers to take Full advantage of Lundkvist s skill set after this season, they need to start giving him top 4 minutes and easing him into different situations. If he can do that, while playing solid D, playing the PK, and generating some offense from the back end, he’s done his job.
And your right, his shot is one of, it not his best attribute. So I’d want to put him into a position where he can use it as much as possible. I know he’s a good all around D, but if he manages to get on the top pp somehow, it won’t be at the expense of fox and he’ll likely be put in a trigger mans position where he can rip the puck off the pass

 

[Fitzy]

I think if nils becomes similar to fox, you want him to get more minutes. Not just stuck playing 3rd pair for too long. That’s why I think if his future is with NYR it’s on the left. You want to have good diversity among your pairs. Hopefully one guys is better at some things then the other and the can each make up for their partners weakness/strengths. I get you would want to keep Fox fresh, but what he did last season was nothing short of remarkable. I don’t think nils is a better pick distributer then Fox, I’m def not ready to hand that position over. Nils also played on a bigger ice surface where the game was a bit slower.
Scoring goals and generating chances is so so important. Fox was 2nd in points from the D position. You do not move that off the PP because of potential. Yes Fox is a good PKer, but if you can limit his time there is does a myriad of things. It keeps him fresh, it avoids his body taking unnecessary hits, blocking shots, etc. why take the injury risk when he’s the most important piece on the team, and top 5 in the league at generating offense from the blue line especially on the PP.

NHL Stats

If we remove special teams from the equation, our defensive minutes seem to have a well defined top 4, then the third pairing. The year before NHL Stats We had a clear 1st pairing (18 min) 2nd pairing (16 min) and 3rd pairing (15 min)

I think if Nils gets off to a tremendous start, you start to see him grabbing some extra strength minutes from Miller and Lindgren on the left, especially in offensive zone situations when we are trailing in the game.

Even if he isn't 'penciled in' the top 4, I do see him getting minutes at a level appropriate for his level of play, whatever that turns out to be,

 

[jay from jersey]

NHL Stats

If we remove special teams from the equation, our defensive minutes seem to have a well defined top 4, then the third pairing. The year before NHL Stats We had a clear 1st pairing (18 min) 2nd pairing (16 min) and 3rd pairing (15 min)

I think if Nils gets off to a tremendous start, you start to see him grabbing some extra strength minutes from Miller and Lindgren on the left, especially in offensive zone situations when we are trailing in the game.

Even if he isn't 'penciled in' the top 4, I do see him getting minutes at a level appropriate for his level of play, whatever that turns out to be,

I can absolutely see that. A lot is going to also depend on how much miller’s offensive game has improved from last season. I could see Nils being the extra man when we pull the goalie as well, just to have that heavy accurate shot on the ice.
That’s the main reason why I think after this year, if nils is future is with the rangers, it will be on the left side with increased minutes making Miller or lindgren the trade asset.
More then likely miller though. Lindgren has a good contract and great chemistry with Fox. I don’t think NYR is in any hurry to break up a legit 1st pair NHL D that plays a ton in every situation. Well. Even if miller has the higher ceiling.
He would also bring back a very valuable piece as part of a trade package.
Like I’ve been saying, this year he’s fine where he’s at. Next year is where things could get ugly. Especially if Schneider/Jones/ Robertson are ready to make the jump to the NHL

 

[eco's bones]

True but that is what the Avs thought when acquiring Nemeth (for a 4th rounder) this past season. They were unhappy with the result. And that seemed like a perfect landing spot for someone with Patrick's skill set. Doubt it it will be easy the next time to move him.

Are you talking about the Av’s coaches and management or their fans in general? It seems to me the wheels fell off their bus when Kadri got suspended and their secondary scoring disappeared altogether after that happened.

