Value of: Yzerplan put 18.1 million to Holl, Gostisbehere, Reimer, Compher, Sprong and Kostin

[saska sault]

Can you actually find me 1 person who said Detroit was done rebuilding last year? Yzerman has never said that.

Yzerman has preached patience last year along with Lalonde and that will likely be the same this year. Signing free agents weren't ever to make the playoffs, it was to star to give the kids a fighting chance and obviously start to improve. The same for this year, the rebuild started in 2019 in reality with how we needed to clean the garbage and contracts.. the entire organization from top to bottom has preached making little improvements year by year and building towards the playoffs.. sure we have missed the playoffs longer then Yzerman's tenure but the years prior we basically were still hanging on to the hope of playoffs with Holland. Most Wings fan understand the process and most fans around the league. It isn't a draft for 3 to 4 years and start trading assets and handing out monster contracts type of rebuild.

 

[QJL]

In my opinion, this is an outstanding use of 18.1M to fill out the depth on your roster.

The Red Wings will live or die by their young players. This is a correct rebuild.

 

[lomekian]

Each team rebuild is unique. What prospects are you starting with, what do you have on your roster that you can liquidate for rebuilding assets, how easy is it to dismantle the current roster to then get better draft picks, how rich are the draft classes when you are within the rebuild. It makes comparisons to other team rebuilds not easy.

I think Detroit probably had a lot of factors going against it, which is why this is going to be a longer rebuild than some others.

Of course, some rebuilds fail and you have to restart it (e.g., Buffalo).

Hard to say at this point how well this all will pan out for Detroit but I would defer to level-headed Detroit fans to make that assessment.

Simply just too early to say. All hinges on recent and next years draft picks, and what's possible in the next couple of FA markets. Tax rates and team mediocrity are a disadvantage pursuing FAs, but there will be enough cap space to pursue some quality players if they make it to FA.

The uncertainty you suggest is pretty much inherent in the lack of top 5 sure fire draft picks.

 

[newfy]

Rebuilds. Sabres have had quite a few in that span. whether they work out or not is not relevant to the conversation. Detroit according to their GM is STILL rebuilding somehow.

Gifted is a stretch. Did you know we never won the lottery and moved up? Eichel was 2nd to McDavid we lost that lottery. You passed on Hughes to draft Zadina. Yzerman screwed up and is trying to cover his butt.

God this is embarrassing. How about the Sabres make the playoffs or do something even slightly relevant in the NHL with their multiple 1st and 2nd overall picks, during the longest playoff drought in the league before you start acting like theyre some example worth following.

The wings highest pick, at 4th overall, only debuted 2 years ago. But yeah youre right, the rebuild should be completely over already....

 

[lomekian]

Well this is disingenuous. Who replaces Bertuzzi? Who replaces Hronek?

Hronek a valid point. Bert was a total non factor this past season with his injuries. The hope I suppose is that Ghost can be almost the same as Hronek output wise.

 

[lomekian]

Neutral fan, how many years do you give the GM? He started with a mess that would extend any reasonable timeline by 2 years. Is he year 4 now? When should hard questions be asked? Curious...

Its case by case.

What did they inherit?
What % of trades made have been beneficial?
How has the drafting been?
Are there other factors and if so how do they effect things?

Yzerman obviously started with huge credit in the bank - returning hero + job done at Tampa. He inherited an astonishing shit show in terms of roster quality and prospect pool. Normally tanking teams have more assets to sell and a bit more in the pipeline.

So far he's won most trades he's made, has stocked the pipeline well (still missing that ELITE forward prospect), and has slowly improved the team to a position of respectability.

Right now he's immune to pressure, but if the picks from the last 3 drafts don't show the kind of progress hoped for, the chair will start to get warm over the next 3 years. Basically, he should be safe in post for the duration of the Holl deal regardless unless things go very badly wrong from here.

YOu think he paid Holl 3.4 x 3 to be 6th in icetime? I doubt it.

Why?

 

[HFpapi]

The number of times I've seen Red Wings fans invoke the name "Jake Walman" as a counter argument to their defense being weak tells me all I need to know.

