Proposal: Your LHD for Trouba

[zcaptain]

If Tanev was a LHD, I'd do a straight up deal, possibly even add a little. But a first on top of Trouba is horrible.

Tanev + Hansen 50% for Trouba + 2017 1st

OR

Tanev + Hansen + 2018 2nd for Trouba + 2017 1st

OR

Tanev + Hansen for Trouba + 2017 2nd + 2018 2nd

Not all equal, but looking for a deal to be made......Hansen gives one of the best multi line players in the league for cheap......TANEV the best shut down DMan in the league

We are in rebuild.....you guys are close, with all those young guys...a little veteran assistance wouldn't Hurt!

 

[wintersej]

Difference is that when you look at scoring chances allowed per 60, Gardiner is right smack between Jack Johnson and Kris Russel while Trouba is between Greene and Hjarlmasson. Gardiner drives possession well and keeps the puck out of the zone... but when its in the zone he isn't very good. And while I would be sympathetic to citing team affects here in many cases, the team defense difference between TOR and WPG isn't substantial and, if anything, it favors Toronto under Babcock.


edit:

I hate three things about HERO charts.

1) Zone Starts and QoC and QoT matter... they ain't part of this
2) Rel Corsi is an extremely flawed stat because it ignores the usage patterns above, and punishes people who play on good teams... even if they never play with the other good players
3) While tracking shot quality is hard, and for many players might turn out to be statistical noise, it isn't always. Like in this case.

 

[Maukkis]

Tanev + Hansen 50% for Trouba + 2017 1st

OR

Tanev + Hansen + 2018 2nd for Trouba + 2017 1st

OR

Tanev + Hansen for Trouba + 2017 2nd + 2018 2nd

Not all equal, but looking for a deal to be made......Hansen gives one of the best multi line players in the league for cheap......TANEV the best shut down DMan in the league

We are in rebuild.....you guys are close, with all those young guys...a little veteran assistance wouldn't Hurt!

We are not giving anything of value for Hansen. We have enough forwards and then some. And as I said, Tanev is not a LHD, so he won't work purely because of that. We aren't a good match.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Interesting; based on the title I expected to see a wide range of teams involved in the discussions. But instead it's mainly focused around the same conversations that have been had for weeks (months) about the same teams and players.

Sadly most of that involves tearing down other players to prove a point. The Trouba PHX thread is the best example of a level headed civil discussion I've seen in a while.

The main problem with bashing Trouba's value is that it's at the same time that you're hypothetically getting him to play on your team (and as many non Jets fans have written) to play top pairing for the next 10 years.

Fans are simple creatures... we all want a bargain / deal and we all want the other team to over pay. Hence why these discussions border on insanity...

 

[Ola]

Interesting; based on the title I expected to see a wide range of teams involved in the discussions. But instead it's mainly focused around the same conversations that have been had for weeks (months) about the same teams and players.

Sadly most of that involves tearing down other players to prove a point. The Trouba PHX thread is the best example of a level headed civil discussion I've seen in a while.

The main problem with bashing Trouba's value is that it's at the same time that you're hypothetically getting him to play on your team (and as many non Jets fans have written) to play top pairing for the next 10 years.

Fans are simple creatures... we all want a bargain / deal and we all want the other team to over pay. Hence why these discussions border on insanity...

Agreed, it don't have to be that way though. It becomes about competing. The only value a player has is the one that gives these kids "bragging rights". A little "dent" in a player that can be used in a pissing match with the player involved will hurt his value at this place tremendously, OTOH if a player has no objective dent (age, stat, history etc) his value is tremendously high. How a player plays the game of hockey don't matter much if at all...

Trouba has great potential, hands down. To get him you have to pay for it.

 

[Sweoilers]

Tanev + Hansen 50% for Trouba + 2017 1st

OR

Tanev + Hansen + 2018 2nd for Trouba + 2017 1st

OR

Tanev + Hansen for Trouba + 2017 2nd + 2018 2nd

Not all equal, but looking for a deal to be made......Hansen gives one of the best multi line players in the league for cheap......TANEV the best shut down DMan in the league

We are in rebuild.....you guys are close, with all those young guys...a little veteran assistance wouldn't Hurt!

He is a good shut down Dman but not the best in the league. Vlasic, Hjalmarsson are two who are way better and there is arguments that there is possibly 10 more but those two are to me crystal clear better than Tanev.

 

[Sundinisagod]

I honestly think Gardiner for him is a fair offer. Both #3D, one is a smooth skating PMD, the other a solid defensive D. Fits a need for the Jets, for the leafs it sucks to lose Gardiner, especially after his last year where he looked like top pairing D at times, but we have the LD depth to replace him.

Edit: Plus his contract favors the Jets after Trouba gets at least 2M more... Not sure I do it thinking it over now.

Lets not forget that they are 4 years apart in age. They might be close now, but Trouba has a lot more upside left.

Rielly - Trouba
Dermott - Zaitsev
Neilson - Carrick

I think that would eventually be a great d core for Toronto. That top pairing RHD is currently the missing link for Toronto.

 

[zcaptain]

He is a good shut down Dman but not the best in the league. Vlasic, Hjalmarsson are two who are way better and there is arguments that there is possibly 10 more but those two are to me crystal clear better than Tanev.

I get what you are saying, and I probably ended up over stating, but it is still a subjective evaluation. TANEV is still young, fully developed, starting DMan

Trouba, although Shiney, is still a 3rd line DMan, who has not pushed anyone out of his way. This may be why he is not being offered what he wants. That is not to say he is not close but merely that, as RHD go, he still has a way to go, and may never get all the way to his 1st pairing ceiling.

Vancouver can afford to take that chance, I am not sure Winnipeg should, especially when good offers are given. Now, I can appreciate that you may not like Hansen, but his talent alone should be valued some where around a 26 to 35 OA pick, maybe a little less, but no less than mid second, and that would probably come with a 4th or 5th round pick as well. But never the less, he has good talent, at a very good price.

I also get you have a lot of young forwards pushing for jobs, but Edmonton, I mean Winnipeg won't win just with youth.....haven't you learned anything from the aforementioned Oilers?

Vancouver adding a high 2nd rounder becomes almost over paying at this point......you love your team, as I do mine, but last year you were just ahead of us, and we had a injury riddled season. But take my word on this, players age quick now a days, and a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the Bush, meaning that your older players are still very good, but for how long, and although your youth is up and coming, it isn't proven yet.

In the end, I understand you may see it differently, and I respect that.........I am only pointing out that Vancouver is offering more than chump change, with my suggestion/offer

Cheers

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Lol at thinking the Jets would be adding a 1st round pick to a deal involving Tanev. Just LOL. Someone don't get it

 

[Rebels57]

Wonder if the Flyers and Jets could work something out around Del Zotto and Trouba. One team needs LHD. One team needs RHD.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Wonder if the Flyers and Jets could work something out around Del Zotto and Trouba. One team needs LHD. One team needs RHD.

Nope. Definitely not. Honestly unless Provorov or Sanheim plus Is involved I'd say very unlikely. Jets won't trade Trouba for a UFA to be. Not a chance

 

[Hunter368]

Lol at thinking the Jets would be adding a 1st round pick to a deal involving Tanev. Just LOL. Someone don't get it

No real interest in Tanev anyways.

 

[wintersej]

The problem with this thread is that there isn't a perfect LD version of Trouba for Trouba deal out there. So IF Trouba ends up being dealt, WPG fans are not going to get what they want. From there, it becomes very difficult to put together a deal, because WPG fans aren't at a place where they feel they HAVE to trade Trouba for the best offer (because, at this point, they don't) so we just spin in circles.

 

[Hunter368]

The problem with this thread is that there isn't a perfect LD version of Trouba for Trouba deal out there. So IF Trouba ends up being dealt, WPG fans are not going to get what they want. From there, it becomes very difficult to put together a deal, because WPG fans aren't at a place where they feel they HAVE to trade Trouba for the best offer (because, at this point, they don't) so we just spin in circles.

True, and non Jets fans are just starting to understand what we've said all summer. We don't want to trade him, we want him signed.

There is virtually no realistic trade involving Trouba where the Jets are as good or better after the trade.....

 

[big ape]

As an Oiler fan this is laughable bad for the Jets but also could blow up in the oilers face unless we know his contract demands .

RHD Trouba >>> LHD Prospect Nurse . Yakupov does nothing to make up the difference when Winnipeg does not need a forward .

The only way Nurse is worth Trouba is if he is demand 7 million + contract long term . He is a very good young D but he is not worth north of 7 million .

One other thing lets make this clear . I don't want to trade Nurse but wanting to keep him does not blind me to the fact Trouba has much more value . I also have not set limits on Nurse as some fans have base on his play last year . The kid is a beast . He improved by leaps and bounds ever year he was in the OHL . He was thru to the wolves last year because of injuries . He should have had a developmental year in the AHL last year with a chance to make the team this year in a shelter roll . I hate when people say he is lacking hockey IQ . Show me how you measure that ? Making rookie mistakes because you are trying to do too much is nothing new .

In no way am i saying Nurse is better or as valuable.But i really believe that Nurse would not be available ,as he is totally a Chia type player.He has a nasty game that we don't have anywhere on our blueline now or up coming.If were comparing nasty i take Nurse every day.Nurse also posses leadership,that we also lack.Not saying Trouba doesn't have these 2 qualities but I'm not offering Nurse and a big plus to obtain,not with the upside and qualities he has.The Jets fans want a NHLproven left d man.We only have Sekera that fits that bill,obviously a big plus is needed ,would a 1st do it ,if not what then.Hope there's no bashing of Sekera as i think he would fit in nicely on the Jets blue line but what is that plus.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Wonder if the Flyers and Jets could work something out around Del Zotto and Trouba. One team needs LHD. One team needs RHD.

Del Zotto

1) 1 year left
2) Misses a bunch of games
3) Which Del Zotto shows up? The #1 D-man version that Philly has been pimping or the Del Zotto that cleared waivers

The contract situation alone is enough to consider the thought laughable.

 

[Whileee]

True, and non Jets fans are just starting to understand what we've said all summer. We don't want to trade him, we want him signed.

There is virtually no realistic trade involving Trouba where the Jets are as good or better after the trade.....

There might be a realistic trade out there involving Trouba, but I'm pretty sure we won't find it on the HFB trade board.

 

[Rebels57]

Del Zotto

1) 1 year left
2) Misses a bunch of games
3) Which Del Zotto shows up? The #1 D-man version that Philly has been pimping or the Del Zotto that cleared waivers

The contract situation alone is enough to consider the thought laughable.

The 1 year left is a concern. BUT, he would be extended for less than what Trouba will get.

Injuries happen. Few dmen are impervious to them.

No one is "pimping Del Zotto as a #1 dman" but he brings a bit more offense than Trouba and made MASSIVE improvements defensively last season and did lead all Flyers dman in TOI. He's turned into a solid two-way defensemen. Clearing waivers a few years back doesn't change that. Philly would add in the deal too of course. Not saying a 1 for 1.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

The 1 year left is a concern. BUT, he would be extended for less than what Trouba will get.

Injuries happen. Few dmen are impervious to them.

No one is "pimping Del Zotto as a #1 dman" but he brings a bit more offense than Trouba and made MASSIVE improvements defensively last season and did lead all Flyers dman in TOI. He's turned into a solid two-way defensemen. Clearing waivers a few years back doesn't change that. Philly would add in the deal too of course. Not saying a 1 for 1.

He would get paid less than Trouba because he is a lesser d-man. Also there is no guarantee that he would sign with us. Not worth the risk at all.

Injuries do happen but he's missed 63 games in the past 3 seasons.

I wish I had the thread saved where there was talks about Provorov for Trouba. Del Zotto was talked about like he was robbed of the Norris.

 

[Rebels57]

He would get paid less than Trouba because he is a lesser d-man. Also there is no guarantee that he would sign with us. Not worth the risk at all.

Injuries do happen but he's missed 63 games in the past 3 seasons.

I wish I had the thread saved where there was talks about Provorov for Trouba. Del Zotto was talked about like he was robbed of the Norris.

Not all of those games missed were because of injury. I'm not sure on his 13-14 season, but in his 14-15 season most of those games were missed due to being healthy scratched by blockhead Craig Berube as he was still familiarizing himself with the Flyers. He solidified his spot by the end of the season and had a very solid 40 point pace. In 15-16, they had to shut him down after wrist surgery.

Well for one, I hope you don't find a thread mentioning Provorov for Trouba because that's a trade that will never take place lol. I seriously doubt any Flyers fan was claiming he played Norris calibre defense. That's absurd.

I hear you on the contract situation though. That alone makes it really difficult.

 

[trebendan]

The 1 year left is a concern. BUT, he would be extended for less than what Trouba will get.

Injuries happen. Few dmen are impervious to them.

No one is "pimping Del Zotto as a #1 dman" but he brings a bit more offense than Trouba and made MASSIVE improvements defensively last season and did lead all Flyers dman in TOI. He's turned into a solid two-way defensemen. Clearing waivers a few years back doesn't change that. Philly would add in the deal too of course. Not saying a 1 for 1.

What would the Flyers add? Would something like Trouba and Poolman (or Kostalek) for DelZotto and Sanheim work?

 

[supersonic jet]

I get what you are saying, and I probably ended up over stating, but it is still a subjective evaluation. TANEV is still young, fully developed, starting DMan

Trouba, although Shiney, is still a 3rd line DMan, who has not pushed anyone out of his way. This may be why he is not being offered what he wants. That is not to say he is not close but merely that, as RHD go, he still has a way to go, and may never get all the way to his 1st pairing ceiling.

Vancouver can afford to take that chance, I am not sure Winnipeg should, especially when good offers are given. Now, I can appreciate that you may not like Hansen, but his talent alone should be valued some where around a 26 to 35 OA pick, maybe a little less, but no less than mid second, and that would probably come with a 4th or 5th round pick as well. But never the less, he has good talent, at a very good price.

I also get you have a lot of young forwards pushing for jobs, but Edmonton, I mean Winnipeg won't win just with youth.....haven't you learned anything from the aforementioned Oilers?

Vancouver adding a high 2nd rounder becomes almost over paying at this point......you love your team, as I do mine, but last year you were just ahead of us, and we had a injury riddled season. But take my word on this, players age quick now a days, and a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the Bush, meaning that your older players are still very good, but for how long, and although your youth is up and coming, it isn't proven yet.

In the end, I understand you may see it differently, and I respect that.........I am only pointing out that Vancouver is offering more than chump change, with my suggestion/offer

Cheers

If you knew that Buff and Meyers were not good enough to play with Stuart to cover for his inadequate play, and Trouba is the only one that can then you would call him a third pairing.

This yr he will be playing Trouba on the first pairing with Buff because he is the the who is the most talented to play LD of the RD.

I guess by how you rate things that makes him a 1d this Yr. He still won't get power play because Laine will be fourth forward on power play, but he will be the rock on the penalty kill.

We need to sign this guy now!

 

[Hunter368]

There might be a realistic trade out there involving Trouba, but I'm pretty sure we won't find it on the HFB trade board.

Agreed.

Most offered here is poor fit or garbage.

 

[Peggy]

rangers probably laugh at this. Trouba + Connor would be closer

How serious are you? Trouba plus Connor? Lol

 

[Peggy]

There might be a realistic trade out there involving Trouba, but I'm pretty sure we won't find it on the HFB trade board.

That's because everyone wants to rip eachother off.