 

[brakeyawself]

I don’t think I would want nils running the PP as much as I would like him to just be a part of it. It’s most likely doubtful he’s a better passer/ distributer of the puck then fox. Fox’s no look passes are amazing and he does a good job of keeping the puck in the zone.
I would want nils in a more trigger man type of position so when fox or whoever draws a man to him, he can set up nils for that big heavy accurate shot.
The problem is, Zibby currently operates that spot on the PP and I don’t see him leaving it anytime soon either. I’m sure nils will get 2 PP time, but just like other teams, the first PP gets the lions share of the minutes and zone set up time.
It’s sucks because we are not really able to make the most out of one of, if not nils biggest attributes as much as possible.
Even know Jones plays the Left side, he’s going to run into similar problems.
That’s why I’m 99% sure 1 of them is going to be traded. It could be both depending on how Schneider’s offensive develops over the next year and a half/ 2 years. Same for miller

But that IS supposed to be what Nils is best at no? Isn't that what all the hype and constant proclamation that he's "untouchable" is about? That his offensive and PP ceiling is through the roof. As good as Fox is, Fox was never supposed to be this good. So if you doubt Lundqvist could be better than Fox at this, then I ask, what exactly is the need for Lundqvist and what makes him "untouchable"? Not that you specifically said he was "unctouchable", I just mean in general, that seems to be the opinion. And that people are so excited for him to achieve "greatness". Well how could he possibly achieve anything if he's being blocked by Fox? And if Nils does reach his ceiling, it seems as though it would be higher than Fox offensively. Not saying that's going to happen in the next 2 years, but that is the ultimate expectation with Lundqvist and why he's so "valued".

I can't say what Gallant will do. But IF, and this is all speculative, but IF Lundqvist is everything he's supposed to be, I don't see why Gallant wouldn't want to take advantage of that by giving him a whole chunk of PP time. And if he's ultimately relegated forever to PP2, just because we are paying Fox a lot of money, then what is the point of keeping Lunqvist around? IF Lundqvist is what he's supposed to be, I see no reason he couldn't replace Zibby or Fox on the PP1. And again, Fox is SO good at 5x5, SO good on the PK, that he would be better used in those situations when possible. Which he arguably is, so good at those other aspects of the game. Also, if you remember back to the first half of last season, Fox did not look so good on the PP. There were many people that thought he should be moved off the PP. Now a lot of that changed in the second half of the season. But I don't think we can say that Fox will forever be our PP1 RD nor should he necessarily if someone else proves worthy. If he moved down to PP2, and then played more 5x5 and PK, this team would be ultimately better for it in the long run. Vegas got Pietrangelo and did exactly that because they have Theodore. Without Theodore, Pietrangelo would probably still be getting the majority of the PP1 minutes, which he is completely capable of excelling at. Same with Nurse in Edmonton. He doesn't get the lions share of PP time yet he's arguably their best offensive Dman and puts up ridiculous points for a D in 5x5 and even strength. But instead they use Barrie, who's not quite a PP specialist but close to it, as the PP1 guy. Allowing Nurse to get extended minutes in all variety of other situations. Same for Heiskanen in Dalls where Klingberg is the PP1 guy. Tampa Bay splits their PP more evenly, so Sergachev on PP2 and Hedman on PP1 get more equivalent PP minutes. In Boston McAvoy is the PP2 guy while Grzelnyk gets the majority of PP1 minutes. The reason these teams do this is because even if that star Dman is as good or better than their PP1 option, they are also better in all other situations where they are more valuable.

Now I do agree that one of Lundqvist or Jones will be traded. Or even two of Lundqvist, Jones, Robertson or Miller. No clue which it will be, but for the above reasons I do lean towards Lundqvist.

Jones, is a bit different than Lundqvist, aside from being a natural LD. He's supposed to be very good defensively and he's most usually compared directly to Fox. In many ways he's supposed to be the LD version of Fox, and probably the best skater out of any of our Dmen. His skating is supposed to be THAT ridiculously good. In which case, he might end up being the perfect guy to have on PP1 to move the puck up ice. Which I think would pair well on a PP1 with either Fox or Lundqvist. It wouldn't at all be strange to see two defenders on a top PP if they are both so good at various offensive things.

But there is every possibility Lundqvist is ultimately a superior offensive player to Fox, as good as Fox is. Lundqvist IS supposed to be THAT good. That's just the reality of the situation and the entire high value placed on Lundqvist. And if he's NOT better than Fox, that's even more reason to trade him. However good Schneider will be at offense, offense isn't why people are so excited by him. It's his defense and physical play. So even if he ultimately is not better at offense than Lundqvist, which he probably won't be, he's still more likely to eventually take over that 2RD slot. And yea, if Lundqvist also reaches his potential, I can't see him being content with being a 3rd pair D AND a PP2 guy. The only way he would realistically want to stay, and really, the only reason we would have to keep him, is if he was better than Fox on the PP or at least good enough to replace Fox on the PP. Because he'd still likely be the 3RD, not getting a whole lot of minutes without being the primary PP1 RD. Even if that means shifting Zibby off that role. And I am not sure Zibby is even sticking around long term, so I don't think things will ultimately depend on Zibby at least.