A fine defenseman no doubt, underrated I'm sure, but a 27 year old with 30 career points better be prime Larry Robinson on D to be dropping his name in the context that you are.

Especially with Raymond having a big sophomore slump last season, this foundation is looking very mediocre given how long they've been out of the playoffs.

The random patchwork of over-paid veterans does nothing more than push you a little higher up in the standings and away from better draft picks. This rebuild seems to really be stalled and ad-hoc but Detroit fans are seemingly in denial about it.

 

[HFpapi]

Sprong and Kostin are solid 5v5 producers. Great pickups. Same with Ghost on a 1 year deal.

The Compher deal is absurd.

But these are things you say about teams that are already good and looking to build out depth.

Why would a rebuilding team that needs to bottom out keep signing 4-5 free agents each off season trying to inch their way over the goal line into a wild card spot?

 

[StreetHawk]

Neutral fan, how many years do you give the GM? He started with a mess that would extend any reasonable timeline by 2 years. Is he year 4 now? When should hard questions be asked? Curious...

Yzerman has been in charge since 2019 draft, so the last 4 seasons he's been the GM with 5 drafts under his belt, though, not sure if he got any of his desired scouts into the organization for the 2019 draft. Given the lack of players drafted from like 2014-2018 who are contributing to the team, who would be between 23-27 from those draft classes, he probably needed to change over some of the scouts.

You are only as good a GM as your scouting department's ability to find NHL talent. GM isn't the one scouting the guys who will go after round 1.

Yzerman had some level of talent when he arrived, just not in terms of college aged kids or younger. He moved on from Mantha, and decided Hronek and Bertuzzi were also not going to be part of the team. Opted to keep Larkin. Waiting on making those moves, thus pushed those returns down the line, but again, if he had to change over his scouts, then that's a better call than using draft capital with a scouting staff that hasn't done a great job in the prior 5-6 drafts before you arrived.

But, he does need to find a top talent somewhere along the line.

 

[TCNorthstars]

The number of times I've seen Red Wings fans invoke the name "Jake Walman" as a counter argument to their defense being weak tells me all I need to know.

A fine defenseman no doubt, underrated I'm sure, but a 27 year old with 30 career points better be prime Larry Robinson on D to be dropping his name in the context that you are.

Especially with Raymond having a big sophomore slump last season, this foundation is looking very mediocre given how long they've been out of the playoffs.

The random patchwork of over-paid veterans does nothing more than push you a little higher up in the standings and away from better draft picks. This rebuild seems to really be stalled and ad-hoc but Detroit fans are seemingly in denial about it.

They have gotten better every year since Yzerman took over. Why do you consider this stalled?

 

[RedHawkDown]

If he trades for either DBC or Nylander, these signings make a lot more sense.

 

[Ezekial]

YOu think he paid Holl 3.4 x 3 to be 6th in icetime? I doubt it.

Ghost plays RD and got paid more than him. Chiarot rode the 3rd line after being shit for half the season.

 

[Shane Diesel]

They have gotten better every year since Yzerman took over. Why do you consider this stalled?

I guess the 20/21 season never happened.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

If Yzerman can get Debrincat at a fair cost then the signnings are good (and lock him in to a contract)

Debrincat - Larkin - Raymond
Kubalik - Compher - Berggren
Rasmussen - Copp - Perron
Kostin - Kasper - Fischer

Walman - Seider
Maatta/Edvinsson - Ghostisbehere
Chiarot - Holl

Husso
Lyon/Reimer

This is a playoff team no doubt all while keeping Marco Kasper (8OA) , Sandin-Pellikka (17OA), Edvinsson (6OA) , Danielson (9OA) , Mazur, Lombardi, Soderblom, Buchelnikov, Wallinder etc

 

[PensandCaps]

But these are things you say about teams that are already good and looking to build out depth.

Why would a rebuilding team that needs to bottom out keep signing 4-5 free agents each off season trying to inch their way over the goal line into a wild card spot?

They're young and can be flipped for picks if they're not in the future plans.

 

[TS Quint]

But these are things you say about teams that are already good and looking to build out depth.

