Value of: Yzerplan put 18.1 million to Holl, Gostisbehere, Reimer, Compher, Sprong and Kostin

[Siludin]

Plan is to fill team with plugs for short periods, some of them will surprise with improvement, most will be gone in 2-3 years and will be replaced with guys like Mazur, Kasper, Edvinsson, Danielson, ASP, Cossa. Red Wings have 2 first round picks in 2024. Proper rebuild should be 10 years, Red Wings on their 7years of rebuild. Don't worry guys 2-3 more years and then we will see who is laughing

This is actually the right take. You don't want to throw young players to the wolves, and this gives them depth in key positions while those players jump into the league on ELCs. It also reduces the amount of gifted ice time you would otherwise provide to guys like Edvinsson, so they don't as easily hit performance metrics that would see them get huge raises in second contracts.
Nic Hague is an example of someone who a lot of fans of rebuilding teams might have hypothetically thrown into a top-4 role, and at this stage would have already had making $5.5m off some middling 29 point third season.
Taking a restrained approach in developing players by signing veterans that they must share ice time with/surpass is actually good cap management, especially if those veterans come in on relatively short deals.

 

[Tetsuo]

This is actually the right take. You don't want to throw young players to the wolves, and this gives them depth in key positions while those players jump into the league on ELCs. It also reduces the amount of gifted ice time you would otherwise provide to guys like Edvinsson, so they don't as easily hit performance metrics that would see them get huge raises in second contracts.
Nic Hague is an example of someone who a lot of fans of rebuilding teams might have hypothetically thrown into a top-4 role, and at this stage would have already had making $5.5m off some middling 29 point third season.
Taking a restrained approach in developing players by signing veterans that they must share ice time with/surpass is actually good cap management, especially if those veterans come in on relatively short deals.

Pretty much how I see it. We're a deeper, better team and we're not just going to give minutes to young guys out of the gate based on sheer necessity. Want to see what happens when you play a talented player in a tough situation: take a look at Filip Zadina. He was thrown onto one of the worst rosters in league history and he's career has never really gotten off the ground since. You have to let the young guys play their way onto the roster when their ready. Very few of them are Mo Seider or Lucas Raymond types who are so talented/stable they can handle the rigors of the NHL right out of the gate. Doesn't hurt that they had already been playing pro hockey for years before taking the NHL ice.

 

[TS Quint]

Compher, Holl, Perron, Ghotshisbehere, Copp, Kostin, Chiarot all signed as FA's in the past two windows. All over paid and multi year.

Then they don't even give a young guy with skill like Yamamoto a shot but rather waste cap space buying him out and waive a former 6th overall who is still young.

Give them minutes to see if there's something there and if they really suck, good. You're rebuilding, you want to suck

Ghost is a one year contract. The Wings need to give crappy players like Yamamoto and Zadina a chance but not Kostin ?Completely unloading a team of talent is not a sure fire way to make a winner im sure you can make a longer list of failures than succeses. I’m not really sure you have a point. You seem like youre trying too hard to find something.

These contracts aren’t bad. or long. Next year 6 of them will be UFAs so no one is holding a spot if a prospect becomes ready. That’s also 6 guys you think make the Wings too good that they can flip for picks at the deadline.

In 2 season time this current 23 man roster will be down to 6 players and zero cap problems between now and then. You’re worried about the length? and cap space? For what? Someone has to play.

 

[HFpapi]

Ghost is a one year contract. The Wings need to give crappy players like Yamamoto and Zadina a chance but not Kostin ?Completely unloading a team of talent is not a sure fire way to make a winner im sure you can make a longer list of failures than succeses. I’m not really sure you have a point. You seem like youre trying too hard to find something.

These contracts aren’t bad. or long. Next year 6 of them will be UFAs so no one is holding a spot if a prospect becomes ready. That’s also 6 guys you think make the Wings too good that they can flip for picks at the deadline.

In 2 season time this current 23 man roster will be down to 6 players and zero cap problems between now and then. You’re worried about the length? and cap space? For what? Someone has to play.

I don't have to look hard to find a point.

They are 5 years into a rebuild and don't look like they are anywhere close to coming out of the wilderness.

Their core looks very bad. Seider is a legit foundational franchise piece and beyond that only question marks and guys who will be good top 6'ers/top 4 Dmen but nothing to write home about.

You can actually argue their core got worse since a lot of shine around Raymond wore off after his rookie year compared to last year. He was the only "franchise" forward they had but maybe now looks more like a great 2nd line winger.

I'm not worried about length of contract or cap space I'm wondering why Detroit is playing themselves out of the basement to try and fight for 9th in the East.

A few years ago their contemporaries were Buffalo, Ottawa, NJD. They've been left in dust by all 3 and now surpassed by teams who started rebuilding later (Ducks, CLB, Chicago).