For me, Miller is the guy we ultimately will need the least at LD. Having Lindgren, Jones and eventually Robertson. And Lundqvist is the guy who we will probably need the least at RD, having Fox and Trouba now and eventually Schneider. In reality, it's likely we only keep 2 of Lundqvist, Jones, Miller, Robertson and Lindgren. Unless Lindgren is ok with being a 3rd pair guy, in which case maybe he'd eventually take that role. But otherwise, those 5 guys are going to all be competing for 2 LD spots. With Fox obviously staying as our top RD and most likely Schneider moving into 2RD. I guess a chance that Lundqvist ends up 2RD and Schneider gets moved to LD also. But either way, those 5 guys are competing, long term, for 2 spots. Because we really won't be able to keep high value 3rd pair Dmen long term. They will demand more minutes and higher salaries as they progress. And if they ALL progress, that's not going to work keeping them as 3rd pair unless 1 or 2 of them are SO good on the PP they become 3rd pair PP specialists. But I still doubt we would be able to afford to pay for that in the long run.

Jones on the other hand is a natural LD and touted as being the BEST skater out of all our Dmen. His skating is supposed to be something close to mystifying. Which to me, along with his offensive potential, which is huge, would make for the perfect transition weapon on the PP and possibly elsewhere. There's no reason we couldn't roll out a PP1 with Jones AND Fox or Jones AND Lundqvist. Not necessarily this year, I just mean some time in the future. A lot of people love Robertson, and I agree he has the look of a very good player. But I think he's more a Lindgren replacement or a 3rd pair defensive guy ultimately. If we chose to replace Lindgren at some point that is.

 

[SA16]

Fox had the second most 5v4 points among dmen and we already want to remove him from PP1 for a player with zero NHL games?

 

[brakeyawself]

delete

 

[brakeyawself]

Fox had the second most 5v4 points among dmen and we already want to remove him from PP1 for a player with zero NHL games?

I guess you don't understand what "IF" means? Or "speculative"? Or just the general (a) would have to happen for (b) to happen? This is all predicated on things turning out in specific ways.

But YES. If those things do turn out the way many think, I absolutely think he could be removed from the PP1 long term. As I think I showed, MANY teams do so with their top Dmen, regardless of how good they are on the PP. And there is good reason to do it.

It would require at least close to equal production or superior production from those that would theoretically replace him though. Which, I think is key...... And it's all because Fox is just so good at all aspects of being a defender. And being a defender, defense is more important than offense. Which is why guys like Fox, Hedman, Heiskanen, Werensky, Jones etc.. are more valuable and better NHL defenseman than guys like Quinn Hughes and Makar, no matter how many points those guys produce. And why it's ridiculous that some people assert Q. Hughes and Makar are all ready top 10 defenseman in the NHL. They are not. But Fox certainly is, because he's that good at all aspects of being a defender. Which means he can be used in whatever way best supports the teams success. Like the leagues best defenders usually do. I don't care if he broke the record for PP points by a defender. It wouldn't change any of this. Again, Nurse is a better player all around than Barrie, he's a better offensive Dman too. Yet Barrie gets the most PP time because Nurse is being used in all other situations. Still scoring 36 points with only 7 coming on the PP. That's only 11 less than Fox, and 12 less than Barrie, who both got about half their points on the PP. Hedman still manages to get huge totals even with less PP time because they have Sergachev. Which is why Hedman is bar-none the best defenseman in the league. Pietrangelo sacrificed his PP game because Vegas has Theodore. Same for Heiskanen because of Kingberg. Same for McAvoy because of Grzelnyk even though I think McAvoy is the better offensive player ultimately. And there are many more examples of this throughout the NHL.

 

[Slurpeelover27]

Nils also played on a bigger ice surface where the game was a bit slower.