Why would a rebuilding team that needs to bottom out keep signing 4-5 free agents each off season trying to inch their way over the goal line into a wild card spot?

Wow, you’re really high on Holl making a big impact to think he’s going to put the team on his back and carry them to the playoffs.

 

[TCNorthstars]

I guess the 20/21 season never happened.

Come again?

 

[Shane Diesel]

Come again?

View attachment 726408

Huh. I guess I had forgotten the 19/20 Wings were historically bad and the 20/21 team was just bad. Got my seasons flipped. My mistake, I regret the error.

 

[HFpapi]

They have gotten better every year since Yzerman took over. Why do you consider this stalled?

Because I consider getting incrementally better year over year by signing a patch work of free agents while still not even being good enough to make playoffs much less compete for a cup to be counter productive.

They need to bottom out and draft top 5 not try to make a wild card spot by signing non-foundational players.

I consider this "rebuild" akin to trying to build an increasingly higher tower on an incomplete/poorly built foundation.

Tear it down and pour the foundation correctly.

Who are they truly building around? Seider of course, great piece.

After that, are we even sure Raymond is a even top line winger, much less franchise winger, yet? Beyond that nothing that looks foundational. Solid yes, franchise, no.

 

[jkutswings]

Top 10 picks should get you a good team. Don't blame the lottery.

Help me count all those Buffalo playoff wins during that rebuild, teardown, and second rebuild.

I'll take my chances with Yzerman, even if I don't agree with every move he makes.

 

[HFpapi]

They're young and can be flipped for picks if they're not in the future plans.

I don't think there's going to be a long line for Compher at 5x5 or Holl at 3x3.5

 

[HFpapi]

Wow, you’re really high on Holl making a big impact to think he’s going to put the team on his back and carry them to the playoffs.

Compher, Holl, Perron, Ghotshisbehere, Copp, Kostin, Chiarot all signed as FA's in the past two windows. All over paid and multi year.

Then they don't even give a young guy with skill like Yamamoto a shot but rather waste cap space buying him out and waive a former 6th overall who is still young.

Give them minutes to see if there's something there and if they really suck, good. You're rebuilding, you want to suck

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

I don't think there's going to be a long line for Compher at 5x5 or Holl at 3x3.5

They dont have 3 - 11 plus million players on their team so 3.5 million maybe alot to someone bottoming out in the first 2 rounds every year but not to a team not close to a title. They have one 8 plus million player, next highest is 5.1? Stevie hasnt done anything crippling. Didnt like compher or holl signings but 3 and 5 years are nothing deals especially when ur trying to raise the compete level of young players.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Compher, Holl, Perron, Ghotshisbehere, Copp, Kostin, Chiarot all signed as FA's in the past two windows. All over paid and multi year.

Then they don't even give a young guy with skill like Yamamoto a shot but rather waste cap space buying him out and waive a former 6th overall who is still young.

Give them minutes to see if there's something there and if they really suck, good. You're rebuilding, you want to suck

That’s some bad GMing right there.

 

[HFpapi]

They dont have 3 - 11 plus million players on their team so 3.5 million maybe alot to someone bottoming out in the first 2 rounds every year but not to a team not close to a title. They have one 8 plus million player, next highest is 5.1? Stevie hasnt done anything crippling. Didnt like compher or holl signings but 3 and 5 years are nothing deals especially when ur trying to raise the compete level of young players.

It's not even about them being "crippling" moves or anything I just think they are truly puzzling moves that don't indicate any direction or conviction in a course of action.

I don't think Steve has a single clue what kind of team he's trying to build right now or what direction he wants to go. I genuinely think he's just winging it now and signing what he can for the sake of it.

Like are they trying to bottom out and draft top 5? Do they want to be a wild card team? These moves put them smack dab in the middle of those options and are probably moves that prevent them from being either. They are just perfectly mediocre with no discernible core.

Why would a team in Detroit's position pay to get rid of a 24 year old Yamamoto with a 20 goal season under his belt when they could have just given him top 6 minutes and see what happens?

Why didn't they give a roster spot to a 24 year old former 6th overall pick with at least a modicum of potential rather than signing random free agents with zero potential to eat those minutes?