 

[SENStastic]

Plan is to fill team with plugs for short periods, some of them will surprise with improvement, most will be gone in 2-3 years and will be replaced with guys like Mazur, Kasper, Edvinsson, Danielson, ASP, Cossa. Red Wings have 2 first round picks in 2024. Proper rebuild should be 10 years, Red Wings on their 7years of rebuild. Don't worry guys 2-3 more years and then we will see who is laughing

Jesus 10 years? Lol thats brutal if you think thats what it should take to compete again.

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

It's not even about them being "crippling" moves or anything I just think they are truly puzzling moves that don't indicate any direction or conviction in a course of action.

I don't think Steve has a single clue what kind of team he's trying to build right now or what direction he wants to go. I genuinely think he's just winging it now and signing what he can for the sake of it.

Like are they trying to bottom out and draft top 5? Do they want to be a wild card team? These moves put them smack dab in the middle of those options and are probably moves that prevent them from being either. They are just perfectly mediocre with no discernible core.

Why would a team in Detroit's position pay to get rid of a 24 year old Yamamoto with a 20 goal season under his belt when they could have just given him top 6 minutes and see what happens?

Why didn't they give a roster spot to a 24 year old former 6th overall pick with at least a modicum of potential rather than signing random free agents with zero potential to eat those minutes?

Puzzling because we dont have all the information like the majority of this league. How did boston trade 1st and lose bertuzzi after dumping hall.

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

Jesus 10 years? Lol thats brutal if you think thats what it should take to compete again.

Competing and building a program are two different things. Canucks and calgary try to compete every year and they are laughing stocks. May work may not but rather have this outlook than what senile ken was doing signing absolute plebs like neilson.

 

[Henkka]

That’s some bad GMing right there.

More of good.

G James Reimer
Estimation 1.592M, 1-year
Contract 1.5M, 1-year
----------
Difference: -92k

G Alex Lyon
Estimation 1.319M, 2-years
Contract 900k, 2-years
---------
Difference -419k

RD Gustav Lindström
Estimation 875k, 1-year
Contract 950k, 1-year
---------
Difference +75k

RD Justin Holl
Estimation 3.509M, 3-years
Contract 3.4M, 3-years
---------
Difference -109k

LD Shayne Gostisbehere
Estimation 3.863M, 1-year
Contract 4.125M, 1-year
---------
Difference +262k

W Daniel Sprong
Estimation 2.119M, 1-year
Contract 2.0M, 1-year
---------
Difference -119k

C Joseph Taylor Compher
Estimation 5.533M, 5-years
Contract 5.1M, 5-years
---------
Difference -433k

RW Christian Fischer
Estimation 1.269M, 1-year
Contract 1.125M, 1-year
---------
Difference -144k


Total estimations: 20.079M (all estimations from evolving-hockey)
Total contracts: 19.100M
-------------------
Difference: -979k

 

[HFpapi]

Puzzling because we dont have all the information like the majority of this league. How did boston trade 1st and lose bertuzzi after dumping hall.

What information would I need for a 25 million dollar contract to JT Compher to make sense?

I guess if Holl had Yzermans family held hostage somewhere that is the kind of hidden information that would shed some light on what the **** Stevie was thinking when he signed that deal.

 

[Drytoast]

Isn't it amazing how much harder it is to be a pro GM when you don't work in a no tax sunshine state where every damn player wants to play for cheaper?

 

[SENStastic]

Competing and building a program are two different things. Canucks and calgary try to compete every year and they are laughing stocks. May work may not but rather have this outlook than what senile ken was doing signing absolute plebs like neilson.

That is why they both need to go on an actual rebuild and not muck around continuously adding fringe talent in hopes they remain a playoff bubble team. Everyone knows Calgary is overdue but ownership seems to be set against it. Similar issue with the Sens early 2010s under Melnyk when it was obvious we needed it. Detroit on the other hand has been tanking on an actual proper rebuild for a while now. That still doesnt mean if a team is getting torn down, then you should expect people to wait a decade before they come out of it lol. Thats crazy.

 

[Golden_Jet]

More of good.

G James Reimer
Estimation 1.592M, 1-year
Contract 1.5M, 1-year
----------
Difference: -92k

G Alex Lyon
Estimation 1.319M, 2-years
Contract 900k, 2-years
---------
Difference -419k

RD Gustav Lindström
Estimation 875k, 1-year
Contract 950k, 1-year
---------
Difference +75k

RD Justin Holl
Estimation 3.509M, 3-years
Contract 3.4M, 3-years
---------
Difference -109k

LD Shayne Gostisbehere
Estimation 3.863M, 1-year
Contract 4.125M, 1-year
---------
Difference +262k

W Daniel Sprong
Estimation 2.119M, 1-year
Contract 2.0M, 1-year
---------
Difference -119k

C Joseph Taylor Compher
Estimation 5.533M, 5-years
Contract 5.1M, 5-years
---------
Difference -433k

RW Christian Fischer
Estimation 1.269M, 1-year
Contract 1.125M, 1-year
---------
Difference -144k


Total estimations: 20.079M (all estimations from evolving-hockey)
Total contracts: 19.100M
-------------------
Difference: -979k

Lol if SY uses that as his bible.

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

What information would I need for a 25 million dollar contract to JT Compher to make sense?

I guess if Holl had Yzermans family held hostage somewhere that is the kind of hidden information that would shed some light on what the **** Stevie was thinking when he signed that deal.

Probably had offers from teams at 4.5 atleast.... bad team paying 600k more and Probably offering 5th year. Like i said before not fan of compher signing or holl but to say either is gonna hinder us from anything is laughable especially since we werent even close to the salary floor on july 1st.

We been doing the 2 year deals here and there for guys like pius suter but as the team gets better we need more consistency. Holl at 3.3 when ur highest paid d man is still under 5 mill isnt as bad as it looks. Only sieder and Raymond are in line for new deals the rest of kids arent even here just the ones that show they belong are with the squad.

Perron expiring, kubalik expiring. All i think is hes rotating in and out guys and probably has way better idea of how their cap management is going to be then people on hf boards.

Prior to july 1 we had 8 forwards with guaranteed spots, 4 d men and 1 goalie.

Last i checked u need atleast 12 forwards 6 d men and 2 goalies. With the absolute dogwater free agents available which ones would hf boards be approving of lol. Carson soucy? Klingberg? Hahahaaha yeah real game changers. Im sure we would be competing for a cup with max domi and tarsenko .... yeah nope. Our core guys arent even all here yet and we are just putting guys in postions who do the minimum and compete and telling our prospects (kasper/ed) you just gotta show enough to beat out these guys on none albatross deals... if kasper can play 80 games next year compher and copp will not be standing in the way.

If we signed kevin hayes type to a 7x7 then yes the thread would make sense.

 

[Fuonki]

For me at least it looks like Detroit got some bad luck with the draft lottery and so far haven't been able to compensate that with excellent (or lucky) drafting like for exampe Colorado did, and now patience just seems to be running low, or they really value their young forwards a lot more than we do.

Rebuilds are just so much about luck that it's hard to blame Detroit for still being so bad, but why not just embrace it? Yes definitely sign a couple veterans to keep some sort of a competitive culture around, but why do you need so many of them, and for so many years too? Without the core talent to build around on you're still only left praying for lottery luck at the end of the season, but with diminished odds

 

[lilidk]

Jesus 10 years? Lol thats brutal if you think thats what it should take to compete again.

Because Yzerman trade away Bertuzzi and Hronek and he went drafting lite on offense it might take even longer, 1or 2 extra years

 

[lilidk]

Jesus 10 years? Lol thats brutal if you think thats what it should take to compete again.

Because Yzerman trade away Bertuzzi and Hronek and he went draft lite on offense it might take even longer, 1or 2 extra years

 

[HFpapi]

Probably had offers from teams at 4.5 atleast.... bad team paying 600k more and Probably offering 5th year. Like i said before not fan of compher signing or holl but to say either is gonna hinder us from anything is laughable especially since we werent even close to the salary floor on july 1st.

We been doing the 2 year deals here and there for guys like pius suter but as the team gets better we need more consistency. Holl at 3.3 when ur highest paid d man is still under 5 mill isnt as bad as it looks. Only sieder and Raymond are in line for new deals the rest of kids arent even here just the ones that show they belong are with the squad.

Perron expiring, kubalik expiring. All i think is hes rotating in and out guys and probably has way better idea of how their cap management is going to be then people on hf boards.

Prior to july 1 we had 8 forwards with guaranteed spots, 4 d men and 1 goalie.

Last i checked u need atleast 12 forwards 6 d men and 2 goalies. With the absolute dogwater free agents available which ones would hf boards be approving of lol. Carson soucy? Klingberg? Hahahaaha yeah real game changers. Im sure we would be competing for a cup with max domi and tarsenko .... yeah nope. Our core guys arent even all here yet and we are just putting guys in postions who do the minimum and compete and telling our prospects (kasper/ed) you just gotta show enough to beat out these guys on none albatross deals... if kasper can play 80 games next year compher and copp will not be standing in the way.

If we signed kevin hayes type to a 7x7 then yes the thread would make sense.

I have no ill-will towards Detroit, I'm not trying to be a hater. I respect them for being the cream of the crop and the NHL's model franchise for 2 decades and as a result we all knew a fall was coming.

That all said, I just genuinely don't see any positive movement for them and see them being lost in the wilderness for a long time coming after already being out of the playoffs for 7 years.

I don't think they have the foundational pieces to ice a sustainably competitive team in the coming years. How much of that we can lay at the feet of Yzerman, idk, but his moves have me scratching my head lately.

One of the most active teams in FA the last few years signing random riff raff to sizable deals seemingly chasing a wild card spot when they need to be bottoming out and not thinking that the core is in place because it's not.

 

[Pantokrator]

I am totally on board the Yzerplan. I wish the Flyers had a GM who would do this. Yzerman is patient. His plan is to be good for a decade, not try to make the playoffs and see what happens and hope for the best.

The only thing that will hold them back is the fact they never were able to win the lottery and get a superstar.

But they are set, cap-wise for years. Say a player comes available in free agency (Draisaitl, Matthews, Marner for example) they can pounce on them.

 

[chethejet]

Wings were OK last year. But they are not a team on the rise with outstanding near generational talent. There are few teams who get the opportunity to draft generational talent and then build from there. Mario with the Pens and Sid and Geno as well. Hawks had Kane and the center but not quite as good as Geno and Sid. Av's come close but not sure that is sustainable as to being a favorite for a cup for 15 years. Oilers just seem to miss each year with McDavid but he is incredibly good. I like some of the wings moves but they are not a 15 year run for the cup roster. Very hard to rebuild from the bottom up with a draft that is up and down every year. See if the Hawks can do it again with Bedard.

 

[TS Quint]

I don't have to look hard to find a point.

They are 5 years into a rebuild and don't look like they are anywhere close to coming out of the wilderness.

Their core looks very bad. Seider is a legit foundational franchise piece and beyond that only question marks and guys who will be good top 6'ers/top 4 Dmen but nothing to write home about.

You can actually argue their core got worse since a lot of shine around Raymond wore off after his rookie year compared to last year. He was the only "franchise" forward they had but maybe now looks more like a great 2nd line winger.

I'm not worried about length of contract or cap space I'm wondering why Detroit is playing themselves out of the basement to try and fight for 9th in the East.

A few years ago their contemporaries were Buffalo, Ottawa, NJD. They've been left in dust by all 3 and now surpassed by teams who started rebuilding later (Ducks, CLB, Chicago).

Yzermans first draft was 2019…..Your expectation is that a team of 22 and under prospects should be leading this team to a Cup?

Youre crazy if you think Compher and Holl are leading this team to 9th place.

How do you see the East shaking out 1-16?

 

[Hotep Numminen]

sprong is scoring 30+ this year

 

[Shaman464]

More of good.

G James Reimer
Estimation 1.592M, 1-year
Contract 1.5M, 1-year
----------
Difference: -92k

G Alex Lyon
Estimation 1.319M, 2-years
Contract 900k, 2-years
---------
Difference -419k

RD Gustav Lindström
Estimation 875k, 1-year
Contract 950k, 1-year
---------
Difference +75k

RD Justin Holl
Estimation 3.509M, 3-years
Contract 3.4M, 3-years
---------
Difference -109k

LD Shayne Gostisbehere
Estimation 3.863M, 1-year
Contract 4.125M, 1-year
---------
Difference +262k

W Daniel Sprong
Estimation 2.119M, 1-year
Contract 2.0M, 1-year
---------
Difference -119k

C Joseph Taylor Compher
Estimation 5.533M, 5-years
Contract 5.1M, 5-years
---------
Difference -433k

RW Christian Fischer
Estimation 1.269M, 1-year
Contract 1.125M, 1-year
---------
Difference -144k


Total estimations: 20.079M (all estimations from evolving-hockey)
Total contracts: 19.100M
-------------------
Difference: -979k

Those estimates lack all context. Compher had a career season playing in a cushy spot as a third line center on one of the deepest teams in the NHL. No way he's worth 5.5 million if he played last season in Detroit. Same goes for Holl, who everyone agrees isn't worth 3 million and 3 years after how embarrassing he was when he played as a 2nd pairing D man.

sprong is scoring 30+ this year

He's pretty terrible at golf if he's 30 strokes over par.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I don't think they have the foundational pieces to ice a sustainably competitive team in the coming years.

You’re basically saying the vast majority of their prospects will be mildly disappointing and few if any will exceed expectations.
Possible, but very pessimistic and usually not how things pan out when you have such a deep and promising stable of U23 talent.

 

[name]

Lol if SY uses that as his bible.

What did you support your assertion with? Nothing at all as far as I can tell.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Part of me gets it but at the same time it's a weird way to build a roster. I think people underestimate how bad Holland left Detroit and the only saving grace was a young Dylan Larkin.