This could also be a reason why point totals are lower in Sweden and the KHL (usually although I understand rink sizes are now closer to NHL). As things will be faster and more goals are scored in the NHL this should mean an increase in points for better players, like Nils. IF Nils can translate his skills to the NHL then I see no reason why he cannot be as good or even better than Fox is on the pp. As I said of course you would not hand this to him right away and I am sure he will need some time to adjust and he is so young so lots of time to improve and develop, but the eye test shows he has the skills to POTENTIALLY become one of the best pp dmen in the NHL. Chances are he does not, but I see him as having a very good chance of being a better offensive dman than Fox. Fox is excellent at offense, but I would not say he is elite mainly due to just having a decent shot.

When Cale Makar was first drafted I was quite sure he would become one of the best offensive dmen ever and he is that and more. Nils does not have that upside, but I think he can definitely become a 20 plus goals 60 plus points a year dman. Some years even scoring 70 plus points.

 

[jay from jersey]

This could also be a reason why point totals are lower in Sweden and the KHL (usually although I understand rink sizes are now closer to NHL). As things will be faster and more goals are scored in the NHL this should mean an increase in points for better players, like Nils. IF Nils can translate his skills to the NHL then I see no reason why he cannot be as good or even better than Fox is on the pp. As I said of course you would not hand this to him right away and I am sure he will need some time to adjust and he is so young so lots of time to improve and develop, but the eye test shows he has the skills to POTENTIALLY become one of the best pp dmen in the NHL. Chances are he does not, but I see him as having a very good chance of being a better offensive dman than Fox. Fox is excellent at offense, but I would not say he is elite mainly due to just having a decent shot.

When Cale Makar was first drafted I was quite sure he would become one of the best offensive dmen ever and he is that and more. Nils does not have that upside, but I think he can definitely become a 20 plus goals 60 plus points a year dman. Some years even scoring 70 plus points.

I get that nils has massive potential. But it’s not just offense at the NHL that’s different. It’s everything. Not saying the game is totally different but some aspects are. It remains to be seen how’s he’ll perform when the rink is smaller so to speak. Also, the physicality isn’t really comparable. The talent is also better. It’s how a guy like kakko can go from being a stand out to needing more time. I honestly don’t know if nils has 70 pt potential. But I do know that he’s not really going to receive on the job training, or walk in to an opportunity where they’ll even really give him a shot.
Fox is absolutely elite offensively, his shot may be his weakest link, his on ice awareness is uncanny, his vision, passing, and misdirection are incredible. He’s like an artist with a paint brush back there. His positioning and ability to keep the puck in the zone, and read where the play is going next is also elite. He may not possess the same god given physical talent that Makar has, but he’s so cerebral that you can see he thinks the game better then almost anyone else on the ice. Almost like he has a view from the press box. To even be nominated for Norris in his 2nd year is remarkable.
He’s an incredibly well rounded player. Even without the big shot, which is not really in his game anyway, he’s absolutely elite offensively and I doubt they are ever going to take him off the first PP, because nils might be as good offensively some day. It doesn’t really work like that. Lundkvist is going to have to scratch and claw and over come someone to make it on 1PP duty, but no way is it coming at the expense of fox or his time. Especially after he signs his new deal. Not realistic

 

[SA16]

Shots from defenseman on the bad PP are bad so it’s really not a big deal if Fox has a weak shot. You’re better off having a dman with a bad shot who knows he has a bad shot so he tries to set up the scorer than someone who shoots with reckless abandon

 

[jay from jersey]

Shots from defenseman on the bad PP are bad so it’s really not a big deal if Fox has a weak shot. You’re better off having a dman with a bad shot who knows he has a bad shot so he tries to set up the scorer than someone who shoots with reckless abandon

Really. Some of the takes of him not being elite, or another guy should run the PP cause he has potential are fantasy. It doesn’t work like that. Zibby has an elite shot, doesn’t mean I want him running the point on the PP. there’s a time and a play to utilize every weapon. And currently I see know reason why they would move fox off the point in favor of Lundkvist to keep fox fresh for 5v5 and PK. That’s silly.
ADA might have the capability to run the PP as well as fox. That didn’t go very well for him. The fact is fox is only 23 and trending up. He took the duties from the best pure offensive D we’ve had in years.
Lundkvists scouting reports have all been as a top 4 D who plays a solid 2-way game. He’s offense has really come along in the last 2 years but nowhere to I see him being better the fox at anything having to do with the PP, besides his